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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:24:25 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

What on earth does any of this have to do with this thread?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 61

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:28:39 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Sure, that is one way it works. Yet, perhaps when someone knows how to manage a slave in a way that you don't know or understand (if you could even admit that could be possible, which I doubt), just perhaps, it might also work without love happening, yet still be meaningful, deep and satisfying for all concerned.

I am not asking you to think that I have that way figured out. I would simply love to see you confess to being human and admitting that it is possible that people can live in a way you have never experienced and don't really understand.

Done! There may be a woman out there who can keep love and submission separate in an ongoing M/s relationship. Who, though utterly submitted to her master, has no emotion toward him that she would label "love". I've just never seen one yet, and I have been around a while. My experience has been that the two go together. When one deepens, so does the other. I can understand why a young man would want such a woman. I wish you luck in your search.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 62

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:36:29 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Well isn't that exactly where submission comes into play? Just because one is obedient and complies does not discount the emotion.

Yes but your statement was that emotions DRIVE us. My emotions do NOT drive me.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 63

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:37:58 AM

quietkitten

Posts: 1082
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

What on earth does any of this have to do with this thread?

Lol!! I assume this is directed at my post. All I am saying is that it is very easy to get offended by what someone writes when they really don't mean it the way you are taking it. Sometimes I type something that seems perfectly logical in my head, and then when I see it later I think... "Oh Fuck, that came out all wrong" Everyone here has their own way of looking at the many aspects of this life, and they don't always match up. It's ok to disagree and even have a good arguement, but remembering that it isn't necessarily a personal attack is important too.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 64

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:37:59 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

there used to be a different way and that way is dying off I am afraid.

erin,

Don't think this is the case, at least not universally as you could see from my post on this subject. I think the issue with this and many similarly posted threads is the resentment of the "one 'true' way". I don't think there ever was one or will ever be one. And really there no reason for there to be 'one'.

I've gotten so old, I now KNOW that I don't KNOW. I've become more of an observer. Whenever we go to any lifestyle function or when we go over to some else's house we don't go with preconceived ideas of what the party will be or how the house will look. We go their to enjoy, knowing at worse, we are together with people who fundamentally have the same interests as we do. Our stay and participation depends on how comfortable we are.

Now, on the ride home we may discuss how the party went, what the dynamic was between people, etc; but I don't think we've ever been judgmental. Often we'll just discuss what we enjoyed or what we'd like to emulate from what we encountered.

As in your case, our lifestyle and basic dynamic won't change, but maybe we saw some technique or toy that we really enjoyed, or maybe the hosts did something that we thought was 'cool' and want to use at our next house party. For instance, I saw an idea for a 'lifestyle' Texas Hold'em party on this site, and we plan on having one at our house soon.

Ranting is healthy, and debating rants stimulates and helps you to be confident in your position. Be comfortable in what you are and what you do. Unless coming from a person's Master or Dom criticism given to people in this lifestyle about how they live will be resented. Rightfully so - because it's their life - they're happy. What right do you have to say just because there are dishes in the sink, they are not a good example of a M/s couple? We are ALL examples. Some examples are used to follow, others to avoid, and some you just discount and ignore. But you can't force anyone to decide which to do which.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 65

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:39:30 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

What on earth does any of this have to do with this thread?

Nothing...and for that you have my apologies.

What you are seeing is a rather common message board occurance...dueling.

Leonidas and I like to have at it...it is really quite fun for me, though I worry sometime that I really have offended him. I would certainly buy him a drink if he ever found his way to Rochester or NYC.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 66

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:42:34 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
For instance, I saw an idea for a 'lifestyle' Texas Hold'em party on this site, and we plan on having one at our house soon.

Hot damn...does this mean what I think it means??? *laughing* And do I get an invite?

Going "all in" takes on a whole new meaning.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 67

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:44:29 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

the reason why people are irresponsible and/or neglect aspects of their lives is not because they put too much emphasis on kink. It is for a myriad of other reasons that don’t even come close to whether or not they put kink first. That just seems to be a pattern that you notice, perhaps some sort of correlation, but definitely not cause/effect.

Lady Angelika,
You are right. I don't think that it is the cause/effect. I believe it is a sign of the times and all aspects of our lives today are contributing factors. <...> What I do know is that there used to be a different way and that way is dying off I am afraid. There were certainly some good things to be said for it.

I don't think it's a sign of the times, erin. I'm not a historian (and if there are any in the audience feel free to jump in please!) but I think that life has always been tough. Today we have a different kind of stress, granted, but I think the stress of surviving has always been present for humans. It is also my belief that there have been irresponsible and neglectful people throughout history.

I think what you hold onto is sentiment for a time when things were simpler. I am under the impression that today is not more or less complicated, it is simply more complex. Moral panic wants us to believe that our society is spiralling into chaos but the reality is that life has always been a balancing act. Societies have risen and fallen and redefined themselves. We are in a constant state of flux.

The fact that you are sentimental is not a bad thing, but it is opinion based on emotion. You stated yourself that you based a lot of opinion on emotion. I’m not judging you for it, I simply want to point it out to you. For the record, I try as best I cannot to form opinion based on emotion, but rather on facts, rational thought mixed together with a strong dose of instinct. I find it has made my life more enjoyable.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 68

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:47:01 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I would certainly buy him a drink if he ever found his way to Rochester or NYC.

Yeah, you'd be welcome in my city too, Taggard. Funny thing is, I am in Rochester. Been here for about a month. Doing some consulting for a major company in town (shouldn't be too hard to guess which company that might be). I'll be here another three weeks.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 69

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:48:11 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Lol!! I assume this is directed at my post.

