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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 1:40:30 PM   
raiken


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveAkasha

I can't see why anyone would mind someone talking to them about their reasons for doing something, and listening to their sub/slave.  I know that it will come down to what he wants, regardless, but I do feel better having said my peace.
 
Masters Akasha


i agree about at least getting to express feelings whether the dom acts upon them or not.  However, there are some who are even fearful of whether or not they should or could express themselves for  feeling like they are not supposed to as a sub/slave, etc. 

(in reply to SlaveAkasha)
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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 1:47:17 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

...What i am asking is do you, personally, feel that a dominant has the right to selfishly demand whatever, whenever, from you, and in your personal relationship, just because one is DOM, lol, without having at least some consideration for the subs feelings or thoughts?...  



in the relationship this slave has with Master, YES, not only does He have that right, but this slave has the the responsibility to obey Him.  when He says "jump", this slave says "how high?" on the way up.  this slave understood this fully and agreed to it...in the almost 4 years we have been this way with each other, that agreement hasn't caused this slave any consternation or resentment.

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 1:50:04 PM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
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From: Indy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

  i believe that while although the power is unequal in the dynamic, that the fulfillment works best when it is mutually shared and enjoyed.  
 


In short, this is My perspective..



_____________________________

Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 1:53:27 PM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		Quote:
Dominance is not a license to be a boor, submission is not a mandate to be a martyr.  We should all be getting exactly what we want.

Good thought as usual LA.

Quote:

I don't believe that being selfish is necessarily a bad thing and sometimes it's a course of action or attitude which helps nurture someone to embrace their own submission as they let go of expectations. That said, if it gets to a point where growth is limited and responsibility is abdicated because selfish has taken over, then partners may do well to re-evaluate the relationship they have and make sure that .. for the dominant, being selfish is not the soul exercise of their power .. and for the submissive, that such selfishness on the part of their partner is not stunting their own growth potential to be all they can be within their dynamic.  *bold for emphasis.
 
Bita, this has been the experience of one of my closest friends, as lately she believes that her dom has let this aspect of power run amuck in his head.  Her struggle is whether to speak up or not, for she shared that each time she did, he told her she wasn't a slave, for if she were, she wouldn't be thinking such thoughts.  Here goes that darned label thang again! *grin


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 1:55:37 PM   
raiken


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Joined: 10/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

in the relationship this slave has with Master, YES, not only does He have that right, but this slave has the the responsibility to obey Him.  when He says "jump", this slave says "how high?" on the way up.  this slave understood this fully and agreed to it...in the almost 4 years we have been this way with each other, that agreement hasn't caused this slave any consternation or resentment.


Ah that is great to hear, i have always enjoyed reading your thoughts. *smile

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 2:13:13 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		We serve each other in different ways.

I would not be with any man I believed to be selfish. It is one thing to think of yourself, your needs, your desires... it is another thing to be selfish. Someone who was consistently selfish with me would not have me. I define selfish as when someone does not consider the needs of others to the extent that they satisfy their own wants at the expense of other people's needs. Sure we can all be selfish at times,but someone that consistently satisfied his whims at my expense would not be around long.

I think we are all wells of varying depths, some of us deeper than others with more to give, and I will give and give and give.. once I am dry I am gone.... You have to replenish something to keep a supply of it.. even submissives need replenishing or they will wear out.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to raiken)
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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 2:20:23 PM   
TxAllieGrl


Posts: 37
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		I was having thoughts along this same line last night while reading some of the other posts.

IMO, regardless of how we identify (sub, slave, dominant, etc.), we each have a responsibility (perhaps even an instinct) to ensure that our needs (emotional, physical, etc.) are being met in any given relationship. Is that gut check really selfish? Or our own self-interest?
 
Just because we choose to be in a PEx relationship doesn't mean that it's ok to not have our needs met. And I mean our deep emotional and physical needs - not our craving for a soda in the middle of the night.
 
It might mean that we have agreed and allowed someone to take over primary responsibility for ensuring that they are met, but it doesn't mean that we can just tuck it away and never ever think of it again. At least, I can't.
 
