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RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 10:09:36 AM   
alovelylady4U


Posts: 67
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: leeli
Status: offline 		 i  understand completely. i have had 2 seperate Trainers and yes in a way i did become attached to Them both. They are so special to me and always will be.
 
One i really considered staying in this area so i would be close. Yet - like you- i know i wanted to be with a D/M  i could bond with and grow to love and trust to the n-th degree. Trainers are more of a "weekend kink" type. (i have come to realize there are a million levels of this lifestyle.) like you-i am also ISO a 24/7, RT, with a D/M and possibly.... and i could go on forever with details defiantbadgirl. But as so many of the much more experienced O/ones than you and i have said- with each encounter there is a lesson, an idea or a new definition of ones self.
 
you will always remember your  Trainer and i am sorry it was a sad ending. mine was sad as well. It is sad to say good-bye and/or  No Thank Your Sir when the time comes. But you now have a better idea i bet as to exactly what it is you are hoping to find. A bit sad and a bit more defined. There are some very wonderful D/M here i am discovering. you will find your good match. 
 
 


(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 10:36:17 AM   
GddssBella


Posts: 343
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		G'afternoon all:


Mon dieu. I've read all 7 pages of this train wreck. I dearly want to slap the OP and make her wake up. You're not some dewy eyed teenager. Take responsibility for yourself. Or do you like cheese with this whine?

Many others have made good points. I'll add 1. Do NOT impose your expectations upon others. It will leave you disappointed every time.

Am I harsh? Sometimes. I don't believe in velvet glove treatment. I believe in reality. If the scenario was different, say, a death in the family, I would be all hugs and support. For this though? I say, dust yourself off, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and carry on. Learn from it. Instead of bitching, turn your energies into a more positive avenue of exploration.

For whatever you hold holy? Rewrite that bloody profile. It sounds like a cheap byte from a porn site. That advice was already given, but you've failed to follow it. You get what you put into it.


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella


_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!"

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 10:37:38 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		I hope I do find the right one someday and I appreciate you and the other few people who were actually kind. I just can't believe someone accused me of using him. When I tried pass the lesson I learned about trainers on.......in hopes of preventing others from ending up in my situation, I was verbally attacked by so many people. First, I should have known from the beginning what a trainer was, even though that's his professional title at his job. Then, since I was warned in the beginning not to expect anything, it was all my fault. Never mind that this guy constantly changes his mind (he wants me, he wants me not, he says he wants to date me now, then says he isn't ready to).  Next I will be accused of holding a gun to his head to force him not to keep his story straight.........geez.

(in reply to alovelylady4U)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 10:38:10 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Of course I enjoyed the sessions julietsierra, but my intentions were good. His weren't. How does that make me a user? If I was a user, I would get involved with someone else knowing that when I did, he would come running back since I was suddenly no longer available. Instead, I am concerned that I will end up hurting an innocent person because of my feelings for him. Users don't care who gets hurt as long as they get what they want. I am not out to hurt anyone. In fact, I am putting the potential men that might get hurt above my own need to move on and find someone else. I suppose that makes me selfish too.


The point you seem to be missing here defiant is that prior to him breaking up with you, you were just fine with what he was doing. It was only when he didn't act as you wanted him to - were hoping he would - that he became this oh-so-terrible "user."

You completely neglected to consider the reality of what he was telling you. You spent your time hoping for hearts and flowers when he'd already told you he was a trainer. Trainers are not OBLIGATED to shower you with love and affection on Valentine's Day, your birthday or any other day of the month or year - unless they so choose. They are trainers - not your dominant, not your boyfriend (yes yes, I'm just WAITING for someone to attack that!). They are your TRAINER. For that matter, neither are dominants and Masters obligated to do these things - even though it's nice when it happens.

And here's another noteworthy item...this whole "I didn't deserve it" stuff is another fantasy. BDSM is not a balance sheet. You do not get to do x-number of things to earn your way into being kept. You do not get to control the situation you're in...that's what makes it submission - unless you're saying you're not a submissive - and that's ok too. However, if you are, you do what he says until he says not to do it anymore. And if that means being resourceful enough on your birthday and valentine's day to not fall apart just because you didn't hear from him then that's what it means. (that is, as is listed in your profile: "Obedience training.") Any romanticism is in the individual relationship above and beyond bdsm. Bdsm on its own is not a romantic love boat ride.

