RE: How ready are you for Spanish?

RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (Full Version)

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MasterKalif -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 9:41:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong It makes me laugh when the illegals protest and hold signs for "Europeans" to go home. If I recall history correctly.. Wasn’t it the Spanish the first hit Central America, plundering their gold and bringing European diseases to the natives of the new world? Wasn't it they who inbred with the Indians, forced their missionaries on them and killed the Indians if they didn't convert... they did the same in California. If you look at poor Miami, it's not really the attraction it used to be. Sure, come to America... but learn how WE live. Most just move Mexico and Cuba with them with no intention of even trying to better themselves. You can't learn the culture if you don't even try. If the original way of living is so good... why bother. How long has Mexico been in existence? Why hasn't the creature comforts been established. like toilets that work.. water fit to drink? No.. they only think they have to do is sneak in and set up roadside tamale stands and then wonder why they get passed over.. Had they bothered to learn about American culture..they would know.. it's about food purity. There are guidelines for everything we consume here. Unless we know you.. we won't buy from you. To do so is at a risk. I was shocked when I was in a doctor's office and there was one older lady sitting quietly in the lobby. A younger woman rushes in and accosts the receptionist that she was astounded that there were NO Spanish speaking employees present. Excuse me.. daughter.. get off your fat ass and ACCOMPANY your mother to where she needs to be instead of blaming everyone else for the situation. The patient had no way of communicating with the office. It's attitudes like this that make me pull back my own welcome mat. I've given it some serious thought.. I find I'm in no way a racist. I could give a damn about the color the color of somene's skin..but I will call myself a "Culturist". There are some cultures I just cannot relate to and I live where I do because this is where I prefer to live. In the culture I was raised in. If you are not "wrong".. then neither am I. I'm done with this tread.. all it's done is make me even more isolationist. I've decided to speak my mind. And I'm not the only one who is done choking down this BS situation. I'd rather be a Biggot..than a smiling hypocrite. BTW.. Mandarin Chinese is the most widely spoken language in the world. LotusSong, to say the very least for such a nice lady, I didnt expect such a post from you....I don't understand what you mean over the "European" issue....who is saying Europeans need to go home? huh? Mexico has been in existence I believe since 1821 becoming an Empire under Emperor Iturbide...then turned into a republic. I think you will find it that if you go to Mexico you will find those "creature comforts" such as toilets, and drinking water, surely you don't believe these basic things are only known in the USA?! I think by "food purity" you mean more on health standards on how to produce food or sell or package food, which I think you might be right. You also have to keep in mind you are not receiving the "best" quality of immigrants as by and large the Mexican immigrant who is willing to risk everything even his or her life to come to the US come mostly from peasant stock, which means they lack education and those standards. In any case, many at least are willing to work hard to better themselves. The US in my opinion also does little to attract and maintain those foreigners who study in US universities and who actually have degrees....they set up so many obstacles, in the end it is easier to work and live elsewhere. As for your story at the doctors, I agree with you that the person was in wrong "demanding" someone that speaks Spanish....I on the other hand when I am with my mother, I do as the translator and have no issue with this....maybe I should mention my mother is not a US citizen and does not live here, but if she did, she would have been fluent after a year. It is ok to be "culturlist" but don't blast other societies simply based on some wrong pre-conceived notions on them. I also think immigration should be slowed down, have the immigrants incorporate themselves, a sort of acculturation while maintaining aspects of their own native culture.

juliaoceania -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 10:27:54 AM)
It has to be signed into law by our Chief Chimp I guess the republican party can say goodbye to that Hispanic vote they have been furiously courting.. I guess the upcoming election makes for some good fear mongering, scapegoating, and hate rhetoric.. and the sheeple hobble along.,..Next they will come up with a Final Solution.. but don't worry Lotus, you are blonde and blue eyed!

NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 11:38:32 AM)
Seeks, Yes, there is an ugly side to Islam. The leader of the Council of British Muslims has been quoted as making homophobic comments. It is not a stance I agree with and I personally think this stance let's him (and people who think like him) down. However, what exactly are you saying here? That because there is a homophobic aspect to Islam we shoud treat all muslims as terrorists? If so, by extension, we should be treating all christians as terrorists. I've said this before on here and I will say it again - I have been to an area in the Middle East where the people are far more liberal towards homosexuality than us British are so it's all swings and roundabouts. Can you list me these jobs "where only Asians can apply"? It's news to me that such jobs exist. Regards