If something is isn't fullfilling anymore, anyone worth their salt would want to fix it. It's a relationship - not solitude. Nothing can be done in a bubble.
 
The example that comes to my mind is the recent posts about doms bringing in another person to the home, relationship, etc. and the submissive/slave feeling it has to be accepted because he's the dom. Sister, if ain't something you're ok with, you don't have to accept it!
 
As far as the selfish part resulting from laziness, I think that's something to be worked out within a relationship. Some people get thrills from being service-oriented, and are very pleased to be needed, no matter the inconvenience to themselves. For myself, I know that I'm not service oriented, I get nothin out of it. zip, zero, zilch. But there are times when I appreciate the protocol, and the formality, and will do it to please another (on his terms). Give and take..it's all about give and take..

(in reply to raiken)
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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 2:25:42 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		julia,

You're spot on (as usual)...at least, I think so.  Coming home from work this afternoon, I was thinking about all of the recent threads that start out, "I know slaves aren't supposed to have needs/desires/wants/demands."  I always think, why not?  Who said they're not.  Common sense seems to be in short supply lately.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 2:34:24 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken
What i am asking is do you, personally, feel that a dominant has the right to selfishly demand whatever, whenever, from you, and in your personal relationship, just because one is DOM, lol, without having at least some consideration for the subs feelings or thoughts? 

No.

Add the words "to me" then the answer is yes.

I'm ok with being taken advantage of, in fact I get off on it in certain ways.  In some ways I enjoy the dom doing/saying/ordering things without consideration for my thoughts and feelings.

Of course by DOING that, he's having consideration for my thoughts and feelings- because I've given consent and he knows that this relationship and how it works will be fulfilling for me.

But it's not because "he's a dom" it's because "he's a dom to me."

And obviously, there's a level of reasonability.  Not ever having ANY thought or ANY consideration in ANY way is just rather pointless.  But where that line lies depends on each person.  I have pictures of my partners ex-wife on my walls.  Most women I hear couldn't deal with that while I would consider it very selfish and wrong for them to try and keep the pictures down.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 3:06:06 PM   
Nimkii


Posts: 67
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		No demands One be selfless. Next Question.

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 3:22:23 PM   
SlaveAkasha


Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveAkasha

I can't see why anyone would mind someone talking to them about their reasons for doing something, and listening to their sub/slave.  I know that it will come down to what he wants, regardless, but I do feel better having said my peace.
 
Masters Akasha


i agree about at least getting to express feelings whether the dom acts upon them or not.  However, there are some who are even fearful of whether or not they should or could express themselves for  feeling like they are not supposed to as a sub/slave, etc. 


I have met some like this, and when I first started, thought this is how it was.  I guess if they feel they aren't supposed to, to be "real", there isn't much that can be done about it.  I don't need a Dom to validate that I am a slave, I know what I am without anyone agreeing or not.  I have been called a fake, a player, and more, I just don't let it bother me anymore.  If it makes that big bad dom feel good about himself, he can just move on.  I just feel sorry for his next sub/slave that thinks that is how they have to live.
 
Masters Akasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

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(in reply to raiken)
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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 3:31:54 PM   
BitaTruble


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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:


i agree about at least getting to express feelings whether the dom acts upon them or not.  However, there are some who are even fearful of whether or not they should or could express themselves for  feeling like they are not supposed to as a sub/slave, etc. 


If someone is so fearful they feel they can't express themselves to their partner, I would suggest they are with the wrong partner. There is a time and place for such things and respect goes a long way in expressing yourself, but being unable or fearful to do so points to other issues with which one needs to deal. It seems to me, that having such issues precludes one from fully giving of themselves as a submissive or slave because they have yet to master adulthood.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 3:36:46 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		"The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 4:03:42 PM   
thisishis


Posts: 278
Joined: 5/11/2006
From: Southeastern MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken
Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish?
The answer to that, in a nutshell, depends upon the agreements (aka the dynamics, aka the negotiations) which have been established between those in the relationship.

As an example, in the relationship between myself and my Owner: .... He maintains that right and can, and does exercise it, as often, and to whatever degree He wishes . --because that's what i signed up for (aka agreed to prior to concenting to His ownership of me).

