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A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- *ver... - 10/11/2006 11:29:27 PM   
SEVADom


Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2006
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OK, I was taken, I admit it. Those who will conclude I'm an unrealistic doofus ... yeah, ok. However, my reason for this post is not to whine or even ask for feedback, although I'll try to grin and bear it if I receive it.

Instead, I'm going to post a case study (which just happened to me) to perhaps lessen just a little bit the likelihood of this exact scam succeeding again in the future. I'll attempt to be sufficiently specific to be helpful, while sufficiently vague not to violate the TOS.

I'm not saying "look out for this person -- she's fake" because the beauty of this scam is that a real person could, for the most part, have exactly the same information. The point is that a really good scammer doesn't jump out at you (e.g., the broken English, etc., we all know and love) -- and, in this case, even on the phone can be completely convincing, in many subtle ways. My intent here is to try to show how convincing it can be. I thought I would be very difficult to fool. I wasn't.

One of the elements of a good scam is that the mark wants to believe. Even if s/he tries to be skeptical, that goes against one's own desire. It makes it very difficult in the "heat of the moment" to notice problems. So when you see the "obvious" BS in what you see below ... it wasn't so obvious at the time, although it now is in retrospect.

Key elements of this scammer's CM profile (since taken down, by the way):

Short profile, but longer than 3 sentences (7 sentences, actually) and very well-written -- complete sentences, consistent message, appropriate reserve, precise and cautious. Said "Relocatable," but confined it to the USA. Although I tend to be more verbose, if I were the type of person she purported to be, I would have been happy to have been able to write such a clear and concise profile.

Description: Submissive Female -- although in her profile and in communications she self-identified as a slave. Why the discrepancy? I don't know -- but my guess is that saying 'submissive' on the form results in showing up in more searches, but saying 'slave' might be more attractive to her 'target' audience.

Location: Northern California (and this is real, based on two supplied -- and used -- cell phone numbers in the Sacramento area code -- which is a rather small geography)

Pics: none in profile, but sent (unsolicited) in first response message. Two G-rated pics, not great quality, obviously taken with a web cam, but clear enough to show the person is stunning -- and about the same age as claimed by the scammer. Typical female fakes (in my opinion) often include at least one stunning pic in their profile. Not including such, and sending obviously non-professional pics, was much more convincing than fantastic pics would have been.

Sought: Dom Women, Dom Men, Dom/Dom Couples, or Joining a Poly Group. One occasional giveaway (to me) of a scammer is that they sometimes include a longer list -- e.g., they say they are a submissive, but also list submissives as being sought. This one did not make that mistake; the profile was internally consistent.

Initial interaction on CM:

I contacted her. Mine was a focused response of two good-sized paragraphs, not a generic one. She did not quickly try to move the conversation off CM, as so often happens (e.g., to Y!). She responded quickly and positively, although with only one sentence.

Her responses were very short (which provided less opportunity for her to misstep). Her stated priorities included safety, building trust, being real, and not spending months sending email. One reason she gave for short responses was that, since (she claimed to) live in a motel, her online time was via dialup at an outrageous cost per minute. A good element of plausibility there ...

Rather than telling me about herself, she preferred that I ask her questions. Her responses all were the ones I wanted to hear ... just possibly because she had read my profile?

She established a history of having had one Master already (for 2 years), one to whom she had gone cross-country after a very short period of contact (2 days). This set precedent for a willingness to come to me without a long discussion period -- and also suggested at least the possibility of enough experience that she wasn't basing her desires on only dreams.

She had a plausible reason for the ending of the previous relationship, one that didn't involve death or evildoing on either part.

Telephone contact:

I was the one to first offer to speak by telephone -- but she gave me a (cell) telephone number before asking for mine. Also, while she expressed a preference for my calling her, she did also call me a few times.

The first call lasted about an hour -- and this was the part that is most amazing to me. Not having previously interacted with a competent con artist  (so far as I know), I had no idea of the subtlety that could be employed by someone so completely convincingly. We're talking nuanced here. Again, I wanted to believe -- but I've spotted several fraudsters in the past; this was in a different class.

She echoed a point that many legitimate CM users have written -- that short initial contact, and then in-person meetings, makes more sense than extended electronic interaction. I agree with that -- but in this case, it just helped to justify limiting the initial electronic contacts, since we'd "be meeting" soon.

She established that her current lifestyle was hand-to-mouth because her previous Master had left and she was only working part time for a temp agency. Why did this matter? Because later, her request for help with the cost of relocating would not be at all surprising.

