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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 8:18:30 AM

aliljaded1

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline

first off let me applaude you on your rant. i think youre 100% correct (imho). ive found the same thing . i think you and i are more sensitive to it because of the way we were brought up as children w/ not much. so what we have we hold dear. i have been hypersensitive to the way people live , present themselves , their children ect. some people just dont get it. they never will. ive been around all diff types of people and have found more then less that the people that had nothing try harder. ive taught my children respect for themselves and others , ive taught them compassion , which i find more valuable then anything i could ever buy them.

quote:

"Not to toot my own horn, but quite frequently I have had newer submissives come to me and say they are jealous of how easily this comes to me, how for me it seems to be so natural. EASY? Not on your life! I have worked my tail off at this to get to where I am today. Is that just a sign of the times? Do people today want everything to be simple, not worth working for? If submissive came in pill form would it be more popular than

Viagra? "

indeed it would . be proud of yourself you deserve it .the only advice i can give you is
stay true to what you believe. and try to pass along the knowledge. because god darn-it they need it !!!

and to those that dont need the lesson, try to remember it.
just my 2cents, jade

< Message edited by aliljaded1 -- 2/25/2005 8:24:00 AM >

_____________________________

**The mind is its own place,and in itself can make a heaven of hell, and a hell of heaven**

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 21

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 8:21:42 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

Hi Emerald,

quote:

I just want to point out- I AM a kinky whore, I love to play, I love to fuck, I play and fuck at pretty much will, sometimes with someone I've just met a few hours prior. I enjoy the hell out of it and find a lot of fun in it. That IS a chunk of what bdsm is to me.

But, I also have lifelong commitments as property to the Owner.

They can exist simultaneously

No argument at all from me as long as you, as an owned slut, accepts that your owner will decide who you will and will not fuck, whether that be on a case-by-case basis, or a more general set of "ground rules" that your owner alone specifies.

Consistant with the vein of this thread, though, a man or woman shouldn't take a slut, and/or teach their slave to be a slut, if they don't in fact want to own a slut. Again, it comes down to consistancy, and responsibility. Nothing that you have said contradicts that.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 22

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 8:38:09 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Or has it just come to be about the kink?

When did Master/slave relationships get unkinky? Did I miss that meeting?

Guys, unless you are living an Ozzy and Harriet lifestyle and just calling it M/s, we are all here 'cause we are all a bit kinky.

This is the second thread where those who practice "love based' BDSM come down on those who don't by deriding what they do as just "kink". "Hello Pot, this is Kettle...you're black."

I just don't get it.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 23

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 8:49:17 AM

aliljaded1

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline

i agree w/ you on one thing.

it is just about the kink for some.
i just dont happen to be one of them.
smiles as usual , jade

< Message edited by aliljaded1 -- 2/25/2005 8:50:00 AM >

_____________________________

**The mind is its own place,and in itself can make a heaven of hell, and a hell of heaven**

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 24

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 8:51:01 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Access Denied

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 10:07:28 PM >

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 25

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 8:54:33 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

we are all here 'cause we are all a bit kinky

I don't tend to disagree with your statement, although I do know people who live a D/s lifestyle and they will tell you that their sex lives are of the "vanilla" variety, with all other aspects of their relationship being that of power exchange. I think, however, you missed my point. I was not proclaiming to not be kinky or that kink has not been a major factor in my life. I was asking if it has become JUST about the kink. If you are in a kink based relationship, from MY standpoint it does not comes close to how I perceive a M/s or D/s relationship to be.

I don't want to get into a war about definitions Personally what others choose to define themselves as has no real bearing on how I will choose to live my life. It has been said that anyone can use whatever terms they like be it lifestyle, D/s, M/s and apply whatever meaning suits them. Well, if this is true and we don't have any "general" concensus on what those terms mean....why bother with terminology at all. If that were the case, I could say that I am a doctor, but stating it doesn't make it so nor does if fit into the view of what the masses would generally consider a doctor to be.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 26

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:01:30 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

More like neglecting their responsibilities. Neglecting the whole picture.

Exactly! There seems to be a trend toward irresponsibility today. The world of alternative lifestyles is not all inclusive of this. We see Masters and Dominants who don't want to put forth the effort, we see fathers who neglect their responsibilities to be a parent, we see mothers doing the same, we see employees who don't really want to work but they do want a paycheck. And the big wheel of life keeps turning....and it seems no one is noticing or stepping up to say "Hey, Wait just a minute!". It seems to be becoming all about "what makes me happy" with total disregard of the bigger picture. No man is an island.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 27

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:16:07 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

erin,
Wanted to respond to this earlier, but have been very busy since yesterday...

I describe the situation that you describe as people focusing on the sensation versus the sensational. There is a lot to be said for the sensation and sensation is a VERY BIG factor to my and beth's life, but I can't separate my desire for being proud of my slave from being proud of the rest of my possessions. It's not an easy task to please

I DETEST a mess! beth is well aware of that and does her best to be sure I never see one. It's not easy, and I've offered to bring in someone for do the work, but much to my pride, beth refuses and is genuinely upset with herself if our home's appearance is not up to standard. I don't do a white glove inspection, but one time when the TV wasn't dusted I did point it out by writing a message "clean this slave!" in the dust.

