quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
 Daddysprop (like myself) leads a life which is very risky 'if' her owner is a killer, a raving lunatic or maybe if he is just a clueless idiot. I know that I'm willing to take the risk that Himself is none of those things and if I'm wrong and one of his commands results in something catastrophic to my person, don't cry for me or pity me because its been a hell of a ride and I've enjoyed every crazy minute of it.  So much consternation over no limits slaves but I don't recall a thread started on no limits Masters. Is that a fabled unicorn or has the depths of humanity sunk so low as to already prove their existance? Ah well, thoughts for another day. Celeste

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

"All slaves have limits."

What horror, in all the course of human history has not been done by someone, somewhere at some time? I have to wonder at a mind which is so evil that it could come up with something that no one would be willing to do it for any reason. Murder, rape, dismemberment, serial killings, mass murder, genocide, executions, cannibalism, child killers ... all done for greed, jealousy, faith, insanity, lust, attention etc ... and yet, a slave is above such actions? What makes us so special that we will 'not' do things the rest of humanity has been doing since the dawn of time? There is always an assumption made that those who practice BDSM are 'sane'. I would question such an assumption. I'd say that the % of sane people in BDSM is fairly equivalent to the rest of the world. I mean how often has it been written that 'we' are just like everyone else?

Perhaps, if folks would change the phrase "All slaves have limits" to "All sane slaves have limits" it would be easier to swallow. Then we can debate the definition of sane. ::laughs:: As it stands though, I can't agree with it. Humanity has proven itself capable of incredible good.. and horrific evil, over and over and over again. Slaves are no exception nor are they immune to the vagaries of humanity.

Now, I state quite clearly in my profile, that I'm not sure of my sanity, so how can anyone else be sure of it? I think ya'll should count your blessings that Himself doesn't have such evil within him so that he would command me to commit atrocities upon your person.. ::giggles:: It's one of the reasons I'm with him.

Makes ya wonder, don't it? ::chuckles:: Just how much is TIC and how much is utter truth?

"All slaves have limits." May I have a copy of the limits list, please? I love to read a good fantasy and besides, with that list, maybe I can help turn Himself to the dark and evil side.



Celeste

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ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

I would never presume to try to squash any opinion, Rover. 

As I said~ I meant no offense to you.  My statement was only an attempt to point out to you that there are those here, whom you continue to judge and argue with- who are engaged in  relationships that are consensual and loving. It is difficult to adequately judge anothers beliefs or lifestyle when you have not lived it. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
 Daddysprop (like myself) leads a life which is very risky 'if' her owner is a killer, a raving lunatic or maybe if he is just a clueless idiot. I know that I'm willing to take the risk that Himself is none of those things and if I'm wrong and one of his commands results in something catastrophic to my person, don't cry for me or pity me because its been a hell of a ride and I've enjoyed every crazy minute of it.  So much consternation over no limits slaves but I don't recall a thread started on no limits Masters. Is that a fabled unicorn or has the depths of humanity sunk so low as to already prove their existance? Ah well, thoughts for another day. Celeste

Thats one of the things I find bizzare about this thread and other discussions around limits and boundaries.  The minute there is a situation where someone isn't putting up boundaries and fences around their dominant/master/insertappropriateterm around what they can or cannot do the dominant must of course be a serial killing, limb removing, put you in a freezer nutso.  Up until that point the dominant is rational but if you stop telling them that you won't have sex with dead people, then they are just gonna go batshit crazy.  And its always really funny, because its said with dead certainty by absolute strangers that they know for sure that your dominants gonna go batshit crazy and you are badshit crazy.

C~

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ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Thats one of the things I find bizzare about this thread and other discussions around limits and boundaries.  The minute there is a situation where someone isn't putting up boundaries and fences around their dominant/master/insertappropriateterm around what they can or cannot do the dominant must of course be a serial killing, limb removing, put you in a freezer nutso.  Up until that point the dominant is rational but if you stop telling them that you won't have sex with dead people, then they are just gonna go batshit crazy.  And its always really funny, because its said with dead certainty by absolute strangers that they know for sure that your dominants gonna go batshit crazy and you are badshit crazy.

C~

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ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

But see - Archer isn't saying that "all slaves have X as a limit", just that they have limits.  What limit(s) the person has is individual.