Since she claimed to live in a motel, it was plausible that all her possessions could fit in her car. And the cost of getting her to me would actually only be about the cost of a discounted round-trip plane ticket. (That wasn't even discussed in conversation; I figured that out on my own.) She felt that a visit wouldn't be more useful than a "trial period." And, she had no ties to where she was now.

We discussed limits, and she had the typical ones -- but also said that her main intent was "to find a good man and serve him." That is, she wasn't seeking specific kinks, but rather received her pleasure from serving. Sound familiar? True of many legitimate subs -- but also very convenient to avoid the time otherwise needed to discuss specific compatibilities. [idiot] Good scams also happen quickly -- to avoid giving the mark time to think about things too much.

On later calls, she said that she really didn't enjoy talking on the phone -- that she much preferred to interact in person. I found myself nodding, and helping to justify this (many people rely a lot on body language and eye contact). [idiot] In fact, it again helped to minimize the possibility that she might say something I might question. And, it lowered the total effort/time she had to put into the scam.

After a few calls, she notified me by email (no longer on CM) that she had changed to a new telephone number because of receiving prank calls on the previous one -- and provided the new one. This engendered more trust on my part -- "ah, the bad guys are gone, and I am a trusted good guy!" [idiot]

She wasn't greedy; when we calculated the cost of relocating her, she volunteered that she had some money (not a lot, but enough to reduce the total by about 30%). She gave a miles-per-gallon figure for her car that was reasonable, and relatively good. We included the costs of meals and cheap motels on the drive, and an oil change for her car before she left. The end result was that I sent her $350. I consider it tuition.

Once it became clear to her that I was attempting to get the money to her, there were no further messages from her -- at all. Since I'm quite efficient at such things, the total elapsed time for this to happen (i.e., without further communication) unfortunately was only about 30 hours, not long enough for me to realize that I was about to be had.

More stupid mistakes I made:

1) She gave a street address of a motel she was staying at. I didn't ask for the name or phone number of the motel (or, obviously, try to call it). [idiot] The way I finally determined for sure that it was a scam was Googling the street address -- which exists, but is actually the address of a defunct landscaping company, and some distance from the area where other motels are located.

2) She claimed that California law doesn't allow transients to establish permanent residency in a motel. I took her word for this. Why did this matter? When, after agreeing to join me, she raised the need for gas money and we initially agreed that I'd use a Postal Money Order, she quickly (before it would have been possible for me to get one) got back to me claiming that the motel owners had told her that if people received postal mail there, it would make them residents, which wasn't allowed. I'm now pretty sure this is complete BS (she supposedly had been there for about 6 weeks, but only discovered this right after we spoke?), but it seemed to hang together at the time. Since we'd already agreed that having her relocate quickly would make the most sense (hah!), the remaining option (which of course I concluded without her help) was a wire transfer ... which I duly made happen. So no snailmail ... which means no chance of committing mail fraud. And of course, snailmail wouldn't have worked anyway, since she had given me an address where she couldn't possibly be. [idiot]

Conclusion

I seriously doubt that, while the above was going on, anyone would have been able to dissuade me from proceeding as I did. I'm way too confident of my own abilities ... [idiot] ... although I will say that all along I was aware of the possibility that I was being taken. I just figured that if it turned out I was, the total amount lost wouldn't break the bank -- and I'd have learned something. This attitude did have one benefit: I'm not emotionally devastated. Not happy about it, and certainly not happy about losing the money, but otherwise fine.

Unfortunately, it isn't likely that this person's next scam (or anyone else's) will closely replicate the one I've presented. So even having read this (my compliments on your persistence, by the way!), you won't necessarily be able to spot one immediately. But if you realize how convincing it can be, and perhaps pick up on some of the places where had I been a bit smarter I might have figured it out, just maybe one or more of you will stop short of actually being suckered. Good luck!

Oh, I'm willing to give a little more detail (there isn't all that much I didn't provide above) in response to specific emails -- here or off site if necessary so as not to violate the TOS here. I'm not sure it will help (see above), but perhaps it might.
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/11/2006 11:59:04 PM   
Iskander


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Hmm second time I've heard this happen in less that 2 months on here...

Personally I just don't get it...

Iskander...


(in reply to SEVADom)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 12:04:26 AM   
becca333


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It's sad how this happens, and makes it so much harder for the honest ones - all we can do is check and recheck and never send money!


