RE: Terri Schiavo

RE: Terri Schiavo (Full Version)

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stormsfate -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/24/2005 12:44:27 PM)
quote: Soon she will pass on and all will be forgotten until the next media story hits the air waves and bombardes us with some other controversy that can serve as debate topic I will not forget, unfortunately. I wish I could. f

sub4hire -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/24/2005 1:08:14 PM)
quote: I will not forget, I'm with you I will not forget either. The freedom we once cherished is being chipped away fragment by fragment. What will this country be like in 50 year's? I wish Terri peace when she passes it is long over due.

ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/24/2005 2:08:46 PM)
quote: The freedom we once cherished is being chipped away fragment by fragment how so?

sub4hire -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/24/2005 2:50:06 PM)
quote: how so? To quote merc in a thread right beside this one. "As yet we see another instance of the Government feeling that they know better then we when it comes to how we live and die you have to wonder how much real privacy exists. We now have the ultimate death reality show going on in Florida. When the struggle for death becomes a sick "Survivor" type news show, it's a sad state for the nation. This may just be a joke now, but in a few years???? " That is one single example.

ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/24/2005 7:41:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sub4hire quote: how so? To quote merc in a thread right beside this one. "As yet we see another instance of the Government feeling that they know better then we when it comes to how we live and die you have to wonder how much real privacy exists. We now have the ultimate death reality show going on in Florida. When the struggle for death becomes a sick "Survivor" type news show, it's a sad state for the nation. This may just be a joke now, but in a few years???? " That is one single example. Congress has every right to step in, we elect our politicians to protect our rights...the courts should not and do not have all the power, and that would be just if not more dangerous in the long run. Murderers on death row are alllowed appeal after appeal for years and decades...there is a possibility of foul play here, the possibility exists that she has been misdiagnosed, if there is even the slightest chance, no matter how tiny it may be how can they not allow this family the oppurtunity they allow convicted killers. There was an alligator captured the other day which was a threat to people in that area, everyone was so worried about the gator, making sure it wasn't hurt or killed, the gator doesn't know better, so they assured the public this morning that the gator was safe, in a safe place and it's being fed. Reason i bring that up is because i see great irony in that. Michael Shaivo's attorney says that now terri is able to excersize her rights....i think that is absurd... what rights is she excersizing? Who knows this is what she wanted? The husband said of her wishes 7 years after the fact, there is nothing in writing, and they are now just taking this man's word on it? Witness after witness has testified to his abuse, to his neglect, and they are going on what he says? well, i am not going to rant about this anymore .... i promise : ) i just have them in my prayers and hope she passes quickly and as less painfully as possible ( and yes she does feel pain because they even have to give her menstrual meds during her period because of cramps, she moans and even moves her hands to her belly...and this is recorded by the nurses and doctors, it isn't heresay, she was even probed once with a long sharp wooden stick and she moaned and reacted to it, so yes, she does feel pain) Disclaimer: The above is only my opinion, i am not saying that is the what is "right" or "wrong" or what is real or unreal, it is simply my opinion and the facts as i have read them only.

GordonFreeman -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/24/2005 11:11:49 PM)
I am not sure how you can watch a video tape on cnn and then make proclamations - "she does feel pain" - specialist after specialist over 14 years have concluded that she has zero conciousness - the number zero precludes any slim chance of recovery. The reactions she does make are purely reflexive - and not connected at all to any thought process. I appreciate that you are a feeling person, and a news broadcast makes things seems personal and unique, but remember difficult decisions to let loved ones pass are being made at every moment around the country and world - what is so special about this one? Myself, I am going to spend the weekend thinking about that gator you mentioned. I hope he's ok.

GordonFreeman -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/25/2005 1:28:18 PM)
One last thing - part testimonial, part polemic - if you are bothered by this issue, this is a must read. Culture of Life

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/25/2005 8:42:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GordonFreeman difficult decisions to let loved ones pass are being made at every moment around the country and world - what is so special about this one? Myself, I am going to spend the weekend thinking about that gator you mentioned. I hope he's ok. Plus there are a lot of people, some younger that are alert/asking for help and we cannot find it in our hearts to save... I mean why are people living on the streets because they cannot afford a home, and why are people/children included suffering and dying? This lady is special, but this is no way to live for anyone or we would all strive to be more like that... I mean there are days I want to be unaware, but come on now... Wish I knew what gator you were talking about, I'd do the same, lol.. M

