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Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:31:45 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

Ok this stems from another thread...

Ok a rather green sub used the defence "I just did what Master told me"
and then got upset when one of our beloved posters (well I think she is pretty great) told her that excuse didnt fly!!

So i came in and explained that just because you are a slave doesnt mean you arent responsable for your actions

this sub then said "a good slave does as her Master says"

My reply was "this is true but that doesnt make you any less responsable for your actions"

She didnt seem to like that!!

So what I want to know is what you all think.. I personaly think its a copout and a testament to immeturity to think beeing a slave means you dont have to be responsable for your actions... but maybe thats just me.

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 11/14/2006 9:33:33 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

Post #: 1

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:35:09 PM

DreamyLadySnow

Posts: 359
Joined: 1/23/2005
Status: offline

Frankly I am so tired of hearing that phrase. It didn't wash after the Second World War and it won't wash now.
Am seeing it in my local community with a lady I know - well I said all those things and ruined all those peoples' reputations because my master said they were bad people. I'm no longer with him so what I said then doesn't count.
Um, it might count to THEM.

Grr..you just hit a sore spot MagikSlave

LS

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 2

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:37:09 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamyLadySnow

Frankly I am so tired of hearing that phrase. It didn't wash after the Second World War and it won't wash now.
Am seeing it in my local community with a lady I know - well I said all those things and ruined all those peoples' reputations because my master said they were bad people. I'm no longer with him so what I said then doesn't count.
Um, it might count to THEM.

Grr..you just hit a sore spot MagikSlave

LS

Sorry Miss I didnt mean too!!

it bothers me too thats why I posted this.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)

Post #: 3

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:39:12 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Kyra started a fabulous discussion on this subject awhile ago, well worth the read before posting anew:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_196066/mpage_1/key_responsibility/tm.htm#196066
Responsibility to Self

http://www.collarchat.com/m_312293/mpage_2/key_responsibility/tm.htm#313609
Personal Responsibility

http://www.collarchat.com/m_458412/mpage_1/key_responsibility/tm.htm#459247
Slavery/submission and personal responsibility

And thanks Magiks :)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 4

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:42:15 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Kyra started a fabulous discussion on this subject awhile ago, well worth the read before posting anew:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_196066/mpage_1/key_responsibility/tm.htm#196066
Responsibility to Self

http://www.collarchat.com/m_312293/mpage_2/key_responsibility/tm.htm#313609
Personal Responsibility

http://www.collarchat.com/m_458412/mpage_1/key_responsibility/tm.htm#459247
Slavery/submission and personal responsibility

And thanks Magiks :)

((grins at LA)) welcome... I just calls um as I sees them
((hops off to read the links))

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 5

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:42:55 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

I read that thread as well. I think what the lady in question fails to realize is that you can be both a good slave (as she termed it - be obedient) AND take responsibility for your actions. That said, they both got upset, both threw a temper tantrums and named called those who disagreed with them or called them on the theme of the thread showing quite well the maturity level at which they operate. ::shrugs:: They'll learn or they won't .. that's their choice, but despite her belief, she will be held responsible for her own actions regardless of whether or not she's 'just following orders' ... just like the rest of us.

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 11/14/2006 9:44:34 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)

Post #: 6

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:45:26 PM

diamonddreamlove

Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

I am not a slave but feel that all of us are responsible for our own decisions. That includes being safe and sane. Sir has taken responsibility for me however if His decisions are poor then it is my responsibility to make sure i am safe and not harming others. This is like a double negative for most new slave/subs. It is hard for them to understand how to turn their life over to their Master when they are also responsible for their own decisions. I agree it is hard to understand and to question my Sir would take a lot of courage LOL but when He became my Sir it was only after a lot of time and consideration. Making good selection is the most important thing in being responsibile for oneself.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 7

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:45:40 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Although we are still left with a question: Can one be a good slave and still disobey? What if the master you've chosen is a ridiculous idiot and you're just now realizing it?

