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RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 8:42:55 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I guess America isn't the "Land of the Free" OR the "Home of The Brave", because people REALLY seem scared shit-less over immigrants w/o papers.




so violating immigration laws is a good thing? So we should just open our borders to those terrorists that choose to come here because they want to?


Terrorists! You're equating the guy who works 3 jobs to feed a family, but doesn't have PAPERS to say, Timothy McVie?

quote:


I am not scared shit-less, just want our country's borders controlled according to the law of the land, not the law of the lawless


The price of Freedom and Liberty is accepting the risk of OTHER PEOPLE having Freedom and Liberty.

Decide how "Nazi" a country you wanna live in. As a Jew who lost family to the Nazis, I'd rather have NO PAPERS than the chance someone will say to me, "Und vere are your papers? DEINE PAPIERE! MACHT SCHNELL!"

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 8:45:33 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks Sinergy   I never could spell.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 8:48:27 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Thanks Sinergy   I never could spell.


My pleasure,

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 8:49:52 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I guess America isn't the "Land of the Free" OR the "Home of The Brave", because people REALLY seem scared shit-less over immigrants w/o papers.




so violating immigration laws is a good thing? So we should just open our borders to those terrorists that choose to come here because they want to?


Terrorists! You're equating the guy who works 3 jobs to feed a family, but doesn't have PAPERS to say, Timothy McVie?

NO   Didn't say that, Infact I asked a question - hence the question mark

quote:


I am not scared shit-less, just want our country's borders controlled according to the law of the land, not the law of the lawless


The price of Freedom and Liberty is accepting the risk of OTHER PEOPLE having Freedom and Liberty.

Decide how "Nazi" a country you wanna live in. As a Jew who lost family to the Nazis, I'd rather have NO PAPERS than the chance someone will say to me, "Und vere are your papers? DEINE PAPIERE! MACHT SCHNELL!"


Nazi?   You mean the law of the land on immigration has made us all Nazi's?  I'm confused.   Oh and my papers are in my pocket right where the law of the land  requires them to be.  That is why I get paid those big bucks - LOL - you know    I followed the law

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 8:57:24 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I guess America isn't the "Land of the Free" OR the "Home of The Brave", because people REALLY seem scared shit-less over immigrants w/o papers.




so violating immigration laws is a good thing? So we should just open our borders to those terrorists that choose to come here because they want to?


Terrorists! You're equating the guy who works 3 jobs to feed a family, but doesn't have PAPERS to say, Timothy McVie?

NO   Didn't say that, Infact I asked a question - hence the question mark

quote:


I am not scared shit-less, just want our country's borders controlled according to the law of the land, not the law of the lawless


The price of Freedom and Liberty is accepting the risk of OTHER PEOPLE having Freedom and Liberty.

Decide how "Nazi" a country you wanna live in. As a Jew who lost family to the Nazis, I'd rather have NO PAPERS than the chance someone will say to me, "Und vere are your papers? DEINE PAPIERE! MACHT SCHNELL!"


Nazi?   You mean the law of the land on immigration has made us all Nazi's?  I'm confused.   Oh and my papers are in my pocket right where the law of the land  requires them to be.  That is why I get paid those big bucks - LOL - you know    I followed the law


So I climb off my surfboard and walk up onto the beach to relate.

A couple of Monkeyboy's Homeland Security Nazis walk up and demand I show them my papers.

I dont have them.  They dont fit in the pocket of my Kanvas By Katin board shorts.  I look confused.  I get hauled off to Gitmo.

Sure, they followed the law, but I remember a law abiding citizenry that were not detained by law enforcement without this thing called "probable cause."

Walking up onto the beach with my surfboard, please explain the probable cause which would require a law enforcement professional to try to detain me?

"People who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"  Ben Franklin.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 8:57:54 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Amy Goodman of Democracy Now is an award winning journalist whose broadcast is listener supported...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:04:43 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Oh and my papers are in my pocket right where the law of the land requires them to be.


Please provide a citation showing me that to be the Law of The Land.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:13:45 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Reading the original information along with this post, I got the impression that the familly( including the minor child who was a Canadian citizen) in question was kicked out of Canada for some reason.  They were trying to return, and were refused entry into Canada.  For some reason America is getting heat for Canada decision in this case.  The policy would be to send them to the proper embassy, except that would be Canada who has refused to take them, and Iran where they are fleeing from.  I bet if any nation wanted to take them( already being banned from Canada) we would send them on thier happy way.   For some reason Amy goodman is not including why they were thrown out of Canada in her article.  Now is that bias or simply poor reporting.?