I enjoy entertaining quite a bit. I am also very much a spur of the moment person when it comes to doing things. If I decide to call some friends over, I don't want beth to have to hide piles of accumulated crap, or put all the unwashed dishes in the dishwasher. (What is it with that btw - WHY the hell if you're putting a dish in the sink can't you instead just put it in the dishwasher?????) The standing order is, 'assume we're having company EVERY night' and have the house looking to expect them.

I believe that a Master's discipline should not be focused only on his relationship with his slave. He has responsibility for self discipline as well, in his appearance, and in the manner he lives. Only after achieving self discipline can he project that discipline onto his slave and his household. Consistency is much easier to maintain versus rationalizing exceptions.

An unpopular opinion of why this situation exists so often is that some Masters are just lazy. It's a LOT more fun to dominate in the bedroom or the playroom. It's not erotic to apply household discipline. It's much easier to allow a mess then it is to address the problem. And then there is also this thought. Maybe, just maybe, the 'slave' is just a sensation slut. Maybe the 'master' know this, and takes advantage of it for sexual and/or physical play. Maybe he is just not strong enough to dominate an individual to the extent of this type of submission. Maybe, he know deep down in his heart that if he tried that type of domination his 'slave' would say; "FUCK you, sir!" and that would be the end of his "mastery". Who knows.....Maybe??

Of course the standard disclaimer applies. This is my opinion of how I live my live with my slave.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 28

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:21:48 AM

justfunco

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/23/2005
Status: offline

I'm totally new with the BDSM scene so my opinion may not mean much to many of you, but I've been reading/studying sexuality for awhile. Basically I feel bottom line is any sexual topic will have a different meaning to the people involved in the activities. If BDSM is only about the kink for a couple, then so be it. So far I've spoke to both people that want the lifestyle to consume their lives 24/7, and people who only want it in the bedroom during sexplay. I tend to only want it in the bedroom... So kink is very much a primary interest for me and I really don't see any need for BDSM to have anything to do with my every day life.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 29

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:36:15 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aliljaded1
it is just about the kink for some.
i just dont happen to be one of them.

So what aspects of BDSM do you enjoy that aren't kinky? If they aren't kinky, are they BDSM?

Just curious...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to aliljaded1)

Post #: 30

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:37:01 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Exactly! There seems to be a trend toward irresponsibility today.

You edged on this in your first rant but didn't get too deeply into it so I didn't bring it up.

However, this is yet another version of "back in my day..." and "these young whippersnappers..."

It's nothing new. EVERY generation says this about EVERY generation after it.

The reality is that this is very unlikely to be a "world change" and much more likely to be a "Your perspective change" issue. You're growing up, you're taking new things into account and seeing more and what you are sensitive about is pushing to you.

All we can really do is be the best example in our own lives to others as we can- not losing our manners when others lose theirs is a powerful message.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 31

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:37:36 AM

songbird26

Posts: 72
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

The Dominant men in my life have taught me the importance of eloquence, of being a lady. It’s not always been about the finer art of blow jobs or how much one can take while bound to a cross. It has been charm school…..Dominant style. I have been taught to keep a proper home, how to entertain guests, what should or should not come out of my mouth in a public setting. I have been taught to look my best, to not be ashamed of my sexiness, but to embrace it with a degree of modesty also. I have been taught that it is ok to state my opinions, but that it is not ok to be argumentative for the sake of argument. I have been taught to be respectful.

I was also taught personal responsibility and accountability.

Shockingly, many of us have learned these things without ever having the benefit of a dominant, master, or any other fulltime BDSM relationship, simply because it's common sense and good human behavior to know all of these things. Frankly, I truly admire your past dominants, who took on such a challenging task as someone who *didn't* know these fundamentals of polite human behavior.

I don't disagree with your rant: it's your personal opinion and you are as justified in it as I am in mine (with the caveat that it was Plato, I think, who labeled opinion as the "lowest form of human knowledge"). And I think that it IS important to have a learning relationship as part of any dominant/submissive relationship: there's a mentorship and a guidance and a responsibility that comes from the dominant that, to me, is one of the most cherished and treasured aspects of BDSM (especially since I'm far more d/s oriented than s/m or b/d). But I believe that it should be tightly focused on molding the submissive to the dominant's needs and desires and ideals, and that expecting a dominant to take responsibility for something as fundamental as keeping mildew out of the dish-sink or saying 'please' and 'thank you' is a rotten cop-out. Not to mention an abdication of personal responsibility on the part of the submissive that makes me cringe down to my very bones.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 32

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:39:43 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

So what aspects of BDSM do you enjoy that aren't kinky? If they aren't kinky, are they BDSM?

Just curious...

Taggard

Well theres a LOT of kinky stuff thats not "BDSM" like cross-dressing, humiliation, obejctification, animal play, exhibitionism, foot worship, etc.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 33

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:40:12 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i think what she is trying to say is that there is MORE to M/s D/s then just kink.

