RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish?

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 4:12:03 PM

CreativeDominant

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There've been some really interesting posts on this topic. Thanks for a great thread, raiken.

I do not enter into a relationship expecting not to have to give. This has been true my whole life, whether they were vanilla relationships or D/s relationships. I've seen vanilla relationships where there was selfishness going on and I've seen D/s relationships where selfishness was going on (though it is a bit harder to tell sometimes in D/s relationships...what one views as selfish may just be the same dynamics that you've observed in this relationship before but in a different manner).

I define (there's that word again) selfishness as an overall behavioral characteristic...something that comes about with a sum of behaviors and thoughts and not just one specific incident. Yes, the person's behavior can be selfish for that one time but that doesn't make HIM selfish if he is giving and loving and wondrous at all other times.

For me, selfishness would creep in when my partners' actions were for their benefit only and undertaken with little regard for my feelings and thoughts and needs and/or the health of the relationship. If I tell my submissive...who negotiated a certain level of service with me but not this... to pour me another cup of coffee and cook me up some bacon and some beans and then wash my car and the only reasons I have for doing so is because:
I can
I don't feel like getting my own ass up and besides, THAT'S why "I have a submissive"

AND I forget (or don't even care, if I do remember) that she is getting nothing...except resentment...out of it because she did not agree to this level of service but is doing it to please me because that matters to her more than her own feelings of resentment AND I do this sort of non-caring, non-respectful of our negotiated agreement, non-thinking type of thing over and over...then I am being selfish in a bad way.

If I do all the above because I know that it not only pleases me and because I can BUT also because it satisfies a need within her to serve...or as LA put it "to be used"...or makes her feel worthwhile and needed, then I am being selfish in a good way...I am helping myself by keeping my partner here by doing something that makes her happy.

I know I went in a big circle to sort of echo what LA...and others...have said. The relationship has to fulfill both. While some aspects of that relationship may appear to be selfish to outsiders, only the two within it...and those they've shared full details with...can know whether it is or not.

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/27/2006 6:47:37 AM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

Well yes, a Dom/Master has the right to do whatever he likes.

If the Dom/Master cares for or is invested in his sub, this statement goes right out the window. Statements like these are childishly absurb.

We are talking about real people here, not characters in an Anne Rice Book.

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/27/2006 7:05:47 AM

emdoub

Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

Well yes, a Dom/Master has the right to do whatever he likes.

If the Dom/Master cares for or is invested in his sub, this statement goes right out the window. Statements like these are childishly absurb.

We are talking about real people here, not characters in an Anne Rice Book.

What, and real people aren't capable of such things?

That statement can be, and is, true for some people in some relationships. Nor does it indicate that the dom is uncaring, or does not value their sub.

Who are you to say that they don't have that right?

Midnight Writer

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/27/2006 8:40:42 AM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

For me, selfishness would creep in when my partners' actions were for their benefit only and undertaken with little regard for my feelings and thoughts and needs and/or the health of the relationship.

This is how i feel.

If I tell my submissive...who negotiated a certain level of service with me but not this... to pour me another cup of coffee and cook me up some bacon and some beans and then wash my car and the only reasons I have for doing so is because:
I can
I don't feel like getting my own ass up and besides, THAT'S why "I have a submissive"

AND I forget (or don't even care, if I do remember) that she is getting nothing...except resentment...out of it because she did not agree to this level of service but is doing it to please me because that matters to her more than her own feelings of resentment AND I do this sort of non-caring, non-respectful of our negotiated agreement, non-thinking type of thing over and over...then I am being selfish in a bad way.

Agreed. i have seen this type of situation occur many times in relationships. i have also experienced this in one of my own. It was not a mutually fulfilling exchange for me when things got to this point.

If I do all the above because I know that it not only pleases me and because I can BUT also because it satisfies a need within her to serve...or as LA put it "to be used"...or makes her feel worthwhile and needed, then I am being selfish in a good way...I am helping myself by keeping my partner here by doing something that makes her happy.

Good explanation of how i enjoy this aspect in my relationships. i call it giving out to get back, a mutual exchange in that respect, which has nothing to do with who is in control of the relationship, but more to do with reciprocating care, concern and/or affections, from one human being to another.

We all have feelings, even if we call ourselves a CHAIR for our master, we will still be a chair with feelings that need to be considered for mental health and well being. *grin

I know I went in a big circle to sort of echo what LA...and others...have said. The relationship has to fulfill both. While some aspects of that relationship may appear to be selfish to outsiders, only the two within it...and those they've shared full details with...can know whether it is or not.

i agree as long as those involved are fulfilled.