< Message edited by thisishis -- 10/25/2006 4:04:55 PM >

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 4:09:40 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		The word "right" is making this issue seem more complicated than it really is.  The concept of rights makes sense in political discourse ("We hold these truths to be self-evident," etc.); in any other context, it usually just confuses the real issues.  All doms are selfish because all human beings are selfish; some doms are more selfish than others, and some doms justify their selfishness by asserting that it's their prerogative as a dom.

It's up to you as a sub to decide whether you want to be with that kind of dom.

And yes, I really think it's that simple.

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

i have read about how some dominants lay claim to the right to be selfish, and even over indulgent.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/25/2006 4:10:23 PM >

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 5:20:09 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What i am asking is do you, personally, feel that a dominant has the right to selfishly demand whatever, whenever, from you, and in your personal relationship, just because one is DOM, lol, without having at least some consideration for the subs feelings or thoughts? 


Yes, I do feel it is ok to demand whatever or whenever from twicehappy... not because I'm a dominant but because I am her owner. And yes, I have called her away from something she was doing to get me a soda. I've called her inside from working in the yard to fix my lunch. But none of that means that I/we don't take her feelings into consideration.
 
Jewel

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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 5:20:27 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i found with hubby,  who was selfish by reason of being human,  and selfish in the sense of having certain expectations, like a dominant, but conditioned socially enough to feel it was somehow wrong to voice those expectations..   what a mess.   What W/we had was someone who constantly felt His needs and interests were going unmet, simply because He did't feel it ok to voice them.  So it being a "right"  or not,  He had to learn it was OK to voice expectations and things that could be seen as "selfish" by societal norms. So with Him,  there is an active process of helping Him accept, understand, and embrace some selfish behaviors within certain parameters.

Conversely, with Master, who has very definate clearly voiced expectations, it's often a process of me having to step up and say ok,  i signed on for this, but is the overall pattern one of mutual feeding, or is there a Detrimental imbalance?   i feel imbalance is hot, i crave it, but there is also a fine line from there to damaging to the dynamic. It is His responsibilty to manage that, but i would be failing as well if i didn't keep my end of the deal and protect the relationship, which means frequent reading the meter. 

i think dominance alone does not give the right to be selfish.  But i do believe that proper management does earn the "reward" of holding more and more of the string. 

(yes, i do feel we "reward" Masters for good leadership..  by giving them more influence and more happy response, they Earn every bit of what they seek from us.)

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 5:26:39 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

 
What i am asking is do you, personally, feel that a dominant has the right to selfishly demand whatever, whenever, from you, and in your personal relationship, just because one is DOM, lol, without having at least some consideration for the subs feelings or thoughts? 

Some consideration, yes.  The relationship doesnt function nearly as wel if both parties are not happy.  However, I DO reserve the right to be selfishly indulgent on occasion. As Angel's owner, he does live to please me, by hos own admission.  While I am not the type to take advantage of this every oppertunity I am afforded, I am not going to allow every oppertunity to pass me by just because it might not be equal.  I spoil Angel a fair share too, because I enjoy doing so. However, I have demanded things of him that were siply for my benefit, not mutual. He has never objected, never even hesitated.

I suppose, though, if my selfish actions outnumbered the ones where we shared things, he might be less content with the situation.  I will have to ask him when I speak to him again.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 5:44:03 PM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		1. Everyone can be selfish
2. Personality does not give anyone "rights"
3. Everyone can be selfish
4. Calling someone on their personal idiocy is not an automatic denunciation of one's personality...
5. Everyone can be selfish
6. Some people who call themselves dominant and submissive definitively are not but find themselves in a position to try to be in order to belong to something that they do not understand but will rationalize the piss out of in order to not understand that they do not understand - as they want to belong more than they want to really understand themselves.
7. Everyone can be selfish
8. If you do not beleive this entire thing you are not dominant and/or submissive (whatever you claimed to be before reading this)
9. I am dominant
10. I am selfish
 
~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 5:52:51 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		LaM, I gotta agree with you.  It's really up to her to decide if that's who she wants to be with.  But isn't this true in ALL cases?  And what I mean is that it's up to each one of us to decide if we want to be with the other.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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