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Picture ID - 12/28/2006 8:39:11 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I do not live in Russia or anything, so I do not carry a picture ID. While this is a bit political, it is something different.

I refuse to carry a picture IC or a DL. I should not need papers to travel, the is in the Constitution. Perhaps it is a bit of a personal thing, but that is not the point either.

Last year I spent over $2,000 online. Overall I have spent alot more. Alot. One item was a $1,000 computer, a dandy, 19" LCD with mercury vapor light. High P4 with a 250 gig, and a gig of RAM, ATSC TV tuner card (hi-def) and alot of goodies like a router and a quite good PC to TV convertor.

I have bought many toys online too, and many other PC parts. I have bought things that are dangerous, and even clips for an AK47.

But if I go to Officemax and want a $12 ink cartridge I need ID.

If I go to Kmart for a can of nuts I need ID.

If I go into a gas station to get cigs and $10 worth of gas I need ID, but I can slide the card into the pump and pump them dry if I got a place to put the gasoline.

I have looked into buying actual ammo (7.62X39) for the AK as well. I am not sure if USPS or UPS will handle it, or if there are new regs on it, but an ID would certainly not be the problem.

Thinking backwards, what is the motive for this ?

I think they are trying to reduce black market contractors, that is ones who don't pull peermits etc. Alot of these people can save you alot of money, and do work equivalent or better than licensed contractors. I know, I am one. In at least one case the guy running the job got the credit card from him and we went to pickup materials for the job. We spent like $4,000. If anyone asked we would never try to say we were the cardholder. And when he got the bill everything was copesthetic. (sp)

I send people with my CC to the store all the time. These are people I know I can trust, and have a path of recourse against. Even if the items are for them, I decide to buy them for them or loan it, I should not be inconvenienced by having to physically go.

Perhaps they are trying to curb that as well.

To explain it, it is simple, big business would like it if small business did not exist. They act as a unit trying to destroy small business. They want every dollar transferred to go through them. That is how to make money for nothing.

But then Citibank calls and says that someone tried to use my Dad's card in Italy. He was obviously not in Italy, he was here for one, and we ain't Italian. Thing is, that particular card had never ever been used in an online transaction. It had gone out over the phone, but that's it.

Actually an online transaction is safer, you give the numbers to a computer, up till then those numbers had been used for phone orders, that's all.

This whole thing is stoooopid. I could buy a house on this card and I'd bet a hundred bucks that at no point would anyone ask for ID. This is ridiculous.

They want to protect me. How about yall ask me first eh ?

T
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Picture ID - 12/28/2006 8:47:37 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Since I work in retail, I understand the stores motivation for requiring an ID.  If we have a fraudulent charge made and argued successfully, we are the ones that are SOL on the money. Same thing with taking in a fake bill, or a bad check. They arent only protecting you, they are protecting themselves. 
I know in the store I work in, the way we get around that is that we never handle the card.  You swipe your own card, and we dont need to check and ID.  The only time we need it is if we are the ones swiping the card behind the register.  That works for me, less for me to worry about when theres a long line of customers waiting.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 12:32:09 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I do not live in Russia or anything, so I do not carry a picture ID. While this is a bit political, it is something different.

I refuse to carry a picture IC or a DL. I should not need papers to travel, the is in the Constitution. Perhaps it is a bit of a personal thing, but that is not the point either.

Last year I spent over $2,000 online. Overall I have spent alot more. Alot. One item was a $1,000 computer, a dandy, 19" LCD with mercury vapor light. High P4 with a 250 gig, and a gig of RAM, ATSC TV tuner card (hi-def) and alot of goodies like a router and a quite good PC to TV convertor.

I have bought many toys online too, and many other PC parts. I have bought things that are dangerous, and even clips for an AK47.

But if I go to Officemax and want a $12 ink cartridge I need ID.

If I go to Kmart for a can of nuts I need ID.

If I go into a gas station to get cigs and $10 worth of gas I need ID, but I can slide the card into the pump and pump them dry if I got a place to put the gasoline.

I have looked into buying actual ammo (7.62X39) for the AK as well. I am not sure if USPS or UPS will handle it, or if there are new regs on it, but an ID would certainly not be the problem.

Thinking backwards, what is the motive for this ?

