RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans

Page: << < prev 3 4 5 [6] 7 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 7:04:52 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
I TOTALLY understand.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 101

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 7:18:57 AM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

It's the very fact that she NEEDS evidence in the first place that I find disturbing in the extreme.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
That was not what she said at all. She made some very specific points. It is not picking nits to question these statements, especially when you consider that the first line of my post was:

"As a person that is undecided on this issue, I can only say that these vast statements of conjecture, after a call to "get an education", does your position no good at all."

Ask for proof, and they send you a youTube of some screaming idiot, or a quote from "Rush" ... and follow that up with the obligatory, "educate yourself", "read history", "you are closed minded."

Anyway, this evidence you are yet to see - in relation to what?

_____________________________

---
Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Profile

Post #: 102

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 7:29:40 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

The Iran-Contra Scandal: The Declassified History
The Iranian Triangle: The Untold Story of Israel's Role in the Iran-Contra Affair
Report of the congressional committees investigating the Iran-Contra Affair: With supplemental, minority, and additional views
Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA, 1981-1987 (Paperback)
by Bob Woodward

I could go on but since level and caitlyn aren't actually interested in the truth I won't bother.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 103

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 7:35:25 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

The Iran-Contra Scandal: The Declassified History

The Iranian Triangle: The Untold Story of Israel's Role in the Iran-Contra Affair

Report of the congressional committees investigating the Iran-Contra Affair: With supplemental, minority, and additional views

Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA, 1981-1987 (Paperback)
by Bob Woodward

I could go on but since level and caitlyn aren't actually interested in the truth I won't bother.

Hey, what happened to "Woodward hasn't done an honest days work as a journalist in years and certainly hasn't done any recently. He has been a hack on a par with Judy Miller. "

Crappy, of course I care about the truth.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Profile

Post #: 104

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 7:42:13 AM

MzKaren

Posts: 14
Joined: 9/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Why will no one on this thread accept that by and large the Eyeraquis are killing one another ?

Am I wrong ?

The Sunnis, Shi'ites, and Kurds all hate each other tremendously and each would love to see the other two wiped off the face of the earth. So yes, they are killing each other, but they are killing us too.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Profile

Post #: 105

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 8:19:25 AM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

It's more a matter of political oppression than religious or cultural ideology. When a repressive regime of a small minority group such as Saddam's Sunni regimen, actively suppresses and victimizes the majority groups (Kurds and Shi'ites) for decades, the resultant hatred --amongst certain factions--is inevitable. To say they "all hate each other tremendously and each would love to see the other two wiped off the face of the earth" is patently false, an blanket statement so inherently inflammatory and misleading as to raise it to the level of propaganda.

I worked a great deal with Iraqi refugees in Tucson, people whose loved ones had been killed by Saddam's regime, and who themselves had been targeted (which is why they were refugees). All were Shii'a. None of them *HATED* Sunni's, although they most certainly hated Saddam, and who could blame them? They did, of course, feel that Sunni's were WRONG in their religious beliefs (indeed, my closest Shii'a friend told me I was better to be pagan than to be Sunni Muslim, which I found amusing but rather sad), and my many Sunni friends felt that the Shii'a were wrong in their religious beliefs. But I found no hatred. Cairo, overwhelmingly Sunni, has several sites of Shii'a pilgrimage, and I never heard anyone speak slightingly of the Shii'a (except that they were wrong in their religious beliefs, of course). Again, certainly no hatred.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzKaren

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Why will no one on this thread accept that by and large the Eyeraquis are killing one another ?

Am I wrong ?

The Sunnis, Shi'ites, and Kurds all hate each other tremendously and each would love to see the other two wiped off the face of the earth. So yes, they are killing each other, but they are killing us too.

_____________________________

---
Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

(in reply to MzKaren)

Profile

Post #: 106

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 8:26:23 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

Quite.

