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ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
BTW....notice how many times you refer to 'i, me and my' in your post?   Does that tell you something? 

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ORIGINAL: darksdesire

adaddy'sgirl:

why the anger?  what an interesting heated and emotionally intense response to a rather benign post. 

Anger?  lol  i didn't feel anythig near anger when  i wrote that response....nor do i now.  i was not emotional in any sense.  It appears your emotional truth is rearing its little head again.
 
 i simply made the point that in your mind....in your abstract emotional truth....you call yourself a no limits slave when in the literal sense....you are not a no limits slave.  i don't see anything attacking about that.  You pretty much said that yourself anyway.....didn't you?

the use of i, me, and my is a way of taking clear cut responsibility for my own opinions and ideas.  In other words, there is no effort here to force those thoughts on others but to take full responsibility for those ideas that pertain to my own reality.  Your post contained no i, me, or my, but lots of "you".   That comes across as inflamatory and attacking. 

my 'yous' were in response to your 'mes'.  Your post revolved solely around your conception of no limit slaves and justification of calling yourself such when it has no bearing on the depth of the no limits we have been talking about here.

You sadly failed to acknowledge the point in the post...which is the difference between literal and emotional truth. If you will read carefully, you will notice that nowhere did i claim to be a "no limits" slave in the literal sense.  i intend to  communicate respectfully with you and others who post.  Please extend the same courtesy to myself and others.

Oh, i think i made proper use of the difference.  i know you did not say you were no limits in a literal sense....because that obviously would not be the reality of it.  
 
You can call yourself a no limits slave in any context you wish, but if is not in the literal sense that the people here have shared with me, then i get to openly distinguish that difference.  How's that?
 
And i speak respectfully to those whom i feel respect for so.....perhaps in some abstract way...you can finish the rest of this sentence.
 
DG    

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ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

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ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
BTW....notice how many times you refer to 'i, me and my' in your post?   Does that tell you something? 

Should it?

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ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

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ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

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ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
BTW....notice how many times you refer to 'i, me and my' in your post?   Does that tell you something? 

Should it?

That everything is according to her perception and opinion....and really none of it pertained to the reality of others as we have been talking about here. 
 
She can say in a hundred ways "i am the Queen of England"; "i believe i am the Queen of England"; in my opinion i am the Queen of England".....because that is my emotional truth...but then you open the door for others to say "but in reality, you are not the Queen of England."  I'ts pretty simple, don't ya think?

DG
 
 

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

. there are many things that, if i had the freedom to set my own limits, i would choose not to do. there are plenty of things that tickle and delight him, that horrify me. and there are a couple of things that i would have no issue doing or engaging in, which are currently personal limits of my Master's. so, i did not get into this union knowing i had found someone who shared my boundaries/limits. quite the opposite actually...i knew we had many areas where we differed. but i understood that once i became property, any limits of my own would fly out the window. the only limits i have are those he sets for me, for his own personal reasons, and these are ever-changing.

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
You yourself admit if you had the freewill to choose that you would have limits.  Just because you have consented to slavehood doesn't equate to your limits being sent out the window so to speak.   They are still there within your personal psyche and each and every time that your Master takes action that pushes these limits.. you can feel the personal gratification of submitting to his will as you put aside your limits for his.  A slave who is with a Master that has compatiable limits will never feel that push or that personal gratification that you experience and a few others do as well.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

So maybe we're saying the same thing, only differently?

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Eddited to add (because I'm still pondering this):  But then once we surpass that which seems horrific, and it no longer seems horrific, it is no longer a "limit" even in my mind. Hmmm....more thoughts may be forthcoming...

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
That is the beauty of growth... we evolve... both in limits and preferences coming and going.  Stating No limits is applicable to only this moment in time... and doesn' equate to our linear progression of time and all that is possible in our future.  We just might never come to a limit in our relationship.. but then again we just might.  I can't tell the future, but I do know If I don't take a step... I will never trip.  However, if I never take a step.. I will never be more than I am today.   I find most take steps... and thus take pm the inherent risks of tripping with each step they take.

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

After reading this thread in its entirety it gave me pause to ponder something i would like input on.  If one is a no-limits slave to a Master - one like prop has described herself to be, that no matter what, dislike of command, opposition to her values, illegality, grave danger and even death... i have to question what it is that such an individual really is enslaved to?  Is it the Master or their own extreme need to obey and submit at any cost?  And as for the other side of the coin - and i readily admit i don't see or experience life through that side as i identify as a submissive, but what value would such a slave hold for that Master?  If i had a slave and i told her to stay outside in the frigid cold (for whatever purpose that might be - maybe to chop firewood (silly example maybe)) but what if i went back inside, made myself a cup of coffee, sat in my easy chair, turned on the tv and fell asleep? i would wake up to an icesicle pop slave.  What a burden this is for the Master!  Isn't a slaves role to enhance life and make it easier for him?  Seems this very radical way of interaction rather serves the slaves deeper need to be "really and truly enslaved" more then it does truly serve the Master's needs. 

i don't think it's a burden to the Master if that is what he expects...and has commanded.  If the Master says 'if i don't come out and get you and you are going to freeze, then you are allowed to come in'....then of course, the slave would.  But if the Master specifically commands that the slave stay outside until he comes to get her, then that is what she will do....well at least in the way prop was stating it.  And if this is the case, and this is what the Master expects, then it seems it would enhance his life....or else why would he do it?