I think they are trying to reduce black market contractors, that is ones who don't pull peermits etc. Alot of these people can save you alot of money, and do work equivalent or better than licensed contractors. I know, I am one. In at least one case the guy running the job got the credit card from him and we went to pickup materials for the job. We spent like $4,000. If anyone asked we would never try to say we were the cardholder. And when he got the bill everything was copesthetic. (sp)

I send people with my CC to the store all the time. These are people I know I can trust, and have a path of recourse against. Even if the items are for them, I decide to buy them for them or loan it, I should not be inconvenienced by having to physically go.

Perhaps they are trying to curb that as well.

To explain it, it is simple, big business would like it if small business did not exist. They act as a unit trying to destroy small business. They want every dollar transferred to go through them. That is how to make money for nothing.

But then Citibank calls and says that someone tried to use my Dad's card in Italy. He was obviously not in Italy, he was here for one, and we ain't Italian. Thing is, that particular card had never ever been used in an online transaction. It had gone out over the phone, but that's it.

Actually an online transaction is safer, you give the numbers to a computer, up till then those numbers had been used for phone orders, that's all.

This whole thing is stoooopid. I could buy a house on this card and I'd bet a hundred bucks that at no point would anyone ask for ID. This is ridiculous.

They want to protect me. How about yall ask me first eh ?

T


I'm pretty sure it entirely has to do with the rates the credit card processors charge. Online credit card transactions are the most expensive, because the rate of fraud is the highest. Then the swipe but not check id ones, Then the swipe with ID check are the least expensive rate wise.

A .3 % difference rate in charges is a large amount if you are a K-mart, and churn some serious product through. There is about a 1 percent differnce in charges between online and offline credit card processing. The online merchant has undoubtedly figured that into the sale price though and sense rarely does one pay tax on online purchases it still works out cheaper alot of the times.



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 12:46:41 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I do not live in Russia or anything, so I do not carry a picture ID.
Over here in the Uk they are thinking of or maybe they are - not sure which in the process of making everyone carry photo id with fingerprints on and everything. Im sure USA wont be far behind in that. There may come a time when you have no choice but to carry photo id.
 
I refuse to carry a picture IC or a DL. I should not need papers to travel
Are you actually saying you believe you should be able to go anywhere without passport or visa? Would you refuse to carry a picture ic if it was law? Surely having to produce your driving licence within a few days at your local police station or wherever you guys do it is more hassle that just carrying it with you?
 
But if I go to Officemax and want a $12 ink cartridge I need ID.
If I go to Kmart for a can of nuts I need ID.
If I go into a gas station to get cigs and $10 worth of gas I need ID,
Is it really that much trouble to carry id or do you have something to hide?
 
Actually an online transaction is safer, you give the numbers to a computer, up till then those numbers had been used for phone orders, that's all.
I dont agree an online transaction is safer especially if your card is stolen - anyone could use it online.

This whole thing is stoooopid. I could buy a house on this card and I'd bet a hundred bucks that at no point would anyone ask for ID. This is ridiculous.
Nope its not stupid - it protects everyone when a card is stolen or lost.
 
I can't help but think that everything you have mentioned has a very simple answer. Carry an id card!! Unless you have something to hide or enjoy the inconveniences that not carrying one causes whats the problem?


 



_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 1:08:28 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		Well I can't change back to my maiden name unless I bring 3 forms of ID to the State Police AND get fingerprinted!! *Oh, I have to pay a fee too*.
It is the beginning of the Real ID Act, 'hopefully' all American citizens will be printed by 2015.
I am keeping my married name even though I am divorced lol.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 1:52:07 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Well I can't change back to my maiden name unless I bring 3 forms of ID to the State Police AND get fingerprinted!! *Oh, I have to pay a fee too*.
It is the beginning of the Real ID Act, 'hopefully' all American citizens will be printed by 2015.
I am keeping my married name even though I am divorced lol.


yeh all the easier for the feds to get their next  patsy LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:15:19 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I do not live in Russia or anything, so I do not carry a picture ID.
Over here in the Uk they are thinking of or maybe they are - not sure which in the process of making everyone carry photo id with fingerprints on and everything. Im sure USA wont be far behind in that. There may come a time when you have no choice but to carry photo id.
 
