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RE: Bad Submissive - 4/19/2005 6:33:02 AM

Manawyddan

Posts: 701
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Petaluma (Northern California)
Status: offline

ardentpet, most of the advice I would have given has already appeared on this thread, so I won't post at length. However, I will add this affirmation: based on your profile and your writing, nothing at all suggests a bad submissive to me. It suggests only an intelligent, articulate young woman who is showing a perfectly reasonable amount of caution when dealing with unknown quantities over the internet.

_____________________________

_______________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor"
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
_______________________________________________

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 61

RE: Bad Submissive - 4/21/2005 7:50:01 PM

resademilo

Posts: 29
Joined: 1/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

Hmm...interesting question. If she were my daughter, I'd want her to quite jerking around on the internet and join a group like Black Rose's or TES's TNG. If she couldn't, I would want her to get a pre-paid cell phone and search for a good local top in her area. Get references and play in public first.

My usual saftey spiel...which is a lot less then most safety nuts would want...but I really don't think the BDSM world, be it online or offline is all that dangerous...at least in comparisson to the vanilla world, espcially for submissive women. In the BDSM world, people are always on the lookout for abusers...not so in the nilla world.

Taggard

Speaking as a former member of Black Rose and a member of SMiL in Denmark, having traveled across the ocean and served as a sub as well as having been a sub here in my hometown, not wanting to use the phone after a couple of emails hasn't made me "unserious."

Actually I've found most Doms who have had the chance to talk to me on the phone have spent all their time trying to either 1. phone sex me 2. talk about what gets them off or 3. brag about what they have done kinkywise.

Sorry not interested. Sex and kink talk is cheap.

Now as for real problem situations with losers getting my number, yeah i can speak from experience. And even with some folks you can know them for months and they can call several times and be ok then out of the blue they get psycho on you.

I had this Dom try to jerk off to me talking on the phone (only when i realized what he was doing i stopped talking). He didn't get off got pissed and got off the phone. A few months later he calls me out of the blue and says something about he could be in town.

I was like well you don't know where i live. And he said i can know in a matter of minutes. I don't need your name or anything all i need is the number i have.

So there. It's not safe to give out your numbers to people you don't know well and sometimes you never know them well.

Personally I see the phone on equal grounds as IMs. I don't give out my IMs to most because i end up deleting them in the same day.

Being ready to talk on the phone doesn't make you real nor serious it just means that's something you're comfortable doing. I was comfortable hopping on a plane and going to a foreign country where i didn't speak the language. I guess i could say a person who doesn't do that is "unserious" and i doubt many would.

It's all personal choice. I leave the phone calls for setting up meetings because the last thing i want to hear is another Dom trying to get off some sex on the phone.

Oh and Taggard I know you're into play and being a Top and all. But not everyone is looking to run out and get their ass spanked and call it a day. I hate that advice of go out and play in public first.

That's good if a person wants to do exhibitioning but honestly that's not for everyone. I'd never tell a stranger to do that. Join a group for education means. Don't join it as a way to play. Do that if that's what you want, not because someone suggests it.

< Message edited by resademilo -- 4/21/2005 7:56:41 PM >

_____________________________

"A man whose desire is to be something separate from himself, . . . invariably succeeds in being what he wants to be. That is his punishment. Those who want a mask have to wear it." (Oscar Wilde)

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 62

RE: Bad Submissive - 4/21/2005 8:06:39 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: resademilo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

Hmm...interesting question. If she were my daughter, I'd want her to quite jerking around on the internet and join a group like Black Rose's or TES's TNG. If she couldn't, I would want her to get a pre-paid cell phone and search for a good local top in her area. Get references and play in public first.

My usual saftey spiel...which is a lot less then most safety nuts would want...but I really don't think the BDSM world, be it online or offline is all that dangerous...at least in comparisson to the vanilla world, espcially for submissive women. In the BDSM world, people are always on the lookout for abusers...not so in the nilla world.

Taggard

Speaking as a former member of Black Rose and a member of SMiL in Denmark, having traveled across the ocean and served as a sub as well as having been a sub here in my hometown, not wanting to use the phone after a couple of emails hasn't made me "unserious."

Actually I've found most Doms who have had the chance to talk to me on the phone have spent all their time trying to either 1. phone sex me 2. talk about what gets them off or 3. brag about what they have done kinkywise.

Sorry not interested. Sex and kink talk is cheap.

Now as for real problem situations with losers getting my number, yeah i can speak from experience. And even with some folks you can know them for months and they can call several times and be ok then out of the blue they get psycho on you.

I had this Dom try to jerk off to me talking on the phone (only when i realized what he was doing i stopped talking). He didn't get off got pissed and got off the phone. A few months later he calls me out of the blue and says something about he could be in town.