All in all i agree as well - no such thing as no limits. Even the most sincere and well intentioned slave will, at some point, encounter some along the way.  Humans have survival instincts and when they are threatened you have no way of knowing how you are going to react - it won't even be in your control to stop it. 

But if you truly read what prop was saying, she has no survival instinct.  Now whether one wants to question that or not, is up to them, but if that is what someone is saying, then personally,  i have to believe it.
 
i see lots of slaves say they have limits (of some sort or another).  There was just a thread about a slave engaging in scat if her Master so desired.  Most said no....a few said yes, if that was what he wanted, wished, commanded, willed...whatever phrase you want to use.
 
Prop is not the only proclaimed 'no limit slave'.  If you read the 'sister thread' to this....Everyone has limits....started by bitatruble....you will see that there are others who also make this claim.  That being the case, i am not sure how someone can say 'there is no such thing as no limits'.   If others truly live that existence, how am i to judge otherwise?  *shrugs*
 
DG

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
i don't think it's a burden to the Master if that is what he expects...and has commanded.....

The burden is in having to pre think everything FOR the slave, he has no room for error in owning a slave like that. When you literally have to protect someone from themselves even when it might never be your intention to harm them, that's a burden in my eyes. 

But if you truly read what prop was saying, she has no survival instinct.  Now whether one wants to question that or not, is up to them, but if that is what someone is saying, then personally,  i have to believe it.
 
Instincts are not something we choose to have or not have.  A slave who is set on fire i can assure you will do anything to put that fire out once it starts to burn her skin.   A slave being strangled will, once she feels herself lacking oxygen is going to start to struggle.  i agree she can have the intention to allow him to do those things, but her instincts, once they are initiated, will kick in.

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

. there are many things that, if i had the freedom to set my own limits, i would choose not to do. there are plenty of things that tickle and delight him, that horrify me. and there are a couple of things that i would have no issue doing or engaging in, which are currently personal limits of my Master's. so, i did not get into this union knowing i had found someone who shared my boundaries/limits. quite the opposite actually...i knew we had many areas where we differed. but i understood that once i became property, any limits of my own would fly out the window. the only limits i have are those he sets for me, for his own personal reasons, and these are ever-changing.

mmmmmmm  you seem to think that because your Master's choice of limits takes priority that it equates to you having no limits.  Frankly, this is no different than two individuals that come together with compatiable limits except for one thing

You yourself admit if you had the freewill to choose that you would have limits.  Just because you have consented to slavehood doesn't equate to your limits being sent out the window so to speak.   They are still there within your personal psyche and each and every time that your Master takes action that pushes these limits.. you can feel the personal gratification of submitting to his will as you put aside your limits for his.  A slave who is with a Master that has compatiable limits will never feel that push or that personal gratification that you experience and a few others do as well.

and to others.... Limits seem to indicate for many a distinction of Healthy existence and an unhealthy one.  Limits themselves don't need to equate to this.  I don't like spinach and I never will eat spinach.  This is a limit to me... but yet if I was to um cross this limit.. and eat spinach.. well I don't thing I would be harmed.  Sometimes limits are just about preferences and nothing more.  For myself.. I equate actions that would be harmful to a person as being Boundaries.  Yes Boundaries are a limit.. but in my conversations with my girls they understand that they is a huge distinction between boundaries and limits.  When it comes to my girls... I cross their self-imposed limits all the time.... they after all have consented to follow my will.  they consenting amoung other things for one rule that I hold myself to... Do thy Will but harm none.  So to me my girls boundaries are scared territory.  I like to drive my 1965 mustang really fast...and I can't do that if I destroy it.  Of course.. this equates to my own Ethical Principles of Ownership.  Some owners have little regard for their property.  This doesn't mean they are a Master and I am not... just means that my Ethical Principles as a Master are different.  Sadly in my opinion... many slaves consent to what I consider as Unethical Masters...  and they wonder why they are victims.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

The burden is in having to pre think everything FOR the slave, he has no room for error in owning a slave like that. When you literally have to protect someone from themselves even when it might never be your intention to harm them, that's a burden in my eyes. 
 
And again, being a burden in your eyes might not make it a burden in his eyes.