(in reply to SEVADom)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 12:12:03 AM   
TomNE


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It was an unusually well thought out scam. I suspect many may have fallen for it.

(in reply to Iskander)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 12:24:22 AM   
Liannan


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Joined: 9/25/2006
From: PA
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That's kind of scary.  Does it happen a lot on here?  

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(in reply to TomNE)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 12:38:35 AM   
Iskander


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Not if you take your time, as the OP mentioned, rushing into these things is playing into the hands of any scammer...

I'm just waiting for the post about a similar scenario, where the person does actually arrive and then after a few days, has cleaned the entire house out and vanished again...

$350 is a small price to pay for such a 'lesson'...

Iskander...


(in reply to Liannan)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 12:45:26 AM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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SEVADom,

I'm sorry you got had.  

I wish you well and do thank you for posting this warning. Maybe it can help someone avoid a similar situation in the future.

Celeste - who hopes this hasn't ruined the Internet for you

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 12:55:19 AM   
SEVADom


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Thanks, Celeste -

No, I doubt anything could cause me to stop using the Internet; by now, it's way too integrated into how I live -- although having been burned, I certainly will be a whole lot less likely to be trusting in the future, at least initially. Which is both a shame and probably a good thing.

And Iskander, yes, definitely a cheap lesson, all things considered. Although interestingly, the amount was slightly under a mental limit that would have triggered much more care on my part. This lady was very good ... there were more details that made it even more convincing than one might think from the above. But I had to stop writing at some point!

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 12:56:01 AM   
Lordandmaster


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You know, your jaded superior attitude about this really annoys me.  He didn't post this as an opportunity for you to display your wisdom and savvy.  He posted this for other people--the kind who might fall for it, in other words not you--to know about it.

Anyone who pretends NEVER to have fallen for a scam is a liar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iskander

$350 is a small price to pay for such a 'lesson'...


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/12/2006 12:57:18 AM >

(in reply to Iskander)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 1:09:35 AM   
MysticFireTopaz


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From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TomNE
It was an unusually well thought out scam. I suspect many may have fallen for it.


Yes, it was very well thought out, compared to some of the other scams I have heard of.
 
Another scam that apparently isn't too uncommon, as I have heard this from a few different submissive males, is for a Domme to insist on some money, before even meeting the person, as "proof of his sincerity," to keep the communication going.  Of course, if the sub falls for it, the communication stops  The amounts seem to range from $100 to $200. 
 
Of the subs I know approached with this scam, all but one told her (or him, who knows) to take a flying leap.  The one who forked over the $$$ never heard from the "Domme" again.
 
Lady Topaz

(in reply to TomNE)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 1:28:20 AM   
MasterKalif


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Joined: 5/24/2004
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SEVADom, I am sorry that happened to you....but as long as you take it as a lesson learned, then it is good. If I had been you and had fallen for this, I would have been super angry, as in not forgetting angry, and would do the impossible to hunt him or her down....but thats just me. I am lucky in the sense that having grown up overseas I am very untrusting of anyone...I go by a wise saying that says "always think the worst, and you will always be right" (translated from Spanish, lol)...this means don't trust anyone. As soon as you see "money" say "scam" and you will be fine. I do have to admit though that this scam seems more well done than the usual, and excuse my French here, "half-assed" attempts by Nigerian con-artists that we see so often. I think another way to catch (as I have done on some ocassions) these scam artists (even those more verbose and well spoken) is to ask them where they are from, where they grew up...and because they lie, and assume you don't know your geography or history, they mess up. Let this be a lesson to us all...

(in reply to Iskander)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 1:47:50 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
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I was just saying these scenario's could get a lot worse... Adding another reason why people have to be cautious...

" $350 is a small price to pay for such a 'lesson'..." was simply paraphrasing what he said in the OP..
"The end result was that I sent her $350. I consider it tuition."

If you read anymore into what I said, then blame the non-emotive internet.. I am certainly not unsympathetic...

No I have never been scammed, but then I'm usually too broke to be worth scamming..

Iskander...



(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 2:01:31 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

It was an unusually well thought out scam. I suspect many may have fallen for it.


Really?  It would never occur to me to give money to strangers whom I barely know and have never met.  And I continue not to understand why people would want others to relocate to them when they barely know them, to me this represents a huge red flag.