Gauge -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 12:07:02 PM)
This is a Fast Reply: I have no problem with Spanish speaking people reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in Spanish. Our young men and women should recite it right along with them... in Spanish. With that said, I will now degenerate into what some will call a racist and bigoted and narrow point of view. The country's education system cranks out kids that cannot read or write in English above approximately an 8th grade level. Yet there is this persuasive argument that they should learn a second language (something I am all for by the way). Folks, cultural diversity means very little when you cannot communicate in any language without any amount of clarity or proficiency. Quite frankly, this is America and if we cannot teach our kids to read and write in its predominant language, how do other people expect that they will fare any better in another language? I have nothing against other cultures, races, creeds, religions, nationalities and so on. I cannot endorse a two language educational requirement when our school system is so sub-par. We do shoot ourselves in the foot because some Americans are single minded and outright refuse to see the benefit to learning a foreign language. But we are so low on the food chain with respect to education in comparison to other countries. Americans seem to be OK with this idea and we will reap the whirlwind of our own apathy. Immigrants to the United States should learn English, period. You want to live here, try your best to fit in to our way of life. If I would choose another country to live in, I would certainly put every effort I could into learning the native language. I only expect immigrants to do what I would do if the roles were reversed. I could pontificate on education and foreign languages all day but frankly this topic (such as it is) has really worn thin with me. I am embarrassed with the flag waving yahoos that are so patriotic that they pee red, white and blue. We aren't the only country in the world... better get used to that idea.

LotusSong -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 12:17:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterKalif LotusSong, to say the very least for such a nice lady, I didnt expect such a post from you....I don't understand what you mean over the "European" issue....who is saying Europeans need to go home? huh? Mexico has been in existence I believe since 1821 becoming an Empire under Emperor Iturbide...then turned into a republic. I think you will find it that if you go to Mexico you will find those "creature comforts" such as toilets, and drinking water, surely you don't believe these basic things are only known in the USA?! There is town in Southern California that is 95% illegal immigrants and it has declared itself a sanctuary. I couldn't pull up the CNN article on it but if anyone had seen the segement a couple days ago.. please chime in here. They decided to hold a protest in which the "Europeans Go Home" was the theme and their protest signs. This is what I'm referring to. I'm insulted. I have a right to be. Yes, my grandparents immigrated here. They busted their asses and faced prejudice because they were simply "different". They changed their religion and language. They learned HOW the system worked and survived. My mother and her sister had no special assistance to learn English. What they picked up, they taught their parents. They were dumped into the system at 7 yrs old... and it was sink or swim. My Aunt became a professor of business law at San Diego University. One of my great uncles was found hung in his 5’ basement with stab wounds in his back (he was 6’ by the way) of an apparent suicide. A hate crime. Am I going to say all the Steel Workers of NE Ohio OWE me something because they took a family member away? Nope... suck it up and move on. Just do your best and don’t expect anything from anybody was the mode of the day. And hey, add being white European immigrant to it... “suck HARD”. I’ve never taken into account who was what color or nationality until all this PC crappola.. I didn’t, because it never was an issue. I treated folks the way I wanted to be treated. Now because someone might act like a jerk.. I have to be careful to check what color and nationality they are.. in case it may be their culture to BE a jerk. Heads up people! I’m German-Hungarian! I’m a Natzi with a mean nutroll.. I demand respect or I’m sanctioning the USA from any further goulash shipments! If THIS doesn’t wake you up.. the sour cream is next! I AM a nice person. I’m just getting VERY tired of it all. You all know how emotional we Hungarians get. You are just going to have to make allowances. It's our culture. To not do so, would cause us extreme emotional distress.

popeye1250 -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 12:23:21 PM)
Lotus, we need to outlaw that "PC" crap. And if you're in this country illegally if you're 80 years old or two years old GET THE FUCK OUT!

LotusSong -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 12:52:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Lotus, we need to outlaw that "PC" crap. And if you're in this country illegally if you're 80 years old or two years old GET THE FUCK OUT! or GET legal.

LadyEllen -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 1:11:25 PM)
Hi All Back from holiday/vacation now, so watch out LOL! First of all, I have no problem with immigration, people speaking any language they like, eating as they please, practising any faith or none as they choose, being of whatever ethnicity and otherwise living as they will - providing that they accept that as newcomers it is they who must adjust to my country and culture, not the other way around. They dont have to lose that which makes them who they are, but they do have to integrate just as I would have to should I go to live in Japan for instance. In the UK, we have had for the past forty odd years this idea of a multi-cultural society. The end result of this policy is now being seen for the disaster it is - even the head of the Commission for Racial Equality, (an Afro-Caribbean), recently said so. We have sizeable ghettos in our towns and cities which are exclusively inhabited by ethnic/cultural groups, and which effectively could be transposed to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or the Caribbean (as applicable) without them seeming at all out of place there. The newcomers have not integrated at all, instead reproducing under official government policy their countries and cultures of origin. This is understandable of course - birds of a feather, and all that, but it has produced a situation where there is no need to integrate, since they have their own facilities all there within their ghetto, and since when the outside authorities must deal with them, the authorities provide their interventions in the language of the ghetto out of respect for its culture. Meanwhile, the native population has been told continuously that it must celebrate multi-cultural values, whilst at the same time its culture has been equally continuously downplayed - I'm English, one of the only ethnic group in the UK which has no culture since there is no law or regulation which provides for its maintenance and protection. Why does this matter? It matters because we are meant to be a nation. For a nation to exist and prosper, those who belong to it must share in a common identity of some sort - and in the UK we do not have this, instead we are just a bunch of groups each with its own identity. We all inhabit the same islands, but that is it. We do not share a single language, religion or culture. We all live under UK law, although that varies between England and Wales, Scotland and N Ireland, quite apart from how the law seems better able to apply to some rather than others. We engage in international sports, yet not everyone will choose a British team for their support. Not even the Queen provides a unifying force any more, since there are higher loyalties in many groups. Its fine and natural for us all to be different, and equally fine and natural for us to prefer the company of our own, but multi-culturalism has led to a situation of simmering frustration, jealousies, ignorance of one another, fear and hatred - on every side; not a recipe for a happy nation. E

