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RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 6:31:38 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline 		Very interesting topic - thank you to the op. Selfishness - according to who? The Dom may not think they are being selfish at all, but quite controlling.
 
i've found that so much in a relationship is a matter of perspective and so communicate, communicate, communicate. If  i'm really having a hard time with something Master wants or does, i have to tell Him my real feelings, not some idealistic concept of how i think i or He "should" feel or be. i've found being a slave is exciting because it's scary - it's scary to reveal who i truly am and what i truly feel and hope that i won't be rejected or ridiculed for it.
 
Yes, at times it's very humiliating to reveal what i really feel and think, and i'm not one to get off much on this kind of humiliation, but in the long run it creates a more trusting relationship. No matter what Master does, feels, thinks, wants, needs etc., and slave or no slave, i am ultimately responsible for my reactions.

_____________________________


She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 6:36:12 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

1. Everyone can be selfish
2. Personality does not give anyone "rights"
3. Everyone can be selfish
4. Calling someone on their personal idiocy is not an automatic denunciation of one's personality...
5. Everyone can be selfish
6. Some people who call themselves dominant and submissive definitively are not but find themselves in a position to try to be in order to belong to something that they do not understand but will rationalize the piss out of in order to not understand that they do not understand - as they want to belong more than they want to really understand themselves.
7. Everyone can be selfish
8. If you do not beleive this entire thing you are not dominant and/or submissive (whatever you claimed to be before reading this)
9. I am dominant
10. I am selfish
 
~J


Oh, and I had you pegged so wrong.

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 7:04:18 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

I wanted to add, we are all selfish. Every single one of us. Even us submissive people are selfish because we want to live a certain way and search it out. There was an episode of Friends that Joey told Phoebe that there was no such thing as a selfless act and then Phoebe spent the episode trying to prove him wrong but could not. Now this is basically popcorn philosophy like someone saying no one can say they have never lied. The point I am badly trying to make is that being selfish is normal but like any other behavior it becomes a problem only when it is exagerated to the point of causing harm to other or to themselves.



Lovely points, toservez, but I wanted to point something you.

You may call it popcorn philosophy but the impossibility of a selfless act (altruism) is a central tenet to Buddhism.

Nothing exists outside of one's own consciousness, therefore, how can something one (allegedly) does to something that does not really exist outside of one's own consciousness qualify as "selfless?"

What Buddhism teaches is that people should do acts which appear altruistic to others, because of what effect doing them creates on the one doing them's consciousness.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/25/2006 7:12:53 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		I think it is all dependant upon the relationship such as a certain meeting of the minds, length of relationship,wether it is a consistent level of what you might feel is selfishness on the Dominants part,wether you are unhappy in this situation,wether your paths are at a cross roads and you are thinking one way and he another, wether lines of communication are open or closed by the Dominant..ad infinitum....so I guess IMO if selfishness is occasional then ok..if it in someway is detrimental to other aspects of your life and more unreasonable demands are being made and you as the submissive are expected to the exclusion of all else in your life to meet these demands no matter what then maybe this particular dynamic is not feasible ....Tempting

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 1:49:52 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~ Fast Reply ~

I can't speak for other dynamics, only mine, and yes, Master can be as selfish as he wishes.  But he knows that being so "selfish" feeds me since I live to give him what he wants of me.  I have driven two hours give to give him something he wanted, only to turn around and go back home 10 minutes later.  I was thrilled for the opportunity to see him, smell him, feel him, even briefly.  He knows this, so he periodically does this just to give me that opportunity again.  I love to work for him.  I love to go out of my way for him.  I am grateful any time he demands something of me.  Sure beats the alternative.

On the flip side, being "selfish" does not mean he doesn't look out for my well being - physically, mentally and emotionally.  It means he gets what he wants, and while doing so, I am cared for, happy and fulfilled.

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 2:21:40 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

1. Everyone can be selfish
2. Personality does not give anyone "rights"
3. Everyone can be selfish
4. Calling someone on their personal idiocy is not an automatic denunciation of one's personality...
5. Everyone can be selfish
6. Some people who call themselves dominant and submissive definitively are not but find themselves in a position to try to be in order to belong to something that they do not understand but will rationalize the piss out of in order to not understand that they do not understand - as they want to belong more than they want to really understand themselves.
7. Everyone can be selfish
8. If you do not beleive this entire thing you are not dominant and/or submissive (whatever you claimed to be before reading this)
9. I am dominant
10. I am selfish
 
~J


Oh, and I had you pegged so wrong.