Furthermore, while sorting out your feelings before moving on to another relationship is a good thing, doing so by accusation and warning to others is not. So far, in all that I've read, you have been amazingly innocent. You hold absolutely zero responsibility regarding what happened and your feelings about it all. It'd be nice to see you owning your own feelings and reactions along the way. And for my money - yes, I know, I'm rather hard this way - until you do own up to your end of the deal (and this doesn't mean "I gave my all and he gave nothing"), you're not going to move ahead learning anything about yourself other than that when things go wrong, it's so much easier blaming the other person.

By the way, being selfish is not a bad thing either. If you're selfish, you hold out till you get exactly what you want. Hopefully, the person you meet that fits this bill is doing the same thing. Then, when you get together, you know that what you've got is something to build on. As it is, your trainer taught you some things...you got an opportunity to experience sessions, to presumably learn a little bit about serving, and yes, to experience the heartache that endings bring - all useful things. Most of all, I'd say he taught you that you darn better well know what you're getting into before you take those steps.

Building on ignorance (and you, yourself has admitted to your ignorance of what being a trainer means) is like building houses on sand. Ignorance is not a bad thing. It's just a thing. Blaming someone else as an answer to being hurt by your ignorance however...well, that's a whole different ball game.

Oh...and when I was new and people talked to me this way, I thought they were mean too...

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 9/4/2006 11:05:26 AM >

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 10:45:12 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		7 pages and not an ounce yet of "I'll know better next time." or "In hindsight, I should have..." or "As an adult, I know I should have..."

And now we're coming to the predictable "Everyone's attacking me and I'm just a sweet little thing who got hurt." attempt to garner more sympathy.

I'm really confused about this whole "bondage training" scenario anyway.  As a bottom only, what do you need to be trained in that would take more than an hour?  If you switch, then it would take a lot longer, but it would be a lot more of him teaching you ties and knots and techniques- no kissing there.  As a bondage bottom you learn how to stretch your body, eat and exercise appropriately to keep positions and some of the basics on bondage and how to communicate specific feelings during a scene.

I really am not getting how being trained as a bottom bondage would entail ANY of these emotional or kissing or long term sessions together.  I think you really just wanted to be his play lover, I think he was happy to use you for what he could get, and ended up getting hurt in the process.

Sorry you got hurt, but it's time for you to take adult responsibility and do the right thing for yourself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 11:11:15 AM   
mp072004


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		It's unfortunate when people enter relationships, BDSM or otherwise, without clearly defining their rules and obligations. Bad things happen, and, as the OP described, people get hurt. It seems that the couple described failed to adequately define their relationship. It was ill-done of the man defiantbadgirl discusses to fail to define his role in their relationship, and it was ill-done of defiantbadgirl to fail to define her role as well. This mistake is hardly characteristic of being new to BDSM; experienced BDSMers do it, vanillas do it.

I don't know that there is a single definition of "trainer" among BDSM people. As a result, when I say I like incorporate teaching, or training, in my d/s relationships, I generally give an example of it. I say something like, "When I talk about training, I mean that I like helping people reach defined goals, usually involving learning, literacy and written and oral expression." I'll help people learn things in short-term, even one-day situations, but this is something that's important to me in a long-term relationship with a person who agrees to obey me.

Defiantbadgirl wrote that "Trainers only want short-term and no amount of effort on the trainee's part will convince them otherwise." The fact that training is a short-term proposition is debatable, but I have a different objection. When I tell someone the kind of relationship I want, and he or she tells me the kind of relationship he or she wants, and they don't match, I might say, "We are mismatched, and would probably do better with other people. If you really, really like me, and want a relationship with me, we'll need to do the kind of relationship I want, because I don't want a relationship with you enough to do things your way."

It's perfectly honorable to not do love relationships or long term relationships. It's also honorable to do long term relationships that don't involve love. It is, however, dishonorable to violate one's agreements. It's wrong agree to do a relationship that doesn't involve emotional obligation and involve emotional obligation in it, and it is similarly dishonorable to agree to do a relationship with emotional obligation and not involve emotional obligation in it. Using a more concrete example, if I agree that I'll give X flowers on Valentine's Day, I need to do it, or I'm being a bad partner, but if I agree that I WON'T give X flowers on Valentine's Day, I need to refrain from doing it, or I'm being a bad partner, too.

Defiantbadgirl, it's unfortunate that you have been hurt, and it is unfortunate that the man described in your posts was hurt as well. You might find some solace in the recognition that this experience has taught you more about the sort of relationship you want, and has illustrated the importance of clearly defining your relational rules. Silver linings, you know.

