Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? )

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? )

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? )

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 6:44:56 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

"The new US stealth fighter, the F-22 Raptor, was deployed for the first time to Asia earlier this month. On Feb. 11, twelve Raptors flying from Hawaii to Japan were forced to turn back when a software glitch crashed all of the F-22s' on-board computers as they crossed the international date line. The delay in arrival in Japan was previously reported, with rumors of problems with the software. CNN television, however, this morning reported that every fighter completely lost all navigation and communications when they crossed the international date line. They reportedly had to turn around and follow their tankers by visual contact back to Hawaii. According to the CNN story, if they had not been with their tankers, or the weather had been bad, this would have been serious. CNN has not put up anything on their website yet."

To which, I might add:

"You are flying to Japan, Cancel or Allow?"

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

Post #: 1

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 7:15:55 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Source?

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 2

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 7:17:44 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news_article/2357/First-F-22A-Raptors-arrive-at-Kadena.html

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 3

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 7:19:31 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

I saw that on CNN.
It was a glitch in one of the onboard computers.
Evidently it was programed time-wise to account for crossing the International Dateline.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 4

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 8:10:36 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news_article/2357/First-F-22A-Raptors-arrive-at-Kadena.html

Thanks for the link. The original poster talked about this being a stealth fighter.

It is not. It is simply a fighter built by Northrop or Lockheed which is far superior to the F-16. They built it and
tried to sell it to the US government, who turned it down for years.

At least we have a ways to wait for the panic about the Y3K bug.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 5

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 8:14:26 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

It's stuffed full of RAM and has an actively managed signature. What more do you need to be "Stealth"?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 6

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 8:42:52 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

What more do you need to be stealth ?

Anti reflective paint, exhaust coolers, a physical design that makes it hard to see. An adaptive RADAR cancelling system and communications that are outside normal bands that can be detected (they wish they had the last one, closest they got is burst technology, what it does is compresses a transmission of whatever length into a millisecond or so, to avoid triangulation)

If you ever have a real US stealth bomber coming at you with the sun at it's tail you will never know what hit you. Of course they probsably scrapped them, or sold them to Israel or China.

Does anyone remember what they called those superfast fighters they scrapped about 15 years or so ago ? They actually called them reconnaisance, not fighters, but they were the fastest thing going for a while. The titanium ones. They had two designations, but they had a nickname, does anyone remember this ?

At any rate, your tax dollars are spent by people who are not held accountable. What do you expect is going to happen ?

T

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 7

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 8:51:40 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Was that the Sr-22 "Blackbirds?"

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 8

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 8:54:00 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It's stuffed full of RAM and has an actively managed signature. What more do you need to be "Stealth"?

Well, since you asked.

It needs a certain type of paint which is fuzzy/noreflective to radar.

It needs to be built with no angles of some shape, I want to say 90 degree, but I think it is something weird like <64 degrees, so that it does not bounce radar rays back to the source correctly.

There are a bunch of other things to make it stealth.

Stealth refers to technology to lower it's radar signature.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 9

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 8:54:55 PM

Sternhand4

Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

SR-71 BLACKBIRD RECON plane developed by Kelly Johnson and the 'skunkworks" team

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 10

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 9:07:31 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Does anyone remember what they called those superfast fighters they scrapped about 15 years or so ago ? They actually called them reconnaisance, not fighters, but they were the fastest thing going for a while. The titanium ones. They had two designations, but they had a nickname, does anyone remember this ?

Odds are fairly good that a new superfast spy plane based on a new engine technology is currently being developed or in use. This is perhaps 3x faster than the (2xthe speed of sound) SR-71, and entails a new technology of propulsion involving repeated explosions. I want to say SCRAM jet technology, but it sticks in my mind that that is something different.

There was an article in Popular Mechanics last year talking about this.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 11

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 9:09:51 PM

DominantEngineer

Posts: 31
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline

you know if I were to build a plane with a glass cockpit, I would at least put in A MAGNETIC COMPAS AND MECHANICAL ALTIMETER. Technology is great but come on. One software bug causing the whole nav system to shit itself. sounds like Microsuck wrote the flight control system.

(in reply to Sternhand4)

Post #: 12

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 9:14:07 PM

Sternhand4

Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

The SR-71 theoretically was replaced by the Aurora..
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/aurora.html

< Message edited by Sternhand4 -- 2/25/2007 9:33:23 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 13

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 9:24:09 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Incidentally, was the last MIG to be able to fly without a computer the 27 ? Or what, I don't remember. What that meant is that it can fly after an EMP, it was totally hydraulic.

That IMO was a very good move by the people who designed it. Granted, the weapons systems probably depended on computers, but flight did not. To me, I work on electronic things for a living, and I must say that to depend on electronics for your very life is not desirable. Not at all.

FYI, hydraulic, pneumatic and mechanical systems can be inspected for wear and tear. Hydraulic pressures can be measured and when cylinders need new seals, they can be replaced. Any cracking or fraying hose can be replaced, or just do it at the end of the predetermined service life. They do it all the time.

With electronics you can't do that. Most electronics failures not caused by a short circuit or otherwise faulty attachments, improper power, whatever, are caused by the failure of capacitors. It isn't quite practical to just change all the capacitors on the circuit boards.

What's more when you bring a computer into it, it's a damn longshot that they have a sensor to tell you there is excessive ripple voltage on the 2.9V line, which can totally screw the system up.

And now if one plane screws up none of them can go ?

US the lone superpower in the world ? That's the biggest joke in the world, but you'll have to forgive me for not laughing. Next thing you know we'll probably nuke ourselves because of a software glitch. Then they decide who gets the blame. I can tell you who that will be, whoever has the most important natural resources.