I think a LOT of slaves find themselves in this predicament.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 8

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:47:42 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear MagiksSlave, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I'm rather 'Old School' myself.

In my salad days in the lifestyle, there was Rule #1. Protect yourself, even if it is from your Master/Mistress. The same rule for Masters and or Mistresses, was to Protect yourself even from your slave.

In summary, that rule for both sides of the whip, in my mind's eye was not a shoving on another, to be responsible for self. Rather, it was the main rule of being responsible for self.

Life is full of choices and consequences thereof. Learning comes from choices, knowing the effects/affects and to make a choice based on what they know and or have come to know; as well as the consequences for a variety of choices. That is responsibility, as well as owning up to that choice and not making excuses that another 'told you so.' It would be no different than being ordered to kill someone and do the killing. In the eyes of the law, the person doing the killing is guilty, the one ordering guilty of conspiracy. The killer could have said no, refuse to do the crime. The responsibility remains on the shoulders of the killer, not the person provoking the killing.

I realize, that people do not wish to be seen 'wrong.' However, nobody escapes the fact that they're human and may/can be wrong.
As long as a slave has the freedom and free will of choice, the responsibility rests on the slave's shoulder. That also can be shared responsibility if the Master/Mistress jointly made that choice.

What makes humans civilized, is the ability to make choices and give reasoning, logic and or justification for that choice. Responsibility is ownership of that choice, regardless if right or wrong.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 9

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:50:43 PM

RedSavageSlave

Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline

Soldiers can follow orders and still be tried in a court martial for their actions. Following orders doesnt suddenly create a situation where personal responsibility gets lost in a vaccuum. We all have consequences to our actions.. whether good or bad.. but the responsibility for our actions are our own.. just as the consequences are.

Point to ponder...if we were not responsible for our actions.. why do our owners still feel the need to punish us when we do wrong?? Not everything we do wrong is due to disobedience.. but we still get punished.. Why dont the owners punish themselves if they are responsible for what we do?? Shheeshh... (just waiting for the midgets to try some kind of similar argument like that to avoid punishment even though parents are responsible for them)

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 10

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:53:46 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Although we are still left with a question: Can one be a good slave and still disobey? What if the master you've chosen is a ridiculous idiot and you're just now realizing it?

I think a LOT of slaves find themselves in this predicament.

OK this is how I see it.. it really sucks if your "Master" is an idiot But if you chose to obay him and yes it is a choice that you make and there for are respopnsable for, then you are responsable for anything he tells you to do... If he tells you to kill his mother well that makes him a jerk but just because he is your Master doesnt mean he takes the responsability if your um silly (couldnt think of a word that wouldnt be rude here) enough to listen... And well you both will be in jail no court is gunna take the plea "Master told me to"

I dont know if I explained that well at all

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 11

RE: Responsability - 11/14/2006 9:55:34 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedSavageSlave

Soldiers can follow orders and still be tried in a court martial for their actions. Following orders doesnt suddenly create a situation where personal responsibility gets lost in a vaccuum. We all have consequences to our actions.. whether good or bad.. but the responsibility for our actions are our own.. just as the consequences are.

Point to ponder...if we were not responsible for our actions.. why do our owners still feel the need to punish us when we do wrong?? Not everything we do wrong is due to disobedience.. but we still get punished.. Why dont the owners punish themselves if they are responsible for what we do?? Shheeshh... (just waiting for the midgets to try some kind of similar argument like that to avoid punishment even though parents are responsible for them)

Thank you... this is exactly what I was thinking... as for the secent part LOL I have to try that on Master!!!
It wont work but he will get a good laff outta it.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to RedSavageSlave)

Post #: 12

RE: Responsability - 11/15/2006 3:04:59 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

Groans at this topic- just seems like a passive aggressive flame to me...including a lovely suck-up to get support for your flame.

If another thread inspires you to write about a subject, why make it a personal attack against someone? No one here is perfect.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 13

RE: Responsability - 11/15/2006 3:33:43 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Can one be a good slave and still disobey?