That time is here. Look up the Real ID Act.

 
I refuse to carry a picture IC or a DL. I should not need papers to travel
Are you actually saying you believe you should be able to go anywhere without passport or visa? Would you refuse to carry a picture ic if it was law? Surely having to produce your driving licence within a few days at your local police station or wherever you guys do it is more hassle that just carrying it with you?
 
But if I go to Officemax and want a $12 ink cartridge I need ID.
If I go to Kmart for a can of nuts I need ID.
If I go into a gas station to get cigs and $10 worth of gas I need ID,
Is it really that much trouble to carry id or do you have something to hide?
 
Actually an online transaction is safer, you give the numbers to a computer, up till then those numbers had been used for phone orders, that's all.
I dont agree an online transaction is safer especially if your card is stolen - anyone could use it online.
Many stores will 'swipe' the card for you, eliminating the need to know the PIN and no ID is asked for. It just depends on the POS used.

This whole thing is stoooopid. I could buy a house on this card and I'd bet a hundred bucks that at no point would anyone ask for ID. This is ridiculous.
Nope its not stupid - it protects everyone when a card is stolen or lost.
 
I can't help but think that everything you have mentioned has a very simple answer. Carry an id card!! Unless you have something to hide or enjoy the inconveniences that not carrying one causes whats the problem?


 




I would be very happy to remain unseen but that sort of freedom is gone. It is the price we pay to be secure, it isn't a choice anymore & I totally understand the anger that brings. As Americans we have become used to being able to buck the system and it is hard losing that. It is/was [?] one of the core things that made us the US.
"If I have nothing to hide" why won't I get printed? Well I will not get printed for the very reason that the government does not need my prints for any purpose. I am not hiding.
I am protecting.

omg I'm bit rabid on this heh, sorry. It truly scares the crap out of me tho. Maybe it's a bit of leftover hippie inside me?

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:19:51 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

I would be very happy to remain unseen but that sort of freedom is gone. It is the price we pay to be secure, it isn't a choice anymore & I totally understand the anger that brings. As Americans we have become used to being able to buck the system and it is hard losing that. It is/was [?] one of the core things that made us the US.
"If I have nothing to hide" why won't I get printed? Well I will not get printed for the very reason that the government does not need my prints for any purpose. I am not hiding.
I am protecting.

omg I'm bit rabid on this heh, sorry. It truly scares the crap out of me tho. Maybe it's a bit of leftover hippie inside me?


Never give up any freedom you have for any reason!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/29/2006 2:24:42 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:21:13 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		If I have nothing to hide" why won't I get printed? Well I will not get printed for the very reason that the government does not need my prints for any purpose. I am not hiding.
I am protecting.

As i understand it the id cards with fingerprints etc will be used to verify identity.
This protects us against fraud, noone will be able to use your credit cards etc because noone has the same finger prints.
When the police arrest people for crimes it will help them verify thay are who they say they are instead of giving false id.
Yes maybe it is an invasion of rivacy but i dont see its the big deal people are trying to make it - but thats just my opinion.
As i have said with nothing to hide where is the harm in it?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:22:21 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Do you see the links at the bottom of my posts?  Know your enemy!  Never give up any freedom you have for any reason

when the id cards come in i dont think you'll have any choice.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:25:47 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Do you see the links at the bottom of my posts?  Know your enemy!  Never give up any freedom you have for any reason

when the id cards come in i dont think you'll have any choice.


Actually you do, dont do it, what are they going to do arrest all of america?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:27:56 PM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		My opinion? I think some people are overly paranoid or just..something..whatever the word for it is, I don't know it myself.
Seriously first when surveillance cameras were put up here so many were like OH MY GAWD WHERE'S DA PRIVACY I'm sure they're gonna put those up on toilets too *squeak* I mean come ON when do you think about surveillance cameras? I don't unless I'm planning on stealing something, I'm not saying that I do lol, and picture ID? I mean hello what's the biggy are you so gawd damned ugly that you can't even carry your ID, your own face scares you?
gawd this privacy/freedom bullshit I think many are way to obsessed with those things
in the UK..missturbation? I'm not sure..I think I read it in some newspaper somewhere, that every car that enters London is caught on camera and it registered? I don't remember if they're already doing it or planning to do it? maybe you know something about it?
(the following has only to do with the original post :P )..so yeah I'm sure your face appears everywhere on those cameras too..are you going to run home to mama crying...the bad, bad government took ma pic cuz it wants to protect me boohooo
I'm in a ranting mood today..I'm not sure why..maybe it's the hormones

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:31:46 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Actually you do, dont do it, what are they going to do arrest all of america?