Well - at least one of us is batting 1000 on the characterization of the other
 
~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 3:46:58 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

So to me that magic line is when my Master NEVER considers me when doing something or ordering something. Again another  lame example, I would expect him to ask me to get him a drink if we were together but I think he would be going too far if he called me on my cellphone when I am outside working in the garden to get him a drink when he is ten feet away from the refridgerator.


Funny, Jewel has called me out from under a car i had up on jackstands changing the oil filter on to get her lunch. If i had come in to find her making her own lunch i would have asked why she did not just call me. Perhaps i am the one being selfish there as i would have been dismayed to find out i had been deprived of fixing her lunch.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

This is what has me concerned about the lifestyle - lack of respect.  I may want to be a sub but not a slave - I'm still a human and would hope to be looked upon as such. 


Why do you think that slaves are not respected or human beings?
 
I am probably quite spoiled as to the way they care for me and the things they provide for me as a human being, but that does not negate the fact that i am their slave.
 
I think both Scooter and Jewel have a great deal of respect for me, as a slave and a human being. What that has to do with providing them service when they wish i do not comprehend.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 4:53:09 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken


What i am asking is do you, personally, feel that a dominant has the right to selfishly demand whatever, whenever, from you, and in your personal relationship, just because one is DOM, lol, without having at least some consideration for the subs feelings or thoughts? 
 
i am looking for perspectives and personal experiences in this area, whether they are good or otherwise, and how they ere or were not resolved.  As in has anyone ever had to deal or decided to leave?  Like i said, i understand how this dynamic works within the context of a healthy and balanced relationship or connection between those involved.  Hope this clarifies it for you. *smile


I've felt unappreciated and suffered that type of behaviour from husbands.......never from my Master. The result of being *used* or taken for granted without consideration IS unhappiness...unless that's what you wished for and want. Few people REALLY wish for it in the pure sense.

Yes, I think he has the *right* to demand anything he chooses from me because that is the TYPE of relationship I chose..........the difference is, I chose, knew and understood that it was the case. It wouldn't be a form of manipulation or pressure or a cause of unhappiness.

It's not the *acts* of selfishness that make people unhappy and sad.......the root of that is in the core of the whole relationship and how much your *worth* is shown to be worth.

agirl











(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 8:21:27 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		Great thoughts folks, thank you all so much.  i started this thread with a young couple in mind, who have been asking me for advice concerning their D/s dynamic.  Just hoping it would help them sort out some issues they had been experiencing in this area. They are so new to this way of life, and i am encouraging them to join some groups of interest and come online and read/learn more about other's experiences and perspectives.  It can be very confusing for some in the beginning.   
 
Just some thought on the topic.  i don't equate laziness to selfishness.  i get lazy at times too, those days where i know that i need take a break and relax into my comfy couch and don't want to move unless i absolutely have to! *grin    i am pretty much in agreement with most of what was shared.   i have always been the type of person that enjoys going out of my way for others, it is just a part of how i express my affections.  It fulfills me to be able to give of myself in that way, especially to those i serve.
 
However, if it gets to the point that i am the only one doing the giving and i am not getting enough back, i will make this known.  As nothing or no one can run on and on without being refueled.  When i was yonger, it was fine to settle for less than what i may have actually needed to receive back.  i had boundless energy and an endless supply of self nurture to last a good long while.  It didn't begin to catch up to me until years later, after becoming a parent and still working a full time job, going to college and serving a Master 24/7.  He was very demanding, and grew selfish in nature.  Not lazy, but selfishly demanding, and not concerned that i may be overworked and not rested enough.  Ah, live and learn. *grin
 

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 8:32:44 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Raiken it really is simple- long term relationships work happily when everyone works towards the fulfillment of the relationship.

A heck of a lot of people in the scene have no clue how to do that and DO use their orientations as an excuse or to blame the other person.  I can't tell you the number of times I've helped console a sub who was punished because she couldn't orgasm with another woman playing with her, or console doms who were told they weren't being "dom enough" because they enjoyed going out to the movies as much as they enjoyed flogging.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 8:47:59 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		i feel ya on that one LA, i believe the same way.  When folks come together, they both need to define a common goal and interest with regard to their relationship, and make it a priority between them and work on this together.  Tough lessons in the begining for some, as too much definition and labeling can cause confusion and division.  What once was normal, like going to the movies, suddenly becomes blown all out of proportion. All of a sudden it just aint kewl...sigh  i have also had subs come to me for comforting, in the midst of their confusion and inner turmoil, especially when they realized they were not cut out to be part of poly living, or were not able to share, while their dominants were demanding this.  There is a line...we each have to find it for ourselves and then determine if it can be pushed, removed, or if it should remain in place.