I was like well you don't know where i live. And he said i can know in a matter of minutes. I don't need your name or anything all i need is the number i have.

So there. It's not safe to give out your numbers to people you don't know well and sometimes you never know them well.

Personally I see the phone on equal grounds as IMs. I don't give out my IMs to most because i end up deleting them in the same day.

Being ready to talk on the phone doesn't make you real nor serious it just means that's something you're comfortable doing. I was comfortable hopping on a plane and going to a foreign country where i didn't speak the language. I guess i could say a person who doesn't do that is "unserious" and i doubt many would.

It's all personal choice. I leave the phone calls for setting up meetings because the last thing i want to hear is another Dom trying to get off some sex on the phone.

Oh and Taggard I know you're into play and being a Top and all. But not everyone is looking to run out and get their ass spanked and call it a day. I hate that advice of go out and play in public first.

That's good if a person wants to do exhibitioning but honestly that's not for everyone. I'd never tell a stranger to do that. Join a group for education means. Don't join it as a way to play. Do that if that's what you want, not because someone suggests it.

I'll have to agree with resademilo on these points. I'm a femdom so it's the other side of the coin, but even as the pursuer in an online relationship I would be the one doing the calling, I would not give my number out to a guy on the net if we'd just met. And I would initiate that call when I was ready -- not when he started nagging for it. That has nothing to do with who is dom or sub, either.

And I don't think women should think the only way they can meet "safe, real players" is at munches or play parties or events. Some of us don't want to go that route. Some of us did, and found they didn't like that "scene." There are plenty of other ways to meet kinky partners and set up a face to face meeting in a safe way.

And not everyone is out in their kink and can be legitimately verified ways Taggard suggests. And so what? What if he's a corporate exec at a well known firm and can't be carrying around his "official kinkster" membership card proudly? What if he can't give you recommendations of people he has met "in the scene"? What if he doesn't want anything to do with the public scene? Does that make him less safe or less real?

Safety comes down to specific decisions (like not giving out your phone number to someone you don't trust and not meeting someone alone) and preparedness.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to resademilo)

Post #: 63

RE: Bad Submissive - 4/22/2005 5:54:33 PM

baileythorne

Posts: 264
Joined: 6/6/2004
Status: offline

Rule #1: There are no rules :-)

However, these are my guidelines:

If it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

Treat others the way you would like to be treated.

If someone has a temper tantrum, be thankful for the early warning
which helps you decide you do not want to invest in this person further.

Vent to friends if it helps :-)

One final comment: if anyone I interact with reacts by attacking my self-esteem,
they get no second chances. It is a huge red flag in my world. Don't let a total
stranger pass judgement on you - only those you who have taken the time to
earn your respect.

--bailey

_____________________________

Dance like no one's watching and
Love like you've never been hurt.

(in reply to ardentpet)

Post #: 64

RE: Bad Submissive - 4/27/2005 12:56:27 PM

DreamWeaverAz

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

I will appologize in advance for perhaps rehashing thoughts that othes have already said about this but it never hurts to have one more voice..lol

I have always said, again in My limited experience, that respect is earned and not something to be demanded just because one claims to be a Master or Dom/me. I dont expect anybody who doesnt know Me to call Me Sir..or god help Me...Ma'am...lol...and I dont expect Others to blindly accept because of Capping or not ...what ever the situation. I dont think its right to expect such respect from others blindly. We all have to show we earn the respect through actions and words and not just from claiming to be something whether we are or not.

if you are a bad submissive for staying with in your beliefs and not jumping at every beck and whim then shrek is a porno movie.

_____________________________

Honor and Trust and Respect before anything other

(in reply to ardentpet)

Post #: 65

RE: Bad Submissive - 4/29/2005 10:28:58 PM

Vivstress

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline

NOOOO you most certainly are NOT a bad sub...fuck them...seriously...LOL, no i'm not hitting on you, i like men only...something i would tell my daughter -Miss Vivi

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 66

RE: Bad Submissive - 4/30/2005 4:32:40 PM

dragonofjapan

Posts: 91
Joined: 6/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

The lifestyle is choked with male doms - maybe 6 or 7 for every fem/sub and that just defies logic and Nature's balance. Focus50.

I would say there are 6 or 7 confused wannabees for every actual male dom. Really I think more like 15 to 20.

Now of course you are a very bad sub. Why I bet you were not on your knees the entire time.

One of my subs put an ad online a couple of years ago. I was stunned with the detrus.

I actually have zero trust I will find anyone on line. Asking a sub to wade through the mounds to find a speckle, seems to be far too much to ask of one so noble.