I actually find this a pretty  childish thing to say or do. Yes i guess anyone who does not carry it and is caught not carrying it will be arrested. Is it really worth the hassle?
If you have nothing to hide what exactly is the problem? You say loss of freedom but if you have done nothing wrong i can't see how it will really effect you!!

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:35:07 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		in the UK..missturbation? I'm not sure..I think I read it in some newspaper somewhere, that every car that enters London is caught on camera and it registered? I don't remember if they're already doing it or planning to do it? maybe you know something about it?
Im sorry i dont know anything about this but if they do its no big deal if your plans are just to visit London and leave. The only people i can see complaining are those who plan to do something wrong whilst there or the camp who complain its a breach of their privacy but for heavens sake lol.
Im with you on this the photo id is no big deal.
I tell you who might know about this and may post at some point - northern gent - pretty sure he'll know about the london thing.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to MissyRane)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:36:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Actually you do, dont do it, what are they going to do arrest all of america?

I actually find this a pretty  childish thing to say or do. Yes i guess anyone who does not carry it and is caught not carrying it will be arrested. Is it really worth the hassle?
If you have nothing to hide what exactly is the problem? You say loss of freedom but if you have done nothing wrong i can't see how it will really effect you!!


There are a couple other threads yo may want to look at.  like the failure of capitalism, freedom or fascism and a few others that go into this exact subject.  or just view the 3 videos the 3rd one covers it quite well but you really need to view all 3 to get a good picture as to why i would say something so childish.  Then when you are all done with that, read up on the finer points of how hitler took over the german democracy.   Yes German democracy.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:41:07 PM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		ya..it's like your driving license..it's got a photo of you and really you don't really go anywhere without it do you? I mean I'm married to mine, and the credit/debit cards here all include our picture so you can't really pay anything without giving out your picture ID..unless you pay in cash of course

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:43:51 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane
so yeah I'm sure your face appears everywhere on those cameras too..are you going to run home to mama crying...the bad, bad government took ma pic cuz it wants to protect me boohooo
I'm in a ranting mood today..I'm not sure why..maybe it's the hormones


Did she say PROTECT YOU????

Democratic Sponsered Terror:
A) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0Kt6o-g4g
B) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO0FOWe-GQo



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MissyRane)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:43:51 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I don't need to look at the videos you linked to know that the photo id card is going to come into play whether any of us like it or not. The pros and cons are actually pretty irrelevant but what is relevant is whether we choose to stand up for our so called freedom and not carry one or go along with what will become law and carry one. Only if everyone agreed to not carry one could it make a big difference, otherwise it is going to be a minimal few who dont and possibly end up getting arrested, charged and maybe even end up with a criminal record just for the sake of not carrying something which has info about you on.
 
Edited to add - i cant even hear what the people are saying on those you tube things which are about as reliable a source of info as a chocolate fire guard is good for keeping kids away from a fire!!
Could you possibly type here why you disagree with id cards so much?
Oh and we already gathered you think it infringes on your privacy.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 12/29/2006 2:50:27 PM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:46:00 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I don't need to look at the videos you linked to know that the photo id card is going to come into play whether any of us like it or not.


yeh thats right, i forgot we live in a democratic society! 


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Picture ID - 12/29/2006 2:46:22 PM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane
so yeah I'm sure your face appears everywhere on those cameras too..are you going to run home to mama crying...the bad, bad government took ma pic cuz it wants to protect me boohooo
I'm in a ranting mood today..I'm not sure why..maybe it's the hormones


Did she say PROTECT YOU????

Democratic Sponsered Terror:
A) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0Kt6o-g4g
B) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO0FOWe-GQo




sorry real, I mean..they only want to get your pic so they can sneak into your house at night n do some texas chainsaw practicizes on you

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 20
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