Monica

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 11:12:15 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Her profile does include the desire for obedience training amongst other things, leading me to believe her goal was submission. While that's significantly more involved, it still implies enough maturity to accept responsibility for one's own actions.

juliet

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 11:32:44 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What? He is NOT married. He's never been married. I never said he was married. I would NEVER get involved with a married man. He also did NOT have a gf when I first got involved with him. I have ALWAYS AVOIDED married men because I knew they were emotionally unavailable. What I said was, married men and trainers (2 totally different types of guys) are both users because they have emotional unavailablity in common. The message I was trying to send was that avoiding married men (like I always have) isn't enough, Newbies should avoid trainers as well. It was a comparison. Is this why so many people have jumped down my throat?


Yes you did say that, i am sorry, i mis-read something,  and i'd fix my post but the "edit" function isn't available anymore. 

i'm sorry i didn't catch this sooner..  you must be very upset, and i can't blame you. please forgive me. 

i would still say everyone who hooks up with a trainer doesn't expereince this.. i have worked with a trainer / mentor myself.. and it was clear from the beginning that He would set the boundries of the relationship, and i would agree or scram if i didn't like it.  That's common to any Dom/sub or Master slave deal.. not just training.  His accepting the job to train you obviously didn't include "til death do us part" kind of thinking, fulfilling your nilla / romantic needs, or full ownership.

i am probably the only one who mis-read the married part, so i'm guessing the reason others "jumped down your throat"  is the idea of yes, Doms do asswipe things to newbie subs frequently, but if you spend time ruminanting over it, you'll end up looking like a walking bruise, and shoot yourself in the foot as far as your appeal to other dominants who don't behave that way.

an honest warning to others is "SOMEtimes, this situation happens, SOME trainers are doing this, SOME married men are on the sneak, SOME subs make mistakes that put them in horrid situations, but Some subs can recover and have the capacity to self-heal.

Again, i apologise for my jabs when it looked to me that you were expecting honorable behavior from Him, but weren't being so honorable yourself.  It was the appearant double standard i reacted to.  Next time i respond after page 5 from the OP, i'll re-read it to make SURE i have my facts straight.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 11:38:48 AM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		The bottom line is this situation had nothing whatsoever to do with BDSM.  It happens in all walks of life.  This guy was stringing you along because you let him.  You kept letting him come back.  Stop and accept that people can't do anything to you that you don't let them. 

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 11:45:51 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		LA, I see what you're saying about me needing to take responsibility. I would take full responsibility if I knew what to take responsibility for. One thing I do take responsibility for is not understanding someone who can't keep his story straight. About the whole training thing........we started out as switches and he turned "subbie". I was the one doing most of the tying and gagging. I told him he was not a subbie, but a dom that liked being tied up. He certainly doesn't act like a subbie. Even more confusing than the hugging and kissing is the fact that although he dumped me, he's still trying to hang on to me. One of my biggest complaints to him was the fact that he never took me out on a date. We have been split up for a month. A week ago, he asked me out on a date, promised to see me more often, and said he would treat me better. I don't believe his excuse of being drunk when he said it because he only averaged 1 beer an hour for 5 hours. Last night when he wasn't "drunk" he told me he was considering dating both me and his new woman. He gets enraged and jealous if I'm on cam and don't let him view. He was the one that dumped me, so he shouldn't care who views my cam. Do you think he's trying to keep me attached so I will be available if things don't work out with the other woman?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 11:50:09 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Do you think he's trying to keep me attached so I will be available if things don't work out with the other woman?


Of course he is! But do you want someone who would do that? Do you really think you're second-rate?

Kick him to the curb. Gain some self-esteem. Be responsible to ask lots of questions of Doms before you get into involved relationships with them. Make note of inconsistencies. When you find a lot of them, especially ones that are not easily explained, get out of the relationship.

You've got a lot of years ahead of you. If you invest wisely in your relationships now, it will make for a much better future.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 11:50:09 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Just for the record, if I meet someone who says she has had or is involved with a "trainer" "mentor" or anyone of that ilk.  I quietly back away.  To me, it is a giant neon sign saying DANGER!!!

WHY?

Because they are almost guaranteed to be the ones with boundary issues, emotionally needy, and god knows what else.  Besides, nobody trains my girls as well as I train my girls.  If they want to learn, one read of "The Bottoming Book" and they will know more about D/s and BDSM than many here.