These attacks on each other instead of on the invading forces are so very reminiscent of the Macchiavellan "Divide and conquer" strategy, that I have to conclude that they are fomented by the occupying forces in order to themselves profit from the resulting chaos.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 107

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 8:45:12 AM

MzKaren

Posts: 14
Joined: 9/21/2006
Status: offline

Perhaps "hate each other tremendously" was a mistatement. However you used the word "hatred" with regards to the result of decades of victimization. I have no quarrel with that. I would be inclined to hate anyone who victimized and oppressed me for any length of time. There is a great deal of fighting between the three groups and each wants to be in control.

My response to seeksfemslave was more to say that yes, they are killing each other but they are killing U.S. and British forces as well than to make a blanket statement regarding Sunni, Shi'ite, Kurdish relations (which I see I did indeed make).

I will take my slap on the wrist as gracefully as possible from someone who has been there and is therefore more closely informed. But I still feel from my reading that there are those within the three groups who would love to see the other two gone. That may not be true of the groups as a whole, but certainly there are those within them who feel that way. Every group of people has extremists in their midst and unfortunately those are the ones who garner more attention than the peaceful.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 108

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 8:52:53 AM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzKaren
But I still feel from my reading that there are those within the three groups who would love to see the other two gone. That may not be true of the groups as a whole, but certainly there are those within them who feel that way. Every group of people has extremists in their midst and unfortunately those are the ones who garner more attention than the peaceful.

_____________________________

---
Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

(in reply to MzKaren)

Profile

Post #: 109

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 9:12:49 AM

bills944

Posts: 122
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
Stewart: You know the drumbeat of criticism leveled at President Bush for his handling of Iraq? Well it's taken its toll. And Monday in Philadelphia following his speech at the World Affairs Council, Bush found himself forced to turn to desperate measures.
Bush in Philadelphia: I got a little extra time on my hands, so I thought I might answer some questions.
Woman asking question: Mr. President, I would like to know why it is that you and others in your administration keep linking 9/11 to the invasion of Iraq when no respected journalist or Middle Eastern expert confirms that such a link existed?
Bush: What did she say? I missed the question. Sorry. I didn't— I beg your pardon. I didn't hear you, seriously.
Stewart [imitating robot]: Beep, beep. Does not compute. Beep, beep, beep.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 110

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 10:04:56 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

And you are absolutely correct. But in your previous post that I replied to, you stated "all." Now between "all" and a VERY small (but highly visible, vociferous and active) minority there is a wide discrepancy, you must admit!

I could name you groups here in the U.S. who hate others (insert minority of choice: blacks, Catholics, homosexuals, illegals, Mormons, pagans, foreigners) and want them gone and don't even mind seeing them killed. Witness on this very site, people who have minimized an off duty HP officer smashing into a carload of people at 112 MPH, killing them all, and not feeling he needs to be held accountable because the people in the car he struck were illegals. Hatred and oppression of others are not limited to any one religion or race or nationality.

I take my hat off to this post.

We (The West) need to get our own prejudice/bigotry house in order to earn the platform to attempt to show others the light.

This is the real problem with our societies. We're not prepared to look at ourselves and understand what and where we are going wrong. Our only form of defence seems to be to attack others (which is obviously no defence at all).

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 10/1/2006 10:06:35 AM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 111

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 2:00:09 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Rule,

Woodwards book was a bestseller I think and is one of the more readable and less fantasy filled ones out there and most importantly, is commonly found in used book stores.

Woodward bought into the lies about Iraq and WMD and has been at least a passive sympathizer for the insanity being spread by this administration.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Profile

Post #: 112

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 2:14:30 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

Thank you for the suggestions CD. I have read the ICA, Congressional Sub-Committe report, but will certainly read the others you suggested. I have lots of Barnes & Nobel gift card money left.

Does anyone have any information that backs the claim made in post forty-one, that WE are responsible for putting Saddam in power? The person making that claim seems unwilling to share that data, and I'm having even less luck finding it on my own. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Bob Woodward is on 60-Minutes tonight, if anyone is interested.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Profile

Post #: 113

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 2:22:11 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Caitlyn,

First off you dismissed the ENTIRE post, not just the bit about Saddam. If you have indeed read those reports, which I doubt, you would have known how much we supported Saddam behind the scenes.