Zip

_____________________________

He who rules truly serves
She who serves truly rules

Life is not measured by the breaths we take,
but by the things which take our breath away

Honor is not making good choices,
it is dealing with the consequences.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 67

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/3/2005 11:14:33 AM

silkrose

Posts: 9
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

Could a good DOM make a good Submission go bad/ without even knowing they are doing it ?

(in reply to dragonofjapan)

Post #: 68

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/3/2005 11:27:08 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I don't know that you could call them a good dom then if they didn't know they were doing it.

Good people can create bad relationships, yes. Whether through ignorance, faults, bad chemistry or whatever else makes relationships go bad, dominants are not immune.

(in reply to silkrose)

Post #: 69

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/3/2005 10:44:09 PM

baileythorne

Posts: 264
Joined: 6/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: silkrose

Could a good DOM make a good Submission go bad/ without even knowing they are doing it ?

Sometimes people's styles are not compatible. Two dominant styles I see often in D/s relationships are those that like to micromanage and those that like to give general direction and expect the submissive to step up, problem solve, manage, and get results. There are two complimentary submissive styles.

If you have a dominant who likes to micromanage and a submissive who doesn't like to be given such detailed instructions, you can end up with two good people and a bad relationship. Ditto for the opposite combination. Not being able to please the dominant can make the submissive feel bad & frustrate the dominant.

So I would say that a good dominant could make a good submissive appear to be bad, just through incompatible styles. But a good dominant would also take responsibility for that, work on it, or release the submissive.

--bailey

< Message edited by baileythorne -- 5/3/2005 10:45:21 PM >

_____________________________

Dance like no one's watching and
Love like you've never been hurt.

(in reply to silkrose)

Post #: 70

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/8/2005 7:35:40 PM

DrkAngl

Posts: 145
Joined: 4/9/2005
Status: offline

quote:

calling him Sir. He then told me that I was ignorant

In my opinion, these were no Doms. I understand not feeling safe enough to call someone sir and not wanting to talk via phone just from one or two chats online. That's not enough time to gain anyone's trust.

A lot of Doms would have understood and accepted your concerns. They might have even insisted on taking it a little slow at first while you two got to know each other. It's different with everyone I know.

Anyways, if they cannot accept what you need as a comfort level, then I wouldn't consider them safe to play with. It sets off all the warning bells in my mind. Just my five cents worth.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 71

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/12/2005 4:28:42 AM

Kay50

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/25/2005
Status: offline

Of course you are not a "bad submissive". It seems to me that you were treating the two "Doms" as you ordinarily would in a vanilla relationship. And I don't think that is bad at all. I am much older than you - 50 - (ugh!) but relatively inexperienced in this lifestyle. What I have found, quite often , are men who claim they are Doms and are just basically rude. Any kind of societal rule about how to treat other people with some kind of dignity and respect is blown out of the window. I think it's a mix of being online and believing they can get away with such behavior,that allows them to act this way. You reacted in a very safe and sane manner. It is behavior that is perfectly acceptablable in a vanilla life, but can be quickly discarded online. I give you credit for standing up to your feelings and thoughts. Sometimes it is very difficult to do so.

BTW, I have met online some great people too...it just takes awhile to find them!!!

(in reply to Overlord218)

Post #: 72

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/12/2005 12:24:29 PM

Lepidoptera

Posts: 161
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline

Being a submissive does NOT mean that you are submissive to all doms, everywhere.

People who try to dom me without gaining my respect first just piss me off. I'm intelligent and attractive, and I do not respect people who are dumber than I am. My former Master always said that he enjoyed strong women because it means that he just that much stronger- it takes very little to dom a doormat, considerably less so to dom a strong person.

That being said, once a dom has gained my respect, then I submit. But only until then do I do so. I think that in order for that to happen, you really need to meet in person. You can't submit to someone you've never seen, not really.

(in reply to Kay50)

Post #: 73

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/14/2005 1:13:36 PM

cutenprettypet

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

i want to add my own personal experience here too. i am also new. and within the first day of being on cm, i found many predators telling me i was not a true submissive. that just because they demanded respect and i explained i would not give myself to them until i developed trust and security, i was a horrid girl and would never meet any 'dom's' expecations, and to leave the site.

the first two days were so horrible i even deactivated my account. the next day i was so upset with myself for just giving up, that i restarted with a new name and found out about the block feature... haha i had not seen it before.

yes it seems hard to avoid being yelled at, or told i am not worthy.
i've just had to learn that other's on this site can truely be jerks. (believe me, i have definitely cried over what people have called me in the short time i have been here)

i usually take what others think of me to heart, but it is difficult to remove yourself at times. to take that step back and realise that the person saying such things is the real person in trouble. i have always been an idealist, it is my submissive personality to believe in others quickly. (i am very gullible)

good luck in your search, and learn from the real 'humans' on this site. not all are jerks. (i love that this is the place i can talk freely of my true desires, and not feel ashamed)

< Message edited by cutenprettypet -- 5/14/2005 5:37:15 PM >

_____________________________

much love and luck to all!