Yes, and my Lord is not even a ridiculous idiot. *g*

He classifies obedience or the lack thereof in these ways:

Mindless obedience
Thoughtful obedience
Thoughtful disobedience
Willful disobedience

I know many will not agree with this but this is how our relationship works. Only the last has the consequence of ending the M/s relationship.

I have not willfully or even thoughtfully disobeyed him in the last two years. I think if thoughtful disobedience is occuring on a regular basis then there are some underlying problems in the relationship.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 14

RE: Responsability - 11/15/2006 3:43:42 AM

imtempting

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

I simply don't get this.

Many people on these boards say subs or the so-called slaves should obey no matter what and now your saying they should disobey at times.

Those same people say no matter what they should obey, as their dominant knows best. And if you do disobey does that mean you will get in trouble as maybe their dominant wanted them to suffer an injury as much as it is sad.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 15

RE: Responsability - 11/15/2006 4:18:12 AM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

If a slave doesn't understand something or thinks a task or whatever is wrong then appropriately and respectfully he/she can ask for clarification. Otherwise I would say obedience is a necessity. If a slave screws up then the slave is repsonsible for their actions. If a Master screws up then he/she is repsonsible. Both should be adults about it and accept responsibility.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 16

RE: Responsability - 11/15/2006 4:38:31 AM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

Everyone should take personal responsibility for their own actions. I follow the orders that Master gives, but that does not absolve me from any responsibility that comes about.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 17

RE: Responsability - 11/15/2006 4:54:46 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

And yet - you are still responsible for hte thread...

Interesting.

~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamyLadySnow

Frankly I am so tired of hearing that phrase. It didn't wash after the Second World War and it won't wash now.
Am seeing it in my local community with a lady I know - well I said all those things and ruined all those peoples' reputations because my master said they were bad people. I'm no longer with him so what I said then doesn't count.
Um, it might count to THEM.

Grr..you just hit a sore spot MagikSlave

LS

Sorry Miss I didnt mean too!!

it bothers me too thats why I posted this.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 18

RE: Responsability - 11/15/2006 4:56:36 AM

amaidiamond

Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline

I give over control to my Dom, but I chose to do so - in that I am taking responsibility.
I have agreed limits, things he will not cross, again those are my responsibility.
It may be that a girl is given an order she does not agree with/like, what she then chooses to do with that is down to her, she needs to weigh up the consequence of obaying against the consequence of not obaying and come to her own conclusion, for example If he told me to torture an animal for example (and no he never would) then I would need to weigh up if disobaying was worth the possible consequence of loosing him and in that circumstance it would mean the end of my relationship but that would still be my responsibility.
Everyone is responsible for the choices they make.

Hope this makes sense.

Mel

Edited to make at least some attempt on my spelling

< Message edited by amaidiamond -- 11/15/2006 4:57:19 AM >

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 19

RE: Responsability - 11/15/2006 5:14:08 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I think some of the problem comes from books/internet sites/bad advice. I know alot of people just starting out turn to these sources for information and unfortnately alot of the info is frankly quite bad. Many of these "informational" avenues suggest that yes a slave should blindly follow what his/her Mistress/Master says no matter the consquence or they aren't being *a good slave*.

Who wants to be viewed as not being good at something that is the core of their existense? Not many. So I think a big part of the problem/confusion is the fact that so much of the information out there conflicts. One book will tell you that a slave does have personal accountability for his/her own actions in following a directive, another will tell you that a slave is property and therefore just an extension of his/her owner and therefore cannot act on his/her own. I can see why so many slaves are confused!

Personally I believe that everyone is responsible for his/her own actions and a slave is no different. You have to THINK and accept that what you are doing as a slave is YOUR personal responsiblity. Do not follow blindly when you KNOW a directive that you have been given is wrong. Because as another poster said when it comes down to it, if your doing something illegal and you are caught YOU will be proscuted for the crime, saying "Well My Master/Mistress told me too" Is not going to fly.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 20

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