< Message edited by raiken -- 10/27/2006 8:43:12 AM >

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/29/2006 2:47:14 AM

Sorcerer

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This is just one man's opinion here but I believe being D brings the right to APPEAR to be selfish.
If you feel it's suspected that you actually care for their needs deeply (which it probably is) then you ought to truly be selfish a few times.
If you're doing power play right, your sub can't be quite certain that you care for their well being.
Again that's only my opinion. :)

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/29/2006 3:26:47 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sorcerer

If you're doing power play right, your sub can't be quite certain that you care for their well being.
Again that's only my opinion. :)

PLAY is the operative word and that is mostly what women who call themselves 'submissives' want in my experience. In my personal experience I've come across very few submissive women on the scene, most are definitely not submissive outside play. In fact the only truely submissive woman I've had a relationship with was my wife who sacrificed a lot to support my work which I am still grateful for. I've never met another women who would do similar though the majority I've met have been sexually submissive and this seems to be a ploy to get and retain my attention and if it doesn't, they don't remain sexually submissive because that tactic isn't having their desired results. I guess that is why I am single and plan to stay that way.

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/29/2006 7:42:42 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

Well yes, a Dom/Master has the right to do whatever he likes.

If the Dom/Master cares for or is invested in his sub, this statement goes right out the window. Statements like these are childishly absurb.

We are talking about real people here, not characters in an Anne Rice Book.

Why?

I'm not understanding the connection that a Master having the right to do whatever he likes equates to him not taking care of his sub/slave. What if "whatever he likes" means exactly that - taking care of his sub? There are many Masters who prefer to dote on their slaves and pamper them, despite outside criticism that they "should not." There are many who spend their time investing in their sub/slave's self confidence, esteem, strength and love for self, because they wish a sub/slave with those qualities (my Master has done that). In doing so, he has taught the sub/slave to accept those things which he wishes to do. It does not have to be an unhealthy relationship.

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/29/2006 10:04:12 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I DO know the difference between TOO much consideration and a reciprocal effort, too.

Even a rather spoiled girl can know when to be thankful.

agirl

And so she should!

Absolutely..........and I should know.........lol

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/29/2006 10:12:33 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I'm not understanding the connection that a Master having the right to do whatever he likes equates to him not taking care of his sub/slave. What if "whatever he likes" means exactly that - taking care of his sub? There are many Masters who prefer to dote on their slaves and pamper them, despite outside criticism that they "should not." There are many who spend their time investing in their sub/slave's self confidence, esteem, strength and love for self, because they wish a sub/slave with those qualities (my Master has done that). In doing so, he has taught the sub/slave to accept those things which he wishes to do. It does not have to be an unhealthy relationship.

Hello A/all,

I would have to agree to this 100%.

It is my dynamic. I do what I want in it. I want to care for, nurture, pamper, have sex with, beat silly, dote upon, order dinner for, etc., my submissive.

I think I express my Dominance in an extremely selfish manner.

"Shut your cake hole, strumpet, and eat your Cioppino!"

And what I have always yearned for is a submissive who expresses that in an extremely selfish manner.

"Yes Daddy, thank you for ordering this lovely Cioppino for me, would you like some more wine?"

But that is just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/29/2006 10:22:19 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
"Shut your cake hole, strumpet, and eat your Cioppino!"

Mmmm you give her Cioppino?? She is spoiled!!

(FYI best Cioppino I've had is at Aliotto's in SF)

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/29/2006 10:29:07 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
"Shut your cake hole, strumpet, and eat your Cioppino!"

Mmmm you give her Cioppino?? She is spoiled!!

(FYI best Cioppino I've had is at Aliotto's in SF)

So she asks me "How can I eat my Cioppino with my cake hole shut?"

It is times like these which make me want to live in a swamp, put up signs, and let people know I am a terrifying ogre.

Shrekergy.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/29/2006 2:26:13 PM

LordODiscipline

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

Well yes, a Dom/Master has the right to do whatever he likes.

If the Dom/Master cares for or is invested in his sub, this statement goes right out the window. Statements like these are childishly absurb.

We are talking about real people here, not characters in an Anne Rice Book.

And, you are talking in absolutes without foundation -

The assumption you are making is that the dominant would automatically (without reservation) harm the submissive without a care...

Just because someone can "do as they like" does not mean they would automatically "like to be a sociopath".

Let's try to maintain some real world perspective here.

Perhaps (and, this is just a reach here) - the dominant would like to do things that would not harm the submissive?

I do what I want with my girl.. however, as yet, I have not wanted her dead or maimed.

~J

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