However, while we put the Baath party in power, it doesn't appear that we had a hand in putting Saddam in power. However, as I stated above, the post you are refering to made many other and more significant alligations which I am sure after googling a few items (and mocking people for suggesting it) you realize you were dead wrong on and are therefore trying to focus on this one issue.

Pathetic and transparent but completely typical of your sleazy tactics.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Profile

Post #: 114

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 2:23:15 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

You realize that she's never going to go out with you if you keep talking to her like that...

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Pathetic and transparent but completely typical of your sleazy tactics.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Profile

Post #: 115

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 2:32:34 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

I didn't dismiss anything ... I asked for sources.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Profile

Post #: 116

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 2:43:18 PM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

What I probably should have said was that we threw our weight and vast support behind him to offset the rising power in Iran after they overthrew the Shah (also our guy); I hadn't meant we literally placed him in power. I realize I should have been more specific (blame the bronchitis, I was in pretty bad shape yesterday), but I also didn't realize she was going to latch onto my words like they'd been zapped onto stone at the Burning Bush.

quote:

ORIGI

NAL: CrappyDom

Caitlyn,

First off you dismissed the ENTIRE post, not just the bit about Saddam. If you have indeed read those reports, which I doubt, you would have known how much we supported Saddam behind the scenes.

However, while we put the Baath party in power, it doesn't appear that we had a hand in putting Saddam in power. However, as I stated above, the post you are refering to made many other and more significant alligations which I am sure after googling a few items (and mocking people for suggesting it) you realize you were dead wrong on and are therefore trying to focus on this one issue.

A common tactic by people try to argue a subject on which they know only the party line. They can't hold any real give-and-take discussion on it because they don't know enough.

< Message edited by LadyMorgynn -- 10/1/2006 2:50:05 PM >

_____________________________

---
Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Profile

Post #: 117

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 3:13:26 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

You told everyone that they needed to educate themselves, then made some pretty pointed statements. There was no reason for you to think for a minute that I wasn't going to latch on to that. If you want to call it a tactic, I can respect that as your opinion.

You spent ten times the amount of time telling me why you aren't going to give me your source and telling me I didn't know anything, as it would have taken you to just give the information in the first place. Some might call that a tactic, if they are going out of their way to look for the nefarious.

I choose to take words as they are spoken, so perhaps when you are feeling better, you might point me in the general direction towards some information they are not teaching in my classes. I assure you, I would like nothing better than to walk into class armed with something that others have not considered.

People tend to get good grades for things like that.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 118

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 3:28:01 PM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

Why am I here? I'm here to find like-minded souls and to hopefully provide a different perspective for some who may not have thought there was another viewpoint aside from the Official Party Line and the Official Enemy as espoused by our government and our media. I'm here because there's a topic under discussion in which I take a particular interest, and have been greatly distressed for years (far before 9/11) at the misinformation and stereotypes being fed the American public. Since this misinformation has led to both 9/11 and used to garner support for a crime of opportunity by the White House (to whit, the Iraq War), I have a lot to say on the subject.

I don't have any particular need to defend my position, only to state it. If I want to provide proofs and quotes and sources I will if I feel like it, but if I don't like the attitude of the person asking, I won't bother, and I might add, there is no reason I am constrained or otherwise required to do so! I am not responsible for other people's education or lack thereof. I LOVE talking to (and with) people who realize there may be another side of the story than the government propaganda (for one can call it no loss). I'm not going to waste MY time on closed minds. There's an old saw, something like, a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still. I'm not one to beat my head against a brick wall.... I'll leave that for the masochists here ;)

_____________________________

---
Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 119

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 3:31:30 PM

sissifytoserve

Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

LM....

You shouldn't have to cite your sources.

Sometimes I do if its a really heated argument...but, its up to HER...to prove you wrong.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Profile

Post #: 120