pantera -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/26/2005 4:39:03 AM)
What bothers me the most about this case is that her husband is the one with the legal rights to decide. It may be the law, but laws sometimes are wrong. I believe that she is, in fact, in a vegetative state and that goes both ways. I'm no expert, but that is what the experts seem to agree on. If this is right, she doesn't even know she's there. However, if she is bringing happiness to her parents, why kill her? I believe her parents (with any money they can collect through charity or any other means) should be responsible for the medical bills, but they should have the legal authority. As long as there is life, there is hope; and I'm guessing that is what these folks are hanging on to. More than likely, she will not recover, but....what if something is invented that can reverse brain damage?... NOBODY will love my daughter more than I do. It is certainly easier (I'm not saying easy) for Michael Schiavo to say "pull the plug" than it is for Terri's parents to say the same thing. ...and the way she's going to die!!! (well, she can't feel it...I keep forgetting that). Why not give her a lethal injection? that's right!!!! the law!!!! we cannot kill her, but it's ok to let her die... hmmmm!

sub4hire -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/26/2005 8:20:29 AM)
quote: What bothers me the most about this case is that her husband is the one with the legal rights to decide. It may be the law, but laws sometimes are wrong. Put yourself in her position. What if they two of you were a good couple who communicated quite well before the accident. You told one another what you wanted if anything ever happened to either one of you. No life support. Yet, the accident happens. He says...ok. Well I have to know. I just have to know if my wife whom I love dearly can return to me in some form. He hangs on for 7 year's before he decides there has to be a conclusion. Obviously from reading everything I have, in my point of view he loved her dearly. He still does. All of that money. He devoted it to her care. In reality being her husband did he have to? I don't know how the money came to be, but I bet he could have embezzled it if he wanted to. He sat by her side before he gave up hope. Thats love and devotion. Sure, he has moved on now. Since he did give up hope. Frankly my dom is going to be my husband this year. If it came down to life support I want him beside me saying no. He is the only person who can do it for me. I'm not exactly on that imtimate of a level with my father. If I were on life support right now, I'd want him to stand strong with my father if my father wanted me to continue on. These were her wishes. Aside from that you need to move on. How many vacations have they missed out on? How much living have they missed out on? Terri will always be with them in spirit. Right now she is not with them at all. We have to live our own lives. Coming from someone who spent 7 month's in a hospital last year. Our lives fly by too fast for us to sit on the side of a hospital bed where nobody knows you are there anyway. Fifteen years they have been sitting. They may have lost their good year's already. Time to let go. At least that is my opinion on it.

domtimothy46176 -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/27/2005 2:37:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir Congress has every right to step in, we elect our politicians to protect our rights...the courts should not and do not have all the power, and that would be just if not more dangerous in the long run. I have to disagree with you on this. The consitution clearly limits the authority of Congress. To paraphrase: Those powers not specifically accorded to the Federal government by the Constitution nor explicictly denied the State governments shall remain with the State governments. In actuality, our nation has strayed far from the limited Federal authority envisioned by the original framers of the Constitution, but when it comes to the topic of rights, in this context, it's supposed to be the final arbiter. Congress is ~supposed~ to have clearly delineated authority to manage national issues, such as common defense, tariffs, treaties, interstate commerce, etc. The more common issues such as marriage license requirements, education standards, etc. are ~supposed~ to be decided at the state level. In order for Congress to usurp State authority it must first show a Consitutional basis for doing so, or at least that's the way it's ~supposed~ to work. These days, most Congressional authority is based on the premise that something 'affects' interstate commerce. You can trace the departure from the original framework to the Civil War, if you're interested. For better or worse, it was at that point in time the that the individual States first lost their sovereignty and became extensions of the Federal government. Prior to that time, the laws governing day-to-day life could vary quite a bit from state to state and were addressed on the state level. By the same token, Federal courts were not nearly as active in interfering in State affairs pre-Civil War as they are today. That change is in large part to the Federal intervention in the restructuring of the post-war rebel territory. The balance of power within the US changed dramatically in a few short years and the individual States have never recovered most of the autonomy they lost during that era. End of history lesson for today, but something I occasionally feel the need to share when the subject of "Congress needing to take action" arises. Timothy

sweetpleaser -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 5:51:21 AM)
I totally agree with you Gloria. I trust my husband with my life and would want him to carry out my wishes. I would not want my family to be at my bedside for 15 years and miss everything else of life. What an incredible burden on them. Terri has been given morphine and is very peaceful. As peaceful as she should have been 15 years ago. I hope her family can begin to grieve and then move on to happier times.

pantera -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 6:23:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sub4hire Put yourself in her position. What if they two of you were a good couple who communicated quite well before the accident. You told one another what you wanted if anything ever happened to either one of you. I'm not saying they didn't... I'm not saying that is best to stay alive or the other way around.... If you believe that it is time for her to go, then you believe that she is in a vegetative state...that goes both ways: if she is, she cannot feel, think, suffer, be happy, etc-- so it doesn't matter to HER how she is because she doesn't know. It is silly for us to speculate if she wanted one thing or the other... WE DON'T KNOW EITHER WAY Her parents want her alive.... parents (except the cases of people who don't love anybody) love more than husbands...period. I'm not saying husbands cannot love a lot- I'm just saying that I love my daughter more than what I could ever love my husband.... I'm saying that my husband's mother loves him more than I do. My question is: WHY DOESN'T HE LEAVE HER ALONE??... if he has moved on (which is normal, I would have done the same thing) then he truely needs to get out of her life and leave her to her parents, the people that care about her MORE than anybody else.