Some stop at murder - some don't.  Some, who might allow their owner to amputate a limb, would stop at seeing their owner bottom to someone else.  It's all individual.  But there *are* limits.

I believe that people who call themselves "no limits" really mean that they impose no limits on their owners that their owners do not hold for themselves.  I think it's a disingenuous way to say it, but it's as close as people can come.

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ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

Try as I might, I can't percieve a time when the BDSM community is accepted by the vanilla world in general, regardless of the level of semantic correctness.

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ORIGINAL: Rover

Actually, the issue of limits doesn't revolve around any other person, Master/Mistress or not.  Nor does it have anything to do with their sanity or limb removal prowess (though reference to such is often made for situational example).
 
Limits are innate.  In the example of limb removal, it matters not whether the Dominant is sane but has an amputee fetish (a recognized fetish, by the way), is sane but an extreme sadist unconcerned with consent or consequences (the lack of which may enhance their sadistic pleasure), is the world's biggest klutz but enjoys knife play (that's why we judge some people capable of engaging in certain play with us, and others not... so as to ensure that, in the case of this example, our limbs remain intact), or is the crazed killer who enjoys boxing up limbs and sending them off for Mother's Day. 
 
The point is, regardless of who someone is or isn't with, limb removal is still a limit.  It's their own limit, and not relative to any other external individual.
 
John

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i just wonder why some so fiercely fight to call themselves no limit slaves when that honestly is not the case

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ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

As much as it seems that what I say contradicts what you say - we actually agree on this topic.  We've had this discussion before.

We just approach it from different semantical angles.

I always find myself nodding with the jist of what you write on this topic - even though my words seem to say otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs
I don't think I've ever described myself as being a no limits slave, because I think its just to simplistic.  On the other hand I also know that I've constantly strived to adjust limits, preferences, and desires so that there are no fences up for him.  But I view that process as being much more complex and nuanced and being about so much more than just limits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: darksdesire

With the exception of Daddysprop, it seems the arguement is a reflection of whether one prefers literal, black and white language or if one prefers the more figurative, abstract language.  One thing i've learned as a writer is that there is literal truth and then there is emotional truth.   The term "no limits slave" seems to be touching on that basic difference.  In my opinion, both are valid truths. 

It wasn't with just the exception of Daddysprop.  Others do fall under the literal category of 'no limits'.  Yes, emotional truth is YOUR truth.....could be the same as literal but as i see in this case, it is not.  They are valid truths because YOU want them to be.

Rover seems focused on the literal meaning.  Literal is simple, concrete, unimaginative.  Others are focused on the abstract, which conveys more complexity, more imagination and heart.  i consider myself a "no limits slave", and this term holds more of an emotional truth than it does a literal truth. 
 
Again, this is YOUR truth.

So Rover, do i mean what i say when i call myself a "no limits slave?"  Absolutely. 

Yes, in your mind.  You were one of those i referred to that even though they do have limits, insist that they do not.  And if i recall correctly, your Master is a 'Real Master' (according to his profile).  Yes, i did ask him what made him a Real Master on another thread once and i never get an answer.  So interestingly enough, we have a self proclaimed Real Master and a self proclaimed 'no limit slave' in the same relationship.   Got a whole bunch of emotional truths going on there 

For me, the value in that term conveys a deep emotional truth that has nothing to do with the question of whether i would burn my children or allow myself to be parted from my limbs. 

Again, for YOU is doesn't.  That still does not make it a valid point.

Instead, my use of the term communicates a whole host of complex ideas and emotions that truly cannot be captured in a simple term.  What we generally do in that case, is try to capture those ideas in the best phrase or term possible.   My personal experience is that "no limits" reaches into the spiritual realm, and it is impossible to  capture this in concrete language.

i don't believe those who use that phrase are caught in some sort of "fantasy" or "play".  i don't believe they are being disingenuous.  i do believe they are attempting to communicate the heart of an emotional or even spiritual truth that otherwise defies language. 

From what you say here, it sounds like you have limits.  Therefore, literally, you are not a no limits slave.  You are a slave with limits. (See my new acronyms in another post.)  See the difference?  And to insist otherwise is your fantasy, and perhaps your partners.  It is perhaps what you would like it to be, but alas, it is not.  Admit it, accept it, and move on.
 
BTW....notice how many times you refer to 'i, me and my' in your post?   Does that tell you something? 
 
DG