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Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 8/31/2006 5:17:07 PM

knees2you

Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline

To me and my Wife,
minimum wage is appauling!

Somebody ought to be doing this~~~~~~~~> to the
Government!

Disability is just as bad.

If it does end, when and how much suffering
will we as people have to go thru?

Any Solutions? Ones that will work?

Sincerely, Ant & Lilbecque

Post #: 1

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 8/31/2006 9:44:18 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Get skills.

I know it is hard in the US, but you didn't say.

T

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 2

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 3:07:11 PM

Shalyn

Posts: 55
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: TN
Status: offline

I say make the best with what you can. I waitress and my pay is $2.16/hr but with the tips I can make, it comes out more than minimum wage. Getting skills, alot of times, is easier said than done. We all have our reasons as to why we dont have a great paying job. Mine is simple, baby in the 11th grade, didnt finish school and I never went back to further my education. And I know Im not the only one here who did not finish school. Im not complaining tho, Im doing the best I can with what I have and I think thats what we should all do :)

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 3

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 3:22:30 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

Just think - raise minimum wage, companies pay more, raise prices.

The lowest incomes will always be lowest, by definition. (Think on that one)

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer is a clichee by now. (Think on that one, too)

What you consider necessity, others consider luxury. (TOO MUCH THINKING! AAAH!)

Yeah, it sucks, but it always has and always will, until someone finds a way to cure most humans of the urge to look out only for themselves.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to Shalyn)

Post #: 4

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 3:39:19 PM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shalyn

I say make the best with what you can. I waitress and my pay is $2.16/hr but with the tips I can make, it comes out more than minimum wage. Getting skills, alot of times, is easier said than done. We all have our reasons as to why we dont have a great paying job. Mine is simple, baby in the 11th grade, didnt finish school and I never went back to further my education. And I know Im not the only one here who did not finish school. Im not complaining tho, Im doing the best I can with what I have and I think thats what we should all do :)

Hey, at least you are not sitting home on your laurels just sipping off foodstamps and welfare. You are real, and you are making an effort, and this is fine. You have time ahead to begin again...it is about begining again and again...and not stagnate for too long waisting precious time. Try to live with out regrets, help others along the journey, while careful of stepping on yet others to get there quicker (not worth it really), and keep on going, for it comes back to you just when ya need it the most. :). Law of attraction in play here :)

(in reply to Shalyn)

Post #: 5

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 3:51:52 PM

WyrdRich

Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji
Yeah, it sucks, but it always has and always will, until someone finds a way to cure most humans of the urge to look out only for themselves.
benji

You're almost to an AMEN benji. Add a way to cure people who expect to have all the goodies I do without working as hard as I do and you are there.

And yes, it is time to raise the bottom rung on the ladder.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 6

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 4:05:33 PM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

And yes, it is time to raise the bottom rung on the ladder.

You just said a mouthful and then some....

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 7

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 4:32:59 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

And yes, it is time to raise the bottom rung on the ladder.

But if you raise the bottom rung, you raise the whole ladder, no?

Unless you lift it entirely by the bottom rung, in which case the whole ladder will eventually tip.

Once again, I have proven that I can take any analogy and point out that it sucks.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 8

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 5:03:25 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

Benji,
But you are forgetting a big bottom rung, the unreported or cash wages. Another reason why those in the lower ecconomic categories should be adamant against the illegal alien workforce. When you can hire someone to work for $2.50/hour cash why pay $5.25/hour to the employee and another 30% of that to the government in tax contributions? There are many undervalued jobs because of this ladder rung. The minimum wage is 2 or 3 steps up from the bottom.

Regarding raising it, it won't increase anyone's cash. The price will go up "just because" the same way gas in the tank of a gas stations goes up because of the latest middle east conflict. There will be more people unemployed because the budget for minimum wage businesses won't increase. In other words if there are 3 positions for a $5.25 wage budgeted and minimum wage goes to 10.50, there will only be 2 positions available, or there will be fewer hours available to make up the difference.

Raising minimum wage is a con. The people effected will be affected negatively. But it's a great political buzzword.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 9

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 5:18:09 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Supply and demand.

I heard of a fast food place paying double the minimum wage to entry level employees, why ? There were plenty of jobs and they couldn't get anyone to work for the minimum wage.

This was years ago and I don't remember exactly where is was, but I would guess there was alot of construction work or something. Construction labor used to pay well, and didn't reuire much other than physical strength and common sense. With all this going on a fast food joint can make a healthy profit even paying more wages.

First thing to do is get a GED (according to Chris Rock, a good enough diploma). There are many many subidised programs for job training. I'm sure it is hard to make the time, but if you don't it'll be too late.

