quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

But maybe we should let her make her own mind up about what to say, and not put words into her mouth, especially as no-one has the right to speak for her other than herself and her Master.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

One common theme I hear as a domme is the sub who wants "no-limits" slavery.
I had one of them present the topic in this way:


"Consensual slavery is, by it's very nature, a paradox. The parties enter into a verbal (or written) contract stating that one will be used by the other for the pleasure of both. It's like the "slave" saying, "use me for Your pleasure , but only if it pleases me. i act like i don't want You to, but secretly i really do." [...]

For example, one person pretends to be a slave and another person pretends to be a master, but that are just roles they play, nothing they really are. If one party is no longer willing to participate the play, she or he utters a certain word, the so-called safeword, to stop the play.

Another theory is that one person declares one time her or his will to participate at the play, and that free declaration is all what is needed to make the play consensual, and if the person changes her or his mind, it is legitimate to continue the game without their consent, since the first declaration is all that is needed. As far as I know, the first view is much more common....."


In a way, I see the point. In another way, I see that I would not want to hold someone against their will. To me, the former is a scene and the latter is a relationship. I personally think the responsibility put upon the dominant and the sub is immense, if they do venture beyond mere "play."

Thoughts, please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Contrary to what some have expressed in this thread, the thinking, knowing slave who serves unconditionally is not born of an accidental madness. To suggest so would be to declare all those who have given their very lives for a flag, a cause, a diety or a love equally derranged.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Contrary to what some have expressed in this thread, the thinking, knowing slave who serves unconditionally is not born of an accidental madness. To suggest so would be to declare all those who have given their very lives for a flag, a cause, a diety or a love equally derranged.

Actually, there's a rather substantial difference between the two.  Those who have given their lives for a flag (actually, for a country of which the flag is merely a symbol), a cause, a diety, or a love have not done so unconditionally.  The condition was that they believed in what the country, cause, diety or love stands for and, on that condition, made the ultimate sacrifice.

quote:

Slavery as has been described by daddysprop, for instance, allows no such judgment on the slave's part.  The Master can be "wrong", despicable, a raving lunatic, a bloodthirsty serial killer, and she still claims that it would be her obligation to serve and would do so.  She does not have to believe in him, or even believe him.  She doesn't have to think that he's "worthy" of her service or sacrifice. 
 
Perhaps that is an inconsequential difference in your view.  It is not in mine.
 
John

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Contrary to what some have expressed in this thread, the thinking, knowing slave who serves unconditionally is not born of an accidental madness. To suggest so would be to declare all those who have given their very lives for a flag, a cause, a diety or a love equally derranged.

Actually, there's a rather substantial difference between the two. Those who have given their lives for a flag, a cause, a diety, or a love have not done so unconditionally. The condition was that they believed in what the country, cause, diety or love stands for and, on that condition, made the ultimate sacrifice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Here is the line...don't cross it. As long as you titilate, fascinate and amuse me, I'll play slave for you. As long as you don't seem to make unreasonable demands on me (and I'll be the one who determines if they are reasonable or not) or cause me to fall when we dance at the edge, I'll play slave for you. As long as there is no risk, I'll kneel before you and call you Master but as soon as you take me outside of my comfort zone, this game is over. Well, for some of us, this isn't a game. It's simply who we are, without condition and yes, without limit. You can put forth all the 'what if' scenarios you like but I don't know a whole lot of people who live 'what if' lives, M/s, vanilla or otherwise but that does seem to be the standard rebuttal when dealing with the issue.

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ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hercuckslave

Rover,  how can you be so full of yourself?  From the looks of things, you really have no reason to have such a high opinion of yourself and your sense of truth.  you don't know me, Mistress, how we live, what we've negotiated, what our power exchange entails, and what my limits, if any, are.  When i said i gave myself to Mistress with NO LIMITS, that is precicely what I meant.  i have gone way beyond what i "thought" were my "limits" since becoming Mistress' slave.  What i said was my only limits are HER LIMITS.  When entering into my slavery with Mistress, i did so with NO LIMITES OF MY OWN.  who are you to contradict people you have never met? 

you seem to have taken this thread to respond to everyone you disagree with, and as an opportunity to spout out your version of truth.  get over yourself man.  your truth is your truth....period.  don't try to push it on others, and don't believe for a minute you know what my life is like. 

GET OVER YOURSELF MAN. 