(in reply to ardentpet)

Post #: 74

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/14/2005 6:39:24 PM

slavelearning

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

there are somany that think that because we are submisives/slaves we must call all of them the title of Master/Mistress/Sir well im sorry but thats not the way it works not here pove to me that you are real in the sense that im not going to tun my cam on and strip and show you my body and play with myself for the perverts that destroy this lifestyle they are just stupid not ignorant just plain stupid you were not wrong nor impolite they need to get aclue and read before they pretend!

(in reply to ardentpet)

Post #: 75

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/15/2005 11:08:10 AM

amara

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline

course you're not. they shouldn't expect you to do anything that you're not comfortable with just because you're a sub. your not a slut or easy, just into something a little different. just as a 'normal' person wouldn't kiss a guy, or hold hands or call them their boyfrind until they knew them you shouldn't have to cal them sir. frankly it is ludicrious calling someone sir unless you know them and respect them. and if they were decent people they wouldn't have said that :)

(in reply to ardentpet)

Post #: 76

RE: Bad Submissive - 5/15/2005 11:13:02 AM

amara

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline

just thought i'd add that one of the main problems is differentiating(sp?) between people who are doms and control freaks. a real dom should respect you and care for you and will be willing, and in fact demand to take the time to get to know you and establish rules to make sure that you are safe and happy. a control freak will always end up putting you down, it's like an ego trip for them. they probably don't even realise the difference themselves so be VERY careful!! there are some eccelent sites that deal with these things, i'm just starting out myself and everything i've read makes me very aware of just how careful you have to be.

(in reply to Manawyddan)

Post #: 77

RE: Bad Submissive - 7/5/2005 10:16:19 PM

SirDiscipliner69

Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

Good response...I particuliarly like the sea turtle imagery...

how true...

(in reply to Oumae)

Post #: 78

RE: Bad Submissive - 7/5/2005 11:48:42 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

Holy crap, how can this thread still be going???

quote:

ORIGINAL: resademilo
Speaking as a former member of Black Rose and a member of SMiL in Denmark, having traveled across the ocean and served as a sub as well as having been a sub here in my hometown, not wanting to use the phone after a couple of emails hasn't made me "unserious."

You might be as serious as cancer, but if I don't talk to a prospective slave on the phone (or see a live web cam feed or something else to prove they are what they say) within the first few days of a correspondence, I won't waste any more time on it.

Maybe I can just afford to be picky...and maybe you can as well.

quote:

Actually I've found most Doms who have had the chance to talk to me on the phone have spent all their time trying to either 1. phone sex me 2. talk about what gets them off or 3. brag about what they have done kinkywise.

Most doms you meet online are losers...I think everyone knows that.

quote:

Now as for real problem situations with losers getting my number, yeah i can speak from experience. And even with some folks you can know them for months and they can call several times and be ok then out of the blue they get psycho on you.

So you mean months of email won't protect you from losers??? *Shock, horror surprise* So maybe talking on the phone without giving away any information (like getting pre-paid cellular or something) really isn't any more dangerous then waiting months to get to know someone.

quote:

Being ready to talk on the phone doesn't make you real nor serious it just means that's something you're comfortable doing.

It also means they are the gender they say they are (or can fake it on the phone). As a straight fem sub, I imagine you have very little experience dealing with online female subs, so you have no idea how many men there are out there pretending to be women. The more one spends time in this black hole, the more one needs to rely on things like phone calls to ensure time is not wasted.

quote:

Oh and Taggard I know you're into play and being a Top and all. But not everyone is looking to run out and get their ass spanked and call it a day. I hate that advice of go out and play in public first.

That's good if a person wants to do exhibitioning but honestly that's not for everyone. I'd never tell a stranger to do that. Join a group for education means. Don't join it as a way to play. Do that if that's what you want, not because someone suggests it.

It's pretty clear that you don't understand why I recommend playing in public first...so we'll just leave it at that...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to resademilo)

Post #: 79

RE: Bad Submissive - 7/7/2005 12:17:34 AM

Hiro98

Posts: 2
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline

You are not a bad sub, but just unfortunately met the wrong dom, never think yourself bad, people have different tastes. You are a good sub when you meet the right dom. Believe me

(in reply to Overlord218)

Post #: 80

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