< Message edited by luckydog1 -- 2/24/2007 9:14:36 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:14:32 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I was under the impression that the Fourteenth Amendment was drawn up to give full citizenship to freed slaves in 1868.
That's what we were taught in grammer school.

Does anyone in here think that it was crafted under President Grant's Administration to give citizenship to the children of illegal aliens who sneak into our country?
And it certainly needs to be clarified so that it is not used as a loophole by criminals.
Ireland just did away with citizenship by birth two years ago.
So should we and it should be retroactive to 1986 when we had that "one-time" amnesty under Reagan.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 2/24/2007 9:20:29 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:17:34 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Amy Goodman of Democracy Now is an award winning journalist whose broadcast is listener supported...



      Translation:  Her audience is too small to allow her to exist in a market based economy.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:19:32 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think it's necessarily the right thing to do either (Geez, you'd think we could do just a wee bit better than that) But -

That is exactly how huddled masses were treated (far worse, in fact) when they landed and were wended through Ellis Island near NYC, about 120140 years ago. This method of "processing immigrants" lasted for years.

In fact, if they were deemed unhealthy or otherwise unfit, did they help them at all, from their "new country?"
- These were very desperate people indeed - famine victims, people feeling religious persecution, very young adults with no families, and yes - children, too. Some were dying of various diseases, and either knew it, or didn't. 

No, they got no help (or very little help) - the immigration officials at the time just told them they had to go back to wherever they came from, and-or shipped them back there.

Only healthy-able-bodied folks were welcome, for the most part. 

It's not particularly humane. But it's not new, either.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/24/2007 9:28:43 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:19:47 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Amy Goodman of Democracy Now is an award winning journalist whose broadcast is listener supported...



     Translation:  Her audience is too small to allow her to exist in a market based economy.

Translation, she has values and has not sold them out for a buck like the corporate whore journalists.. but one would have to have values to understand something so complex

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:20:12 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


So I climb off my surfboard and walk up onto the beach to relate.

A couple of Monkeyboy's Homeland Security Nazis walk up and demand I show them my papers.

I dont have them.  They dont fit in the pocket of my Kanvas By Katin board shorts.  I look confused.  I get hauled off to Gitmo.

Sure, they followed the law, but I remember a law abiding citizenry that were not detained by law enforcement without this thing called "probable cause."

Walking up onto the beach with my surfboard, please explain the probable cause which would require a law enforcement professional to try to detain me?

"People who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"  Ben Franklin.

Sinergy


I was trained that there is an actual law that requires me and people like me to carry ID that doesn't apply to the majority of the country - And believe me it it a real hastle to get it replaced when I lose my wallet.  So I don't think you are in much danger.    Didn't say the law made good sense.
 
As for Bush's "Nazi's"   I didn't know that he hired any.  When did that happen?
 
As for those that are being detained, at least it appears that they are getting due process.   When I was detained overseas I wasn't afforded that protection.
 
So I guess the question is, or at least should be - Do we have laws and enforce them or not?
 
 
 
 

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:21:28 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Oh and my papers are in my pocket right where the law of the land requires them to be.


Please provide a citation showing me that to be the Law of The Land.




I believe it is in Title 32 which applies to military   Not everyone

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:22:20 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


So I climb off my surfboard and walk up onto the beach to relate.

A couple of Monkeyboy's Homeland Security Nazis walk up and demand I show them my papers.

I dont have them.  They dont fit in the pocket of my Kanvas By Katin board shorts.  I look confused.  I get hauled off to Gitmo.

Sure, they followed the law, but I remember a law abiding citizenry that were not detained by law enforcement without this thing called "probable cause."

Walking up onto the beach with my surfboard, please explain the probable cause which would require a law enforcement professional to try to detain me?

"People who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"  Ben Franklin.

Sinergy


I was trained that there is an actual law that requires me and people like me to carry ID that doesn't apply to the majority of the country - And believe me it it a real hastle to get it replaced when I lose my wallet.  So I don't think you are in much danger.    Didn't say the law made good sense.
 