M's m

You're obviously taking a logical discussion far too personal.  Feelings have no place in a logical discussion.  And by participating in such a discussion, I'm not "pushing" my truth on anyone.  Though it's possible that the mere existence of a differing opinion, expressed in a public forum, causes you to question your own truth (not entirely a bad thing, by the way). 
 
No need to feel insecure, differing opinions surround us daily.
 
John

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ORIGINAL: Hercuckslave

it must be hard being so smart.  i'm sure it is a burden.

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ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hercuckslave

it must be hard being so smart.  i'm sure it is a burden.

Actually, I just get by on my looks. 
 
John

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ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

"...a thread about love and D/s and if Mistresses ever love their slaves.  "

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ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

Rover- I mean absolutely no offense when I say this to you.. but I recall not long ago that you began a thread about love and D/s and if Mistresses ever love their slaves. 
Since it appears to me that you have not been in a situation such as the sort that many here are in- and have been in- you are not qualified to judge.  I assure you that you opinions will change in time.  
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

I know a few people who could REALLY do with attending Sinergy's classes 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear WhiteRadiance, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In the context of Consensual enslavement in modern terms, in which a dominant wished a 'no limits' slave; usually seeks someone to mold into their 'style' of the relationship dynamic, as well as to grow with and continue with, hopefully, for a very, very long time.
 
Everybody has limits regardless of what side of the whip they're on; as real life puts limits on things, finances, family, health as well as time and ability.  Starting at the bottom, at the beginning of the relationship there is so much to learn about each other.  Refining, defining, re-defining elements within the relationship, as well as the consensual participation is no different in trying things as to make a marriage work or any other relationship.  There will be give and take in all relationships, the degrees are unique to that relationship.  A dominant wears many hats per se, guiding, supporting and challenging their limits as to see just how brave and wonderful they are, because they tried and or tried and succeeded.  Like marriage, those joining in a consensual union with each other will often make known and make sure there is an understanding as well as comprehend on what they both will join on a journey together.  Each adult chooses to consent within first or, permission if you will; to strike off in this journey with another in the opposite role.  It is a special companionship in my mind's eye, that I had with my slaves, not just suffering pain, doing domestic chores and service in so many ways service can be described.  But, its the faithful companion in the journey as well as in a relationship, it takes work and effort on both parts.  In time, limits are just limits but, not really 'deal breakers.'  It takes work, compensating and listening to each other.  For all our flaws as humans, regardless of which side of the whip we choose as our calling; finding that 'other' that accepts the other--flaws and all, with a shared quest to always seeking to reach higher, improve and grow; especially within the relationship and life's choice.
 
Slaves are usually the focus of 'consent' and or 'non-consent,' but, I like to add dominants have to consent as well.  It starts within, the weight of what will be required, not all play and or giggles and grins.  But, the responsibility is self imposed, as well as dominant's consent to join in the union as dominant, Master/slave, Dominant/Submissive, Daddy/girl/boy, etc.  Slaves entrust their Masters/Mistresses and Masters and Mistresses entrust their slaves with their welfare and state of being.  Certainly able to take care of ourselves in an adult and mature way, independent of each other; it is a joining by consent, as well as by desire, need, want and what ever sense of duty, peace, catharsis, healing and or contentment--that is really the recipe for a relationship. 
 
But, relationships can be brief to long term.  I see consensual slavery, with knowing once they commit, its a commitment to present and future, known and unknown and the commitment to 'us' (in the context of a intended long term relationship).  It is no different then entering a marriage by saying I do.  It is a commitment, an oath/bond, a contract.  No relationship, no marriage, no family and or M/s and or D/s relationship comes with a fool proof manual.  Its hard work within the relationship and at the last resort, asking for outside help.
 
Those who 'play at marriage,' or 'play at M/s and or D/s' --might be serious for that moment in the scene, the hours together.  But, once they part ways-- they are as they came.  When they decide to make it serious, then they will commit as well as consent, entering into another level entirely, perhaps reaching to many more levels.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

Rover- I mean absolutely no offense when I say this to you.. but I recall not long ago that you began a thread about love and D/s and if Mistresses ever love their slaves. 
Since it appears to me that you have not been in a situation such as the sort that many here are in- and have been in- you are not qualified to judge.  I assure you that you opinions will change in time.  
 

To begin, what situation do you presume that I have not been in?  And since when has the lack of personal experience EVER been an impediment to the rendering of one's opinion on these boards?  Seriously.
 
John