What happens when a 'civilization' strives for the perfect killing machine so much, that it comes out so complex that it doesn't work ?

Let the events unfold and we will all know. The strong get cocksure of themselves and almost always fuck up. Recently Lebanon kicked Israel the fuck out, who would've predicted that ?

Here's another thing, quickie then I go. Israel is known to have quite a stockpile of nukes. Wanna know the irony of it ? They can't use them, it would be too close to home ! I got in an argument with someone about Moskit 2 missiles, and they, rightly, pointed out the limited range. They don't need all that much range folks. Iran has some, and is enriching uranium as we speak.

Something had better happen to change the flavor of future history, if any. Otherwise it is going to be mighty unpleasant.

Enough for now.

T

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 14

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 9:36:52 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

With electronics you can't do that. Most electronics failures not caused by a short circuit or otherwise faulty attachments, improper power, whatever, are caused by the failure of capacitors. It isn't quite practical to just change all the capacitors on the circuit boards.

I cannot tell you how many arguments I had with bean counters. when I did computers, and tried to point out to to them that the fundamental law of electronics is not whether or not it will break, it is when it will break.

Which is not to say that hydraulics do not break. But a well designed hydraulic system will last a lot longer and be a lot easier to troubleshoot, fix, and get back into action than an electronic system.

In the modern world, nobody replaces a component on a circuit board. They replace the entire board and take the broken one back to the shop.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 15

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 9:49:00 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Sinergy, true. Actually in my business we take the whole thing, we can't get replacement boards. Back at another job I did institute a plan doing that, but alot of units were similar and I actually just made a working board with all the available features. Whatever wasn't used, oh well, but it was compatible with all the units under our care. The road guys literally did what you said, I did the component level diagnostics.

Stern; That is one seriously excellent article. Thank you for it, I saved it.

And thank yall for reminding me about the YF17, also known as the SR71. I needed the memory jog. I think I still have the original magazine article about the Blackbird in Popular Mechanics. If I can find it I'll scan it and upload it somewhere.

Actually, this last article to which I referred was the most interesting thing I've read since that article in Pop Mechanics. It was obviously written for readers who understand at least a little bit about aerodynamics. Nice, very nice.

T

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 16

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 10:03:03 PM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

In the past the US gave Isreal the latestiest weapons like F-16 etc and in return They would report back on how effective it was and ways to improve it. Many reports say the Isreally took out all the High Tech stuff and made the Fighter a truely effective and easy to operate weapons system..I wonder if they are going to get a few F-22 to test.

Another waste of Tax dollars I find is in Weapons Research and Development..or "Trying to invent something that already is in use" The latestest is a Countersystem to the RPG (Rocket Propeled Grenade). This weapon made in Russia is cheap, easily mass produced, simple to operate and deadly. The Isreally now have and deployed a system that warns of being tracked by an RPG and will fire a missle to intercept the RPG rocket. The US has purchased and tested the system and reports a 98% success rate. Now the fun part, a US Company is conducting research into a weapon just like the one the Isreally have, they hope to have a workable prototype for testing in 2012..no idea when it will be ready for deployment. The US Government is going with the US Company. Of course in the mean time US Troops in the Middle East have nothing to use in defense of the RPG. Has anyone heard of a Manufacturing License?

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 17

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 11:09:16 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

I'm trying to figure out what the point of this plane is. The US has the technology to attack anyone without it anyway, certainly against the countries they would attack anyway. They hardly replace ballistic missiles if their is an entanglement with Russia or China.

Oh well, I guess middle America will be safe from commies, even if it can't afford to protect its poor from lousy education and healthcare.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 18

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/25/2007 11:18:43 PM

SleepyBeast

Posts: 122
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It's stuffed full of RAM and has an actively managed signature. What more do you need to be "Stealth"?

Well, since you asked.

It needs a certain type of paint which is fuzzy/noreflective to radar.

It needs to be built with no angles of some shape, I want to say 90 degree, but I think it is something weird like <64 degrees, so that it does not bounce radar rays back to the source correctly.

There are a bunch of other things to make it stealth.

Stealth refers to technology to lower it's radar signature.

Sinergy

I think you two are both talking about the same thing, RAM when used to talk about a stealth craft is Radar Absorbant Material. You would also want to lower its sound signature and its thermal signature.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 19

RE: Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? ) - 2/26/2007 12:25:54 AM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I'm trying to figure out what the point of this plane is. The US has the technology to attack anyone without it anyway, certainly against the countries they would attack anyway. They hardly replace ballistic missiles if their is an entanglement with Russia or China.

Oh well, I guess middle America will be safe from commies, even if it can't afford to protect its poor from lousy education and healthcare.

The Raptors went into development just before the Soviet Union collapsed. They were scheduled to replace the aging fleet of F15 Eagles. After the collapse the USAF did not end development, but slowed it down since the Cold War had ended. Originally the USAF wanted 750 Raptors but that has been reduced to 180 since cheaper ways have been found to outfit much of the technology into existing fighters. The Air Force believed a large fleet of Raptors is not necessary for the time being.

The F22 is faster, more agile, and has improved stealth technology. The offensive and defensive weapon systems is also far superior than any other fighter.

Although the F18 Hornets are now available to a select number of allies (Canada, Australia, Spain, Kuwait, Switzerland, and Finland. Also France is currently trying to work out a deal)...Currently the Raptor is not available for international buyers.

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 2/26/2007 12:31:00 AM >

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Your Taxdollars at Work ( Who needs enemies? )

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.125