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Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:16:30 AM

Nosathro

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Let me start off with saying I have no problem with "Madam President". If you have not heard by now, Hilary Clinton has announced her bid for the 2008 Presidentency. Also let me say I am not in favor of the current President either. However, I do feel we are not getting anything out of Hilary either. The Clinton both have a long history of dirty politics. They are both habitual liars. They bypass election laws to get foreign money to run their campains. Hilary Clinton currently represents New York, a state she has never lived in.

Hilary Clinton style of leadership is very questionable. During the Carter Adminstration she was appointed to a Committee to look into ways of dealing with drug abuse, one of her recommendations was for the New York Transit Authority to hire heroin additics.

If you have forgotten when she was First Lady, she fired many White House Staff members to replace them with "friends". Many say Hilary is only your "friend" when she politically benetfits, after that she ignores you. Then there was her campain for National Health Care. After a well publizied tour of the US asking people questions on their needs for health care, she gathered a bunch of lawyers and meet in secret to formulate a plan for National Health Care. These lawyers only serve to "rubber stamp" what she wanted, which many say is her style.

Her current plan for national health care is modeled after the Canadian system. This is the one that is so bureaucratic it takes a year or more to get the approval for anyone to see a Doctor. When one man out of his own expense saw a doctor this burea attempted to file criminal charges against him. The Canadian Supreme Court however did rule that the man could see a doctor at his own expense. It is said Hilary's National Health Care Plan is even more bureaucratic and will consume 11% of the Gross National Product leading to bankruptucy.
This is only a few things that are in store if she gets elected.

Nosathro

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RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:22:05 AM

dcnovice

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As a diehard Democrat, I'd been hoping Hillary would not run. I think she carries too much baggage and is too polarizing to be elected, and I'd hate to see us (the Dems) squander what may be a good opportunity in 2008.

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 2

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:27:37 AM

Level

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And another tosses their hat into the ring:

Sen. Brownback joins presidential field

By JOHN HANNA, Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago

Sen. Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record), R-Kan., began a long-shot bid for president on Saturday, hoping his reputation as a favorite son of the religious right can help him outdistance better known rivals.

"My family and I are taking the first steps on the yellow brick road to the White House," Brownback said, returning to his home state to declare his intention to seek his party's nomination in 2008.

The two-term senator said he will fight to renew the nation's cultural values and pledged to focus on rebuilding families.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070120/ap_on_el_pr/brownback2008

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(in reply to dcnovice)

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RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:34:46 AM

juliaoceania

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I do not like Hilary, I will not vote for her. The reason is not because of those listed in the OP, but because she changed her position on Israel and Palestine because of the Jewish population in New York. Anyone that chooses their moral convictions based on their constituency can go f*** themselves...

I hope one day soon we will get a female president. I am tired of the all male white guy's club... so perhaps Obama will hold my interest.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Nosathro)

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RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:37:59 AM

seeksfemslave

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I know its a bit of a novelty for a representative to champion the views of his/her constituents. Boom Boom !

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:47:14 AM

ShiftedJewel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I know its a bit of a novelty for a representative to champion the views of his/her constituents. Boom Boom !

Yeah, no kidding... you would think they work for the people or something... geeeeze.

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RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:56:28 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I know its a bit of a novelty for a representative to champion the views of his/her constituents. Boom Boom !

If they are consistent with those views through out their entire careers or at least a large portion of them, I say "Yeah, they represent their public". If they suddenly change their statements because a portion of their consituency threatened to withdraw support, I call that being without intrinsic value. I would feel the same about it if someone suddenly changed their position on abortion one way or another to get elected... either a person stands for something or they stand for nothing.... just my view.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 7

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:57:11 AM

Lorelei115

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I get the feeling.. somewhere deep in my gut... that Hillary just wants to be president for its own sake. I don't know that she actually wants to help anyone or make a difference. She just wants to be the first female president... And I think she's had her eye on that for a loooong time. *shrug* Like I said, just a gut feeling I've always gotten from her.

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But by the realization
Of who we are.

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RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 10:58:25 AM

MysticFireTopaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
As a diehard Democrat, I'd been hoping Hillary would not run. I think she carries too much baggage and is too polarizing to be elected, and I'd hate to see us (the Dems) squander what may be a good opportunity in 2008.

My sentiments exactly. While not a diehard Democrat, that's what I am registered as and I do agree Senator Clinton is too polarizing to be elected. I was hoping the Democrats could have a unifying candidate in 2008 that people could really get behind. I don't know who that would be, but I know that it is not Senator Clinton.

Also, as a high-tech worker who has seen 90% of her colleagues replaced by H1B workers, I am not impressed with Senator Clinton's voting record on that issue, either. There was no "shortage" being filled--qualified American workers were displaced from their jobs for cheaper (and far less qualified, I might add) foreign replacements. And to add insult to injury, they were personally forced to train their replacements, or else forfeit their severance. That's a voting issue for me, and Ms. Clinton doesn't pass muster.