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(in reply to TomNE)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 2:01:59 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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From: Georgia
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Kalif, that is something Americans who live overseas learn. I lived in Asia for 4 years and have traveled all over the world. I am always on guard. When someone would go out of their way to speak with me in their rudimentary English about the weather or whatever I would always be wondering about the motive and waiting for the money angle. It was an education. The story meant nothing to me, I only considered why this person wanted to talk with me. It made me less susceptible to scams back home because, like you, I am always looking for the motive.

To the OP, I am sorry and this is in no way an attempt to say anything derogatory. I'm passing along my technique that may help others, just as you are doing.  

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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 2:14:51 AM   
MasterKalif


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Kalif, that is something Americans who live overseas learn. I lived in Asia for 4 years and have traveled all over the world. I am always on guard. When someone would go out of their way to speak with me in their rudimentary English about the weather or whatever I would always be wondering about the motive and waiting for the money angle. It was an education. The story meant nothing to me, I only considered why this person wanted to talk with me. It made me less susceptible to scams back home because, like you, I am always looking for the motive.

To the OP, I am sorry and this is in no way an attempt to say anything derogatory. I'm passing along my technique that may help others, just as you are doing.  


ExSteelAgain, you say it very well and clearly...I look for a "motive", I couldn't have stated that better myself. That musthave been cool living in Asia, always wanted to work in Shanghai or Hong Kong, sound like cool places even to visit. I lived in Africa, South America and Eastern Europe. Sorry for "hijacking" this thread everyone

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 2:16:49 AM   
JerseyKrissi72


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From: Reed City, Michigan
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Sorry to hear about that...I have had friends online help me financially during the time when my Master first passed away but we've been friends online for quite a long time...I would never give money to someone I barely know, I just don't have money to throw around like that anyhow lol...

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 2:31:15 AM   
MistressMaamNH


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you took the words right out of My mind.  I have never understood the drive to "rescue" someone.  Self-sufficiency, independence, and ability to be in control of their own lives are some of the very important qualities I seek in those who serve Me.  If someone cannot manage their own life, and  support themselves enough to have a full-time job, and a secure place to live....where is the value in any sort of control they may give to Me as their Dominant?  I want someone who can maintain relationships both personal and professional....it's a good indication that they may be able to maintain a D/s relationship. If someone is ready willing and able to just pack up and relocate after just a short bit of communicating with someone online/phone that they have no ties to anyone or anything, that to Me is a big red flag. Regardless of whether they are just out of a two year relationship or not..they should have been maintaining a "vanilla" life out there as well..can't live in the Dungeon 24/7. That's not a very well-rounded individual in My opinion, if that were the case.
quote:

Really? It would never occur to me to give money to strangers whom I barely know and have never met. And I continue not to understand why people would want others to relocate to them when they barely know them, to me this represents a huge red flag.


MMNH



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(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 2:34:49 AM   
LadyEllen


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USD 350-00 sounds like a relatively small pay off for a con so well planned and executed - but then not bad earnings for a short period of time. This is the thing though - small amounts dont throw up a red flag so readily.

Katy - I appreciate fully what you mean about not sending any money to anyone, but Seva is clearly no fool - he was fooled by a clever scam that is set up to prey on guys. I doubt very much if the reverse scenario would work (eg a guy scamming a woman in this way). I'm not saying guys think with their dicks there by the way either - this scam is cleverly structured to elicit the protective instinct of a guy for a girl in trouble. Thats why I find it so annoying - some woman who really needs help will be ignored because of this sort of thing.

As for asking background information - this is so important. Do you remember the "lady" in Rostov who wanted someone to pay for her to come and live as a slave over Christmas? That was an obvious enough red flag in itself, but didnt "she" disappear really quick when I posed her a question about the Volga river bridge in Rostov? The river Don flows through Rostov, the Volga goes into the Caspian about 100 miles east. She didnt answer to correct me, which surely any resident of Rostov who was genuine would have done? In fact, rather than risk getting it wrong either way, she disappeared.

E

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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 2:40:15 AM   
mons


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sevadom greeting

i am sorry you had this happen she will run into the wrong person and i am sad for her she has no morals

take care your are not an idiot she is she messed up


(in reply to SEVADom)
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RE: A cautionary tale of a successful scam (warning -- ... - 10/12/2006 3:34:06 AM   
sweetnurseBBW


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From: North Carolina
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Sorry you expereinced that. At least you have larned from it and actually did learn something. We have all been taken at one time. Good luck to you.

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(in reply to SEVADom)
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