And I think that is what I am confused about. What, exactly, are you talking about that is M/s or D/s and at the same time is not kinky.

quote:

A Master can teach his slave how to be well trained, well behaved, with poise, good manners, ect with out love.

And that's not kinky??? It sound's pretty kinky to me...

quote:

She's just ranting because it seems they arent teaching their slaves to be anything other then sluts.

So she isn't complaining about kink...she is complaining about sex. So the topic really should be, "Is it all just about the sex today?"...or am I still missing the point?

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:45:05 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Well theres a LOT of kinky stuff thats not "BDSM" like cross-dressing, humiliation, obejctification, animal play, exhibitionism, foot worship, etc.

Not that I am agreeing one way or t'other on the BDSM qualities of the activites you mention, but that wasn't the question I asked. The question was, "What is BDSM that is not kinky?"

In other words, I asked "What cats are not animals?" and you answered, "There are lots of animals that are not cats like dogs, fish, rats, etc."

Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 2/25/2005 9:49:04 AM >

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 35

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:51:21 AM

justfunco

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/23/2005
Status: offline

Also I want to add to my comment, having a messy house or dirty (as in messy/nasty) lifestyle I doubt has crap to do with BDSM or sexuality at all. Maybe it does to others but I don't think so.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 36

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:51:36 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
In other words, I asked "What cats are not animals?" and you answered, "There are lots of animals that are not cats like dogs, fish, rats, etc."

Taggard

Ah sorry I thought you had asked two questions "What in bdsm isnt kinky?" and "What is kinky that's not bdsm?"

While "discipline" (what I call the forgotten D in BDSM) certainly SHOULD be existent in every persons life, kinky or not, I think the extreme sort that we tend to practice in transferring authority could still be counted as kinky.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 37

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:52:53 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

But I believe that it should be tightly focused on molding the submissive to the dominant's needs and desires and ideals, and that expecting a dominant to take responsibility for something as fundamental as keeping mildew out of the dish-sink or saying 'please' and 'thank you' is a rotten cop-out. Not to mention an abdication of personal responsibility on the part of the submissive that makes me cringe down to my very bones.

I completely agree. I guess that I didn't think it was necessary to point out that I was not neanderthalic in the areas of manners, behavior or cleanliness when I encountered my first Dominant. Those things were instilled in me by my parents (AKA Ward and June Cleaver). The Dominant men in my life simply took the skills I had and amplified them to a higher level. I was molded to fit their needs, desires and standards. Thankfully I had the good sense to choose men who held higher standards and understood the value of going the extra mile.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to songbird26)

Post #: 38

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:57:06 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
Ah sorry I thought you had asked two questions "What in bdsm isnt kinky?" and "What is kinky that's not bdsm?"

No problem...I really asked the same question twice. The first time I phrased it, "What cats are not animals?" The second time I phrased it, "If it is not a cat, can it be an animal?"

Really the same question...in set notation, I am theorizing that BDSM is just a subset of kink, and looking for an exception (something that is BDSM but not kink) to disprove my theory.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 39

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 9:58:09 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

Hello Taggard,

quote:

Guys, unless you are living an Ozzy and Harriet lifestyle and just calling it M/s, we are all here 'cause we are all a bit kinky.

Oh yeah! Ozzy and Harriet with a Whip. If forgot you have that image running around in your mind. The trouble with a word like "kinky" Taggard is that it's relative. If I'm kinky, what is the norm that represents "straight"? What if I see what you consider to be the norm that you are "kinky" when measured against, "kinky"?

Here's the deal. If you see yourself as "kinky" (not normal) or what you do as "kinky" (not normal) and you enjoy it because it's kinky (not normal) its the very kinkiness of it from which you are deriving pleasure at least partly. In other words, you like it 'cause you're gettin' away with something naughty. There isn't a fourteen year old alive who isn't kinky, cause for them, just damn near everything they want to do is naughty. By the time most folks are 30 or so, they aren't so kinky anymore. They've done most of the stuff that they want to do, and don't consider it naughty anymore. If they're someone like me, their "norm" includes relationships where a big power differential exists. While they may find relations like that fulfilling and enjoyable, they've lost their "kink". Some folks never lose the "kink" It's always attractive cause it's naughty, or even dangerous. These folks are usually pretty easy to spot in the scene. They keep moving the goal posts for themselves so that they are always on the edge of that "cherry high". Spanking turns to flogging turns to caning turns to needle play turns to fire play etc. etc. You get the idea.

The way that I live would send Ozzy and Harriet screaming into the night, and get the show canceled. That doesn't make it kinky. Just makes it me.

quote:

This is the second thread where those who practice "love based' BDSM come down on those who don't by deriding what they do as just "kink". "Hello Pot, this is Kettle...you're black."

Yeahhhhhhh...Taggard...I know that "L" word is tough to say, but it's a natural consequence of the deep trust and commitment without which the kind of relations that we are discussing on this thread don't work. If you're not keeping things at a pretty shallow and superficial level, it's gonna show up. Humans are messy sometimes, my friend.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/25/2005 10:06:14 AM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 40

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