No...LOL. It was directed at the ongoing duel between Leonidas and TallDarkandWitty. I kept rereading their posts and going...am I missing it?...how does this all relate?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to quietkitten)

Post #: 70

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:50:07 AM

quietkitten

Posts: 1082
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

see what I mean?? I think something sounds ok ... and whoops don't I screw it up?!?!?

I think I need some sleep!!!!

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 71

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:50:47 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
Funny thing is, I am in Rochester.

No fucking way!!! What are you doing for diner?

Sorry...I am going to send a private emaul...just had to register my utter shock in a public way!!! (And let others know that if I dissapear, they should look for me buried in Leonidas' back yard.)

Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 2/25/2005 11:51:18 AM >

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 72

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:51:12 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

And do I get an invite?

You're invited! April 2nd or 9th are the target days. Was trying for March, but too many conflicts and then the holiday got in the way. I'll let you know when confirmed.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 73

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:53:15 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

And do I get an invite?

You're invited! April 2nd or 9th are the target days.

Don't kid...I'm likely to show up. You're in Florida, right? That sounds like a nice break from the Rochester early Spring (read that late Winter) weather.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 74

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:56:24 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Ranting is healthy, and debating rants stimulates and helps you to be confident in your position. Be comfortable in what you are and what you do.

Merc you are always the voice of reason. Please understand I am certainly not attempting to make anyone decide what example to follow. I am merely presenting an example that I believe is different from the one I am more commonly seeing today. Just my views...not a personal attack to everyone on here who might have a few dishes in the sink. It's not about a few dishes....it's when those few dishes are added together with a gazillion other things that paint a broader picture that says to the observer...there is nothing here that is under anyone's control.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 75

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 11:57:54 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

Sure, that is one way it works. Yet, perhaps when someone knows how to manage a slave in a way that you don't know or understand (if you could even admit that could be possible, which I doubt), just perhaps, it might also work without love happening, yet still be meaningful, deep and satisfying for all concerned.

I am not asking you to think that I have that way figured out. I would simply love to see you confess to being human and admitting that it is possible that people can live in a way you have never experienced and don't really understand.

Done! There may be a woman out there who can keep love and submission separate in an ongoing M/s relationship. Who, though utterly submitted to her master, has no emotion toward him that she would label "love". I've just never seen one yet, and I have been around a while. My experience has been that the two go together. When one deepens, so does the other. I can understand why a young man would want such a woman. I wish you luck in your search.

Ok. I know that this is another off topic contribution. But I cannot help myself... the thought of getting between two duelling men... <swoons>. That and, this is what happens when my office shuts down for a day ;) Idle hands are the devil's workshop!!

I think this has something to do with how we define love. Permit me to take this out of a kink dynamic...

I have had a strong professional mentor in my life. He hired me the day after graduation and taught me the foundation of everything I need to know about the field that I am in. That was 5 years ago and today, though I do not need his guidance as much as I once did (in fact, he consults my opinion now), he and I are closer then ever. I look back and I know that I would not be where I am today if it weren't for him.

Do I love him? Not in the romantic sense, no. What I do have is a lot of respect for him, a great deal of admiration and to a point, I feel quite a bit of reconnaissance. Is that some form of love? Like the kind of love I can have for good friends, sure :) I spent time with him last weekend and after a few bottles of wine, I gave him a big hug and told him I loved him. He knew exactly what I meant. It wasn’t the “I love you” kind of love but the “thanks for being there for me” kind of love.

I think what Leonidas was trying to point out is that it is hard for some people to separate these feelings. I have had people “fall in love” with me because I was nice to them. It wasn’t a genuine love but rather a love out of neediness mixed with the fact that finally someone was giving them attention.

I think what Taggard is trying to say is that some of us have overcome this and can make clear distinctions.

Then again, I might have it all wrong. Confusing, huh?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 76

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 12:06:23 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Don't kid...I'm likely to show up. You're in Florida, right?

Taggard,

Not kidding, but we're in Redondo Beach, CA. STILL much better then Rochester regardless of the season. But you have a standing invitation for hospitality even if you can't make the 'hold-em' party. We're very sincere.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 77

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 12:39:28 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

Hi Angelica,

I was speaking specifically about women kept as slaves, and how the depth of their submission (in a commited, collared kind of relation) is, in my experience unbreakably linked with love. They rise and fall together, in my experience. The relationship that you are describing was one where you were certainly junior to the man, but you probably wouldn't say that you were submitted to him in any meaningful way. I was only speaking of my experience of women who chose to submit themselves as slaves. I don't think it would be fair to describe them all as needy, emotionally broken women, and if they were when they started, they got over it for the most part.

I, as a dominant man, don't feel the same emotions that a female slave feels. I can find them beautiful, and complimentary to me, but It's not something that I feel directly. I'm wondering if, maybe, as a woman who identifies as dominant, those emotions are similarly foreign to you, given that you have never been submitted to a man in the way that I'm describing.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/25/2005 12:41:10 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 78

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 12:57:20 PM

Alexander

Posts: 159
Joined: 12/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
Funny thing is, I am in Rochester.

No fucking way!!! What are you doing for diner?

Sorry...I am going to send a private emaul...just had to register my utter shock in a public way!!! (And let others know that if I dissapear, they should look for me buried in Leonidas' back yard.)

Taggard

Doh. Give me 4 days notice Ill meet you both there.

Alex.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 79

RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 1:04:59 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alexander
Doh. Give me 4 days notice Ill meet you both there.

It looks like we are meeting next Wednesday, so you have 5 days notice. Hurry up!

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Alexander)

Post #: 80

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