Crappy, i would too Sir, but i do hope You'll give SOME mentors trainer the benefit of the doubt and ask her what exactly was the nature of thier working together.   The fellow i worked with didn't "scene train" me or even behavior train me, He just advised on what was proper for approaching Doms to do, and warn me of little red flags subs might not pick up on. there wasn't intimacy or dependance, or even direction with expected obedience.  i was still very much a free agent, so it was not something a subsequent Dom would have to un-train.

Please don't pass up on ALL subs who have sought out someone for information, i feel i was much better ground to til because of the things i learned from Him.   (Master agrees, although His first reaction was "OK,  what the heck did this yutz do?"..   archives of IMs and mail verified the intents and purpose of both the mentor and i.)

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 12:33:19 PM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

velvettears: I appreciate the thought, you sweetie - not much hurts my feelings anymore, actually.
It was kind of a low thing to say, though.

- Susan  



It's seemed to me to be a sublte form of emotional intimidation in order to "shut you up" and that equates with emotional bullying in my book. i don't like bullies and the only way to stop them is to confront them.  i suppose after 2000 some odd posts you perhaps get a thicker skin. i read it and it just boiled my blood. We are all adults here, come together to exchange experiences and ideas and to sometimes give advice and lend an ear to those in need. Never a need to be hostile. 

Velvetears, after reading that by Homestead again it was despicable!
That was said to hurt, insult and yes , Bully.
I wonder what he thought he'd accomplish by giving a low blow like that? Perhaps he wants to alienate people.
And, he does it to one of the nicest people on the boards too.
Maybe he needs a good smack in the mouth.


Popeye, a good smack would not help him. It was absolutely despicable to say something so personally attacking to someone who writes very supportive and thought provoking things on these message boards.

You can always tell so much about a person's character, frustration, bitterness and alot else from the way they post. Sometimes people have a bad day or two or three, but consistent lack of tack, attacking others and worst of all, in this case, the hypocrisy and narrow mindedness with which some post, is not acceptable at all.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 1:01:14 PM   
subsa


Posts: 196
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		there are so many things wrong with this whole thread...the more i read the more confusing it gets.  did he ever really claim to be a bdsm trainer or that's just his job title? if its just his job title than how did he lead her on?  its no different than someone being a 'manager'  and is a sub in the lifestyle. 

what i see is a pair of very confused people.  also the op just wants sympathy and for eveyone to say 'poor thing'.  that's what gfs are for, not the board. if your gfs are on the board then pm them. 

what about the part where he said he's a sub and she told him he was a dominant. so did he just try to please his dominant by trying to becoming a dominant (or a switch i guess)? 

maybe its her title that is misleading.  i don't think there ever was a bdsm trainer involved.  so maybe it should be what every newbie should know about personal excercise trainers and married men?   

(in reply to SexyRed)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 1:02:23 PM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		*sigh*  The definition of insane is to do the same thing the same way over and over, yet expect a different result.

The thread started out warning newbies to stay away from Trainers and married men.  The man in question isn't really a Trainer and not a married man.  Might as well just say "stay away from men"??

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 1:16:11 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
The thread started out warning newbies to stay away from Trainers and married men.  The man in question isn't really a Trainer and not a married man. 


Now why can't everyone reading this thread see that?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 1:22:31 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subsa
what about the part where he said he's a sub and she told him he was a dominant. so did he just try to please his dominant by trying to becoming a dominant (or a switch i guess)?    

http://www.collarchat.com/m_376817/tm.htm
How can you tell what a man feels?

This thread that Defiant started in May should shed a lot of light on the circumstances and give people a much better understanding of where this is all coming from.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 1:48:16 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		I came up with the idea of posting this warning because I read about someone else getting hurt by a trainer and it reminded me of my own painful situation. My ex partner might not have trained anyone else in bdsm except me, but he did teach me about bondage. Anyway, until I read that thread about someone else getting hurt by a trainer and read the comments, I didn't know the title "trainer" only meant a short term commitment. I thought of a bdsm trainer as someone who wanted  an inexperienced person they didn't have to both untrain and retrain. Everyone has heard of bosses that prefer inexperienced people to train their own way (on the job training). Were all those jobs listed as temporary? Also, I'm not looking for marriage like some people thought. I believe relationships should progress slowly. Just didn't expect to get dumped unless I did something to deserve it. I'm not warning newbies against all men, just married men and trainers.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 1:49:46 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for the link LA - it does shed a lot of light on this current situation she's in.   In the original she doesn't talk at all about this being a trainer/trainee relationship, in fact she claims they were switches.  Now i am totally confused. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/4/2006 1:59:20 PM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		This thread is a brick wall and we are all thumping our heads against it.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 140
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