The way I see it, minimum wage jobs are for kids and the intellectually challenged.

I see commercials all the time for training to work as a medical assistant, or in records. There are others as well.

As companies move offshore, it will be more and more difficult to get decdent factory jobs, that leaves the service industry, and they are going to outsource as much of that offshore as possible.

Here's another question, do you have a relatively clean driver's license ? That is worth t least $10-12 an hour, more if you have to lift things, or keep the books supplying vendors etc. If you know your city really well you could drive a taxi. So many people get so many tickets and DUIs and shit these days, a clean driver's license is indeed an asset.

Even if you are a really good waiter or waitress you can go to a more upscale place and make more money. If you saw the TV today you probably heard about the $10,000 tip left on a $26 bill. That person was very stupid to announce it to the world though, I would have stuck it in my pocket rather than have to pay tax on it. Of course it may have been on a credit card, or even a check so maybe I'm off base here.

I know a guy who did valet parking for awhile, in addition to his regular job. Most nights he wound up with like $200. He is a dropout.

T

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 10

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 5:45:15 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

I firmly believe that any individual who wants to make more than minimum wage, can do so. It may not be easy, but there is always a way. And before anyone says, "Yeah, but I....," there may be an exception or two, but you are not one.

However, the entire class of minimum wagers will never move up. If I make above minimum wage, I am taking someone else's job, and leaving a minimum wage job open - some kid fresh out of school will have to go to McDonalds instead. lol

As to your comments, Mercnbeth, I wholeheartedly agree.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 11

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 7:00:06 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Wrap your heads around this, US wages have been flat since somewhere between 1967-1973, depending on what figures you use.

Kinda puts it all into perspective, doesn't it.

Combine that with the fact that wage earners did not have to pay income taxes as it was considered immoral to tax people who worked for their money.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 12

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 7:03:11 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

I firmly believe that any individual who wants to make more than minimum wage, can do so. It may not be easy, but there is always a way. And before anyone says, "Yeah, but I....," there may be an exception or two, but you are not one.

I firmly believe everyone can be President of the US of A. Well in theory its possible but we all know its a fucking fantasy. The same with minimal wage. There will always be a large percentage of people on it, maybe not always the same people.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 13

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 7:06:20 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

As I said in the next paragraph, each person who moves up leaves one person behind him in his old job, so the number of people getting minimum wage doesn't change. However, an individual can move up if he wants to.

And as I said in an earlier post, the minimum wage will always be the minimum wage. Even if you raise it, it will be the minimum.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 14

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 7:23:55 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

As I said in the next paragraph, each person who moves up leaves one person behind him in his old job, so the number of people getting minimum wage doesn't change. However, an individual can move up if he wants to.

And as I said in an earlier post, the minimum wage will always be the minimum wage. Even if you raise it, it will be the minimum.

The fact that there will always be a large percentage on minimum wage is surely a reason why it should be living wage. Creating social problems through poverty costs the economy more than having a higher minimum wage. Or at least that is what many studies in Europe showed. The fact that someone who is working can claim tax credits or social benefits means the taxpayer is subsidizing work and effectively keeping a private business afloat through welfare.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 15

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 7:39:20 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

See various posts on reasons not to raise minimum wage.

The only way to have minimum wage be a living wage is for those making that amount to lower their expectations.

One thing people have to understand is that a corporation never carries the cost of anything. It always gets passed on to the consumer. Raise minimum wage, they raise prices. Then you need to raise minimum wage again.

I can see that an adjustment may be necessary from time to time, but to change it radically is just kinda stupid.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 16

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 7:53:15 PM

BlueHnS

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline

Something else to think about. If the minimum wage is raised as the rate ($ amount) of qualifying deductions decreases, then who's really getting a raise?

_____________________________

Questions are dangerous, for they have answers. ~ Kushiel's Dart
I think I'm going to get off. ~ The Poet

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 17

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 7:58:57 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

That took me a while to figure out, mostly because I don't know my tax lingo. But once I got through that, I realized it's really the Tribbles.

Damn furballs.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 18

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 8:04:09 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

It seems to me that those people in favour of a low minimum wage would prefer slavery to be re-established.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 19

RE: Minimum Rage! opps Wage, dangit Wage... - 9/1/2006 8:10:24 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

First sign of a degenerated thread - demonization of the opposite side of the debate.

There is a basic principle I learned in management school - money doesn't motivate. Change in money motivates short term, but no matter how much people make, it will not be enough.

People will always look up to others who have more and be envious. That energy would be better spent on bettering oneself, having a good attitude at work, and getting promoted. Because that's what happens to good people. They move up.

Now, care to counter my last point about minimum wage raises affecting prices of goods?

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 20

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