I am all in favor of a female president, but not HER.

Lady Topaz

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 9

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 12:14:17 PM

Real0ne

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Billary?

There is another nail in the coffin of democracy!

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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 10

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 12:19:55 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I know its a bit of a novelty for a representative to champion the views of his/her constituents. Boom Boom !

I'm certainly no fan of Hilary, but I can't argue with your point here.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 11

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 12:23:49 PM

gooddogbenji

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Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Her current plan for national health care is modeled after the Canadian system. This is the one that is so bureaucratic it takes a year or more to get the approval for anyone to see a Doctor. When one man out of his own expense saw a doctor this burea attempted to file criminal charges against him. The Canadian Supreme Court however did rule that the man could see a doctor at his own expense. It is said Hilary's National Health Care Plan is even more bureaucratic and will consume 11% of the Gross National Product leading to bankruptucy.

Ummmmmmm.... What?

Okay, Canada aint exactly efficient, but did you read what you wrote? No, seriously, did you read it? Or did you copy and paste random words from The Great Gatsby?

It takes a year to get approval to see a doctor? Anyone? Any doctor? Wow. I must have crossed the border last year when I got a same day appointment with a doctor I was not even registered with yet.

Granted, we have a shortage of doctors, but that's not bureaucracy, that's a shortage of doctors.

Don't you love it when a major point in someone's argument can be easily dismissed? It makes forgetting the whole thing just that much easier.

Yours,

benji

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(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 12

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 2:20:31 PM

WyrdRich

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I don't like or trust Hillary. I plan to have a great deal of fun at her expense as this campaign runs its course. Neither of those things would keep me from voting for her if my other option was worse.

I'm already enjoying the quick-steps she is taking with Iraq. Her official statement on the website talks about ending the war in the right way.... How's that for saying absolutely nothing?

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 13

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 3:01:44 PM

juliaoceania

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She has flip flopped on Iraq in more ways and more often than Kerry did, another reason she will NEVER get my vote... who else will convince her to change her mind one more time? For once we agree.. no Hilary.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 14

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 3:13:56 PM

UtopianRanger

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I have no problem with a lady chief executive...it might even be what we one day need - But not THAT lady.
I think it's time we take the Clintons and Bushes and banish them to the UK or some other place that likes blue-bloods.

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 15

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 3:14:22 PM

WyrdRich

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Yeah, but where Hillary flits and dances, Kerry put his foot right in the middle of it.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 3:22:17 PM

sophia37

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I'd vote for Hillary.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

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RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 3:27:15 PM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I know its a bit of a novelty for a representative to champion the views of his/her constituents. Boom Boom !

If they are consistent with those views through out their entire careers or at least a large portion of them, I say "Yeah, they represent their public". If they suddenly change their statements because a portion of their consituency threatened to withdraw support, I call that being without intrinsic value. I would feel the same about it if someone suddenly changed their position on abortion one way or another to get elected... either a person stands for something or they stand for nothing.... just my view.

The broad sweep of national politics is such that compromises and fudges of all kinds are necessary.
In New York, presumably those compromises came from BOTH sides ie the Ms Clinton camp and the Democratic Party camp at both National and State level. This is the way thing are in the real world. To get elected an appeal has to be made to as wide spectrum of voters as possible,just a simple fact of life really.

To expect pristine purity in "democratic" politics is just plain naive. What selective electors need to do is try to read between the lines of the coded imprecisions that major politicians indulge in. Hard line Republicans/Democrats will vote for the proverbial monkey parroting the "right" party line. ...just MY view !

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 18

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 3:41:38 PM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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So where do you draw the line between being a mindless robot that serves only certain constituencies based upon their power within a key congressional district, and having some conviction with which you stand by? There is no reason to have representative government if we can just run ourselves by Gallop Opinion Polls...smiles.

I do agree compromise is necessary, but I see a difference between changing your world view and not stating it. In other words, Hillary Clinton could have just kept her opinions to herself, and promised not to vote with her convictions, or she could publicly disavow her previous convictions... publicly disavowing a conviction is like lying to me, how can she be trusted, and where are her real sympathies?

We only get what we expect, if we expect nothing better, we will get nothing better. I want better than whores running my country, and I am not voting for them. I am casting my vote naively, yet confidently... or I will not cast it at all.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 19

RE: Hilary Clinton We are Doomed - 1/20/2007 3:48:42 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I have no problem with a lady chief executive...it might even be what we one day need - But not THAT lady.
I think it's time we take the Clintons and Bushes and banish them to the UK or some other place that likes blue-bloods.

- R

I couldn't have said it better.
No more Clintons, no more Bush's!

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 20

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