< Message edited by raiken -- 10/26/2006 8:49:04 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 9:15:41 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Dominance is sexy and selfishness is not.

Its up to the subs to remind Doms that there's a difference between the two. The trick is telling the DOM without upsetting the apple cart.

The other tricky thing is that the line between selfishness and sexiness shifts over time. What was sexy or dominant in the beginning may become selfish later on and visa-versa.

("Doing the dishes" either gets old or sexy over time.)

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/26/2006 9:20:23 AM >

(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 10:01:16 AM   
emdoub


Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline 		I'm remarkably selfish, and it has nothing at all to do with my being dominant.

I do differentiate between wise selfishness and stoopid selfishness. 

If I'm in a relationship with someone who provides something I want, it's wise of me to make sure that they're getting what they want - or they'll go away, and I won't get what I want.

That doesn't make me any less selfish - I just hope it makes me less stoopid.

Arrogant?  Well, that's another of my good points - but a topic for a later thread, methinks.

Midnight Writer
(mine!  Mine!  All Mine!  Wheee!)

_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 10:30:15 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		When it comes to time I'm very selfish and prefer to use it working ( I have very interesting work, to me anyway.) than on a sub which is why I live alone. If you choose to be in a relationship then that person deserves some consideration but all too often they expect too much consideration which comes back to me choosing to live alone.

(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 10:34:42 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		~fast reply~
i think a certain amout of selfishness is normal and to be expected.. i also know that for me at least if my feelings,needs and desires are ignored or if my attempts at getting those met are called manipulation. i won't be in the relatioship for long

(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 10:51:15 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

When it comes to time I'm very selfish and prefer to use it working ( I have very interesting work, to me anyway.) than on a sub which is why I live alone. If you choose to be in a relationship then that person deserves some consideration but all too often they expect too much consideration which comes back to me choosing to live alone.


Interesting though as it makes me wonder how much consideration that you feel is too much?

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 10:52:25 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

Arrogant?  Well, that's another of my good points - but a topic for a later thread, methinks.

Midnight Writer
(mine!  Mine!  All Mine!  Wheee!)


Hehehe...nothing wrong with a good dose of healthy arrogance! *grin

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 10:55:11 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Dominance is sexy and selfishness is not.

Its up to the subs to remind Doms that there's a difference between the two. The trick is telling the DOM without upsetting the apple cart.

Why does that have to be left up to the sub? *grin

The other tricky thing is that the line between selfishness and sexiness shifts over time. What was sexy or dominant in the beginning may become selfish later on and visa-versa.

("Doing the dishes" either gets old or sexy over time.)

Yup! Seen it happen...that ole saying..."the very things she was attracted to in me, have become the very things she can't stand about me now".

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 11:02:52 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

~fast reply~
i think a certain amout of selfishness is normal and to be expected.. i also know that for me at least if my feelings,needs and desires are ignored or if my attempts at getting those met are called manipulation. i won't be in the relatioship for long


Ah...you bring up an interesting thought.   i have seen this.  The dom just won't give in for what ever the reasons. The sub is left feeling like something is missing, or feels deprived, neglected, or unfulfilled in some way that is not healthy. The dom can't or won't see it, or just doesn't wish to make an effort or an attempt to understand. Or dom is just plain lazy, and hopes time will work itself out.  Or, dom  waits for sub to master themself, then dom takes credit.   Or the dom may just not have it inside, and can't even go there. So many situations where folks are mismatched in areas that may not be able to be worked out.

This often causes the sub to react or behave in ways that are not to the doms liking. Because by this time, the sub is getting strained, stressed, anxious, frustrated or even desperate, to get the dom to see the need. The dom then calls it manipulation, and this seems to make the dom free of having to accept responsiblility and take action, by putting it back on the sub.

Edited because hit send by mistake. *grin

< Message edited by raiken -- 10/26/2006 11:08:08 AM >

(in reply to liljoy)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right t... - 10/26/2006 11:05:33 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

When it comes to time I'm very selfish and prefer to use it working ( I have very interesting work, to me anyway.) than on a sub which is why I live alone. If you choose to be in a relationship then that person deserves some consideration but all too often they expect too much consideration which comes back to me choosing to live alone.


I am very selfish also.

I DO know the difference between TOO much consideration and a reciprocal effort, too.

Even a rather spoiled girl can know when to be thankful.

agirl

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 60
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