Instincts are not something we choose to have or not have.  A slave who is set on fire i can assure you will do anything to put that fire out once it starts to burn her skin.   A slave being strangled will, once she feels herself lacking oxygen is going to start to struggle.  i agree she can have the intention to allow him to do those things, but her instincts, once they are initiated, will kick in.
 
i don't think we're even talking about the fact if someone would struggle, as a natural bodily response, if they were being strangled....slave or no slave.  The point was that they have stated they would accept such treatment from their Master...that death was not a limit for them.
 
Look at those who commit suicide.  Where did their self preservation instincts go?  When they jumped off that chair and hung themselves, they knew they were going to die.  Or when they put the hose from their muffler into their tightly sealed car and went to sleep, they knew they would never wake up again.
 
You seem to make your opinions into definitives.  my conclusions were drawn from information which others who exist this way have reported.   They were not my opinions.   Now if you can really disprove what these others have said, i would be glad to listen.
 
DG

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

After reading this thread in its entirety it gave me pause to ponder something i would like input on.  If one is a no-limits slave to a Master - one like prop has described herself to be, that no matter what, dislike of command, opposition to her values, illegality, grave danger and even death... i have to question what it is that such an individual really is enslaved to?  Is it the Master or their own extreme need to obey and submit at any cost?  And as for the other side of the coin - and i readily admit i don't see or experience life through that side as i identify as a submissive, but what value would such a slave hold for that Master?  If i had a slave and i told her to stay outside in the frigid cold (for whatever purpose that might be - maybe to chop firewood (silly example maybe)) but what if i went back inside, made myself a cup of coffee, sat in my easy chair, turned on the tv and fell asleep? i would wake up to an icesicle pop slave.  What a burden this is for the Master!  Isn't a slaves role to enhance life and make it easier for him?  Seems this very radical way of interaction rather serves the slaves deeper need to be "really and truly enslaved" more then it does truly serve the Master's needs. 

All in all i agree as well - no such thing as no limits. Even the most sincere and well intentioned slave will, at some point, encounter some along the way.  Humans have survival instincts and when they are threatened you have no way of knowing how you are going to react - it won't even be in your control to stop it. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

now as to not destroying what is yours, as you said that is part of your own personal ethics as a Master. other Masters find great pleasure in destroying or damaging what is theirs. either way, that would be about the Master's personal limits (or boundaries if you will) and not those of the slave.

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ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i think what a lot of "no limit" people are trying to say is they dont have the ability to say No.  They dont have a say in the normal course of things.  i know when it comes down to it, i dont have a say.  There is no - let me think about it, i'm not in the mood, i dont feel well, not tonight, eh i'm not interested.  There is no "No"  In the normal course of things.  Alot of subs and slave have limits like - no being with the same sex, no this and no that, and no this and no that and the list goes on.  For KOM it'd be something silly like "no spinach"  Nothing drastic, nothing extrme, but things that people refuse to do. 

What the "no limit" people are saying that in a normal course of things this is not an option.  I have a personal limit of eating at Applebee's.  I hate the whole food chain and have refused to enter any of its resturants in over 5 years.  Yet if my Dom said we were eating at Applebee's, i'd be eating at applebee's.  There is no refusal. 

What i think is being argued is that the "non no limits" people are taking things way to the extreme, heck everyone is - and saying that is impossible to be no limits.  I know, if my Dom handed me a meat grinder and told me to grind my own hand the thing would be broken and i'd be out the door in 2 secs flat. 

So would you consider this a limit....a boundary you would not cross if so commanded by your Master?

i think the debate would go much better if everyone could just say "i am a no limits slave in the normal course of things"  Luckily, even the definition of the normal course of things can be debatible so it could really float everyones boat.

edited to add - if anyone can say they would grind their own hand in a meat grinder - feel free to speak up and please include me when you do so.  I think the look on your face would be priceless.  That and i think i'd also like to see some one feed their own leg to a gator.

When my oldest daughter was born, i lived with her father in a one room efficiency apartment.  We had no phone and there were no cell phones then.  One night during one hell of an argument, he threatened to take my daughter and leave.  i basically told him "over my dead body" and then i sat against the door so he could not get out. 
 
Instead of fighting me, he went over to the stove and boiled a large pan of water.  He carried it over toward me and told me if i did not move, he would throw it on me.  Well, i was not budging.  i might have died or been seriously maimed....but he was not leaving with that baby as long as i was still able to move.

And that is why i proposed that rather drastic scenario of taking away one's kids to prop....to which she gave a very definitive response.  If there were any situation i would die for, it would be that.  And yes Riot, i would put my hand in a meat grinder in that case.

Now, would i do that for any other reason...or any other person (my mother, brother, partner)?  i'd say that was doubtful but i guess i would never known until put into that situation.

So i do think there are things we could, unequivocally and without a doubt, say that we would do under certain circumstances.  And everyone tries to make an example of the most drastic situation but in reality, there are people who would murder, steal, suffer grievous bodily harm and die for their kids (like me).....and others who would do it for their Masters.
 
So maybe this makes me a 'no limits mom'.   Anybody else?