Level -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 1:17:58 PM)
Welcome back, Ellen. Good post.

seeksfemslave -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 1:45:24 PM)
Northen Gent asks me to tell him jobs for which Asians only may apply because he has never heard of them. Well thats the 3rd thing in this debate you have never heard of NG. When the anti discrimination law was passed in the 70's 80's I forget when, provision was made for just such exemptions in favour of the immigrant minorities. The only job I can think of, off the top of my head is....wait for it...stress counciller for Asian women...they are stressed because they dont like the UK much, cant speak English, husband wont let them them go out, and their daughters wont do what they are told. The Brit taxpayer pays. AGAIN. If the daughter strays too far the father and her brothers murder her ! Over the years it has been quite common to see a job advertised for minorities ONLY with the caveat...this advert is exempt by virtue of secX from the anti discrimination act of 19xx. I wouldn't mind betting there will be one in this Wednesday's Guardian. Come to think of it I haven't seen such ads. recently, Bet the dopey PC Liberals have realised how counterproductive it was. he he he Lady Ellen: as for Trevor Phillips he is nothing but an unprincipled beaurocrat riding the anti racist bandwagon , drawing 100k salary, who will say absoluteley anything. Did you know that the Commision for Racial Equality, Philips is the head, has itself been prosecuted for racial discrimination. Remember when Philipps got that Afro into a public school, the kid got expelled within a very short time. Remember that disastrous advertising campaign that implied that all whites were racist. Got withdrawn within a few weeks and what happened to that ad that showed the naked black athelete that looked as though he was squatting to take cr**. Now we have got the spectre of Positive Discrimination riding over the horizon. What a Larf !

pinkee -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 1:58:19 PM)
i just cannot understand how people can get so exercised over this; so what if it becomes necessary to learn a bit of spanish? How is this an issue worth debating? pinkee

LotusSong -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:11:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinkee i just cannot understand how people can get so exercised over this; so what if it becomes necessary to learn a bit of spanish? How is this an issue worth debating? pinkee So what if THEY have to learn a little bit of English. How is this issue worth debating? Think about it.. all our Street signs are in ENGLISH. How many of them immediately try to drive a taxi when they come here? Maybe they may even get sick and need to read the directions on a bottle of medicine?

Estring -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:57:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Hi All Back from holiday/vacation now, so watch out LOL! First of all, I have no problem with immigration, people speaking any language they like, eating as they please, practising any faith or none as they choose, being of whatever ethnicity and otherwise living as they will - providing that they accept that as newcomers it is they who must adjust to my country and culture, not the other way around. They dont have to lose that which makes them who they are, but they do have to integrate just as I would have to should I go to live in Japan for instance. In the UK, we have had for the past forty odd years this idea of a multi-cultural society. The end result of this policy is now being seen for the disaster it is - even the head of the Commission for Racial Equality, (an Afro-Caribbean), recently said so. We have sizeable ghettos in our towns and cities which are exclusively inhabited by ethnic/cultural groups, and which effectively could be transposed to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or the Caribbean (as applicable) without them seeming at all out of place there. The newcomers have not integrated at all, instead reproducing under official government policy their countries and cultures of origin. This is understandable of course - birds of a feather, and all that, but it has produced a situation where there is no need to integrate, since they have their own facilities all there within their ghetto, and since when the outside authorities must deal with them, the authorities provide their interventions in the language of the ghetto out of respect for its culture. Meanwhile, the native population has been told continuously that it must celebrate multi-cultural values, whilst at the same time its culture has been equally continuously downplayed - I'm English, one of the only ethnic group in the UK which has no culture since there is no law or regulation which provides for its maintenance and protection. Why does this matter? It matters because we are meant to be a nation. For a nation to exist and prosper, those who belong to it must share in a common identity of some sort - and in the UK we do not have this, instead we are just a bunch of groups each with its own identity. We all inhabit the same islands, but that is it. We do not share a single language, religion or culture. We all live under UK law, although that varies between England and Wales, Scotland and N Ireland, quite apart from how the law seems better able to apply to some rather than others. We engage in international sports, yet not everyone will choose a British team for their support. Not even the Queen provides a unifying force any more, since there are higher loyalties in many groups. Its fine and natural for us all to be different, and equally fine and natural for us to prefer the company of our own, but multi-culturalism has led to a situation of simmering frustration, jealousies, ignorance of one another, fear and hatred - on every side; not a recipe for a happy nation. E This is one of the best posts I have seen on here. I hope people from the US here on CM read it and see that we are heading down a similar path. There is such a thing as an American culture. Many don't acknowledge that, but it is true. And one of the unifying forces of the culture is language. Specifically in the US, the english language. It is not racist to expect that if you live here, you should learn to speak english. And it is not racist to expect that if you live here, you adapt to this culture, not the other way around. And before anyone calls me a racist, I am of Mexican heritage. But I am an American first. Not Mexican-American. American.

NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/4/2006 12:33:06 PM)
LadyE, Welcome back from Benidorm :-) Now, where do I start with your post..... 1) Why should a newcomer have to adjust to you and your country and what do you mean by adjust? What exactly would you do in Japan that others haven't done here? 2) Can you please explain what is so disastrous about multi-cutural Britain? We have always had ghettos in this country (working-class white ghettos all over Britian) - ghettos are not confined to skin colour (my hope is that you are not associating ghettos with skin colour because the term ghetto has negative connotations and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt). We have so many different cultures here, different attitudes, different food, different religions, different music, different options - difference is not to be feared. 3) English have no culture? Pub culture, bands, sport - the bedrock of English culture for centuries - do you see this being eroded? I don't. Are you saying you no longer involve yourself in English pursuits? Do you know anyone who suddenly considers themselves not English simply because immigrants come here? 4) No one has ever told me I must celebrate multi-cultural values. No one. Who is forcing this upon you? 5) Of course we have a shared indentity. We're a tolerant people who largely just want to get on with our lives, have a beer down the pub and make the best of things we can. Can you give me an example of a country that you consider not to be multi-cultural and believe this country to have a stonger sense of identity than British people? Part of the reason why we don't seem to have a stroing identity is because we're not the sort of people who run around the streets waving flags like complete dim-wits. As said, by and large, we're tolerant and have a live and let live attitude - it's not our style to bang on about Britishness and make a big deal of it - much more important things in life. 6) lol at the Queen providing a unifying force. She is part of an establishment that has shat all over the British working class since the year dot. If that's unifying you can keep it. 7) Multi-culturalism has not led to frustration and jealousy. It is the narrow-minded bigotry and lack of education that has led to these things. 8) Come on LadyEllen, surely you can rise above this dim-witted view of difference? Regards

seeksfemslave -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/4/2006 12:45:17 PM)
Northern Gent...how did the Brits get to be so perfect.....thats what I would like to know. Have a look back at the post where I listed all those countries where muti culturalism has lead to murder and and mayhem. I think you must have have got an honours degree in wishful thinking at that Chorley academy for underachievers you attended. Are you the principal there now ? Dont keep posting idealistic empty phrases, address the criticisms that come your way !

meatcleaver -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/4/2006 12:45:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent 1) Why should a newcomer have to adjust to you and your country and what do you mean by adjust? What exactly would you do in Japan that others haven't done here? As someone who has lived in three other countries long enough to pick up three languages at varying degrees of success, I would say it is encumbant on a newcomer to adjust to the country they decide ot live, if only out of self interest. I would think it is both arrogant and ignorant of me to expect people of another country who I have gone to live among to adjust to me. I have no right to expect it. If I can't be bothered to learn the language of the people I live amongst then I have no right to expect to find anything but the most lowly work where language is not an issue. The problem is mine not the host populations.

NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/4/2006 12:49:16 PM)
So who exactly isn't learning the language here?

seeksfemslave -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/4/2006 12:52:43 PM)
NG do you actually live in the UK? Point 6 in your post above demonstrates that you can recognise a failure of multiculturalism when its white on white. Why is that then ? Black v white and you go all wibbly wobbly. Why is that then ? You wait till you visit a doctor and you have dificulty understanding each other. Put on a parachute and come down out of the clouds for xxxxxx sake

meatcleaver -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/4/2006 12:57:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave NG do you actually live in the UK? Ditto. I actually went to the housing office in East Ham, Newham (E London) in the nineties when I lived there. There were three workers on the counter, none could speak English so my wife at the time deciding she had wasted her time learning English spoke French. They still din't understand her.

NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/4/2006 12:58:21 PM)
Seeks, If you have a fact to post that contradicts points 1 to 8 then be my guest. Regards

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