As for Bush's "Nazi's"   I didn't know that he hired any.  When did that happen?
 
As for those that are being detained, at least it appears that they are getting due process.   When I was detained overseas I wasn't afforded that protection.
 
So I guess the question is, or at least should be - Do we have laws and enforce them or not?
 
 


No we don't, we only enforce the laws that we want to enforce.
Why not just throw the rule book out? We don't need any laws.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:23:27 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Since no one here has said they are "scared shitless" of illegal aliens, your strawman argument seems pretty weak.


Don't take it so personally.




I find it amusing that a poster thinks a Constitutional guarantee is a "strawman argument."

Are they suggesting that Thomas Jefferson should go see the Wizard of Oz to get his heart?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:26:39 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


So I climb off my surfboard and walk up onto the beach to relate.

A couple of Monkeyboy's Homeland Security Nazis walk up and demand I show them my papers.

I dont have them.  They dont fit in the pocket of my Kanvas By Katin board shorts.  I look confused.  I get hauled off to Gitmo.

Sure, they followed the law, but I remember a law abiding citizenry that were not detained by law enforcement without this thing called "probable cause."

Walking up onto the beach with my surfboard, please explain the probable cause which would require a law enforcement professional to try to detain me?

"People who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"  Ben Franklin.

Sinergy


I was trained that there is an actual law that requires me and people like me to carry ID that doesn't apply to the majority of the country - And believe me it it a real hastle to get it replaced when I lose my wallet.  So I don't think you are in much danger.    Didn't say the law made good sense.
 
As for Bush's "Nazi's"   I didn't know that he hired any.  When did that happen?
 
As for those that are being detained, at least it appears that they are getting due process.   When I was detained overseas I wasn't afforded that protection.
 
So I guess the question is, or at least should be - Do we have laws and enforce them or not?
 
 


No we don't, we only enforce the laws that we want to enforce.
Why not just throw the rule book out? We don't need any laws.


OK Mz Mia   I take it that you are infavor of no laws.  Me I am in favor of enforcing the laws we have.  Do they do that selectively - yeah unfortunatley  Should they - no   Glad for your opinion tho

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:29:40 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I guess America isn't the "Land of the Free" OR the "Home of The Brave", because people REALLY seem scared shit-less over immigrants w/o papers.


Accusation versus response; typical of an indefensible position.

What about the Law of the "Land of the Free & Brave"? If only 25,000 out of 4 million rapists were incarcerated and the rest out on the streets your position would be to grant amnesty to them all? Lack of consistency is an indication of hypocrisy.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:31:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Amy Goodman of Democracy Now is an award winning journalist whose broadcast is listener supported...



     Translation:  Her audience is too small to allow her to exist in a market based economy.


Wyrd, LOL, do you think the radio station did a "Nationwide Search" for that position?
I wonder if she was good at doing research papers?

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/24/2007 9:37:05 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


So I climb off my surfboard and walk up onto the beach to relate.

A couple of Monkeyboy's Homeland Security Nazis walk up and demand I show them my papers.

I dont have them.  They dont fit in the pocket of my Kanvas By Katin board shorts.  I look confused.  I get hauled off to Gitmo.

Sure, they followed the law, but I remember a law abiding citizenry that were not detained by law enforcement without this thing called "probable cause."

Walking up onto the beach with my surfboard, please explain the probable cause which would require a law enforcement professional to try to detain me?

"People who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"  Ben Franklin.

Sinergy



I was trained that there is an actual law that requires me and people like me to carry ID that doesn't apply to the majority of the country
 

 
Fair enough, are you suggesting that the rules you were trained to follow apply to everybody else?

quote:



- And believe me it it a real hastle to get it replaced when I lose my wallet.  So I don't think you are in much danger.    Didn't say the law made good sense.



So, it doesnt make good sense, but it is important that we keep enforcing it?

How will you feel when all the states who still have Sodomy laws (some of which include oral copulation) start getting enforced?

quote:



As for those that are being detained, at least it appears that they are getting due process.   When I was detained overseas I wasn't afforded that protection.
 

 
According to your logic, a person who was arrested must be guilty because, as we all know, he/she was arrested?

Please clarify the probable cause the police had to ask me for my ID as I walked up onto the beach with my surfboard?

What actual law was I in violation of?

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 120
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