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 7:30:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth We should not be talking about this. The government should not have made the private pain of this woman and her husband a national point of debate. Creeping "Big Brother-ism" is now at a walking pace, getting ready to jog. The only good to come of this is if people finally wake up. Hopefully people will put themselves in the place of Terri Schiavo or her husband and get angry that their difficult personal choices can be discounted so easily by the Federal Government. BRAVO!!!!! I agree wholeheartedly, as well as with the rest of your post! cello

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 7:34:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: perverseangelic I believe she should be allowed to die, but not through slow starvation. This is one of those things that makes me wish we had a law legalizing physician assisted death. I've obviously come in late on this discussion because I seem to be echoing other peoples' sentiments, but I feel the same way too perverse. As was said in another post we can help our beloved pets out of this world when they are suffering, but not our beloved human relatives??? <shakes head> And they put Dr. Kevorkian in jail... unbelieveable!

snmsub -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 7:35:08 AM)
I don't agree that families (parents) feel more love for a person than their spouse does. Family is just family.. there is no choice involved. A spouse chooses to be with their husband or wife and the bond is very strong. As far as whether she is suffering or not... no-one knows for sure but her, and she can't say one way or the other.

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 7:46:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stormsfate First of all, I do not believe that Michael Schiavo is the appropriate person to be her guardian. He has a long time girlfriend and small children with this woman. There is a conflict of interests in my opinion. He has apparently used almost $600,000 of a $1.2 million medical trust for Terri's benefit on legal expenses in fighting to allow her to die. If her parents want to care for her, and bear the expense involved in sustaining her life, I feel they should have that option, barring written instructions from Terri to the contrary. All we really have is Michael Schiavo's statements that she would not want to live this way. He is far from an unbiased party here. ? I've always wondered, why didn't her husband simply divorce her and allow her parents to take custody of her? He's moved on with his life, another family etc. If they want to take care of her, fine. Personally, if this had happened to me I'd rather die and am making plans for that so there will be no questions asked if, G-d forbid, it ever happens to me. quote: If she is to die, why not simply stick a needle in her arm? Would that not be much more humane? That's the "humane" thing to do, isn't it? We don't hesitate to do that for our four-legged or winged family members and I am thankful (and always heartbroken) for that responsibility. Whether people want to admit it or not, the religious right is insidiously insinuating (alliteration not intended) itself into ALL our lives. Abortion will be next. cello

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 7:50:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: onceburned Actually, George W. Bush in 1999 signed a law in Texas which allows hospitals to discontinue life support if the hospital ethics panel approves... even if the family wants life support to continue. This law was put to use last week when an infant was removed from life support despite the family's objections. For some reason this case got little attention in the media. But you can listen to a Nationa Public Radio news report about it if you would like: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4555268 Right on onceburned! I heard that too. Now the question is WHY was there so little attention paid in the media? cello

Mercnbeth -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 9:17:11 AM)
quote: I've always wondered, why didn't her husband simply divorce her and allow her parents to take custody of her? cello, It's an interesting good question and an interesting point. It's by far the easier solution. The monetary reward was not contingent upon the designated care taker. As husband he received an amount and so did the parents. I stand on the basis premise of my initial post and maintain my opinion that we shouldn't know. But since everyone is speculating about other people's emotions here's mine. Maybe he's telling the truth. Maybe he did love her and still loves her enough to not want to see her live in this manner. Maybe he is fighting for her. Look at the normal perception a person has in the two respective positions. A husband wants a partner. Within a spousal relationship there is communication, intimacy, and emotional interface. A parent fundamentally is much more basic. A parent, especially a loving parent as hers obviously are, always sees a child as a baby to protect. They see communication and thought even when none is there. In their mind she is still the day old baby, whose gas is perceived as a smile. They have no problem keeping her that way. Most of us with children have that same vision in our minds eye. That's what makes her husbands fight so difficult. Ultimately each side is seeing the person they love. Speculation regarding a criminal cause for her condition is just rhetoric. After 15 years and all the movements and manipulations that are applied to any person in a comatose state, there is no chance that any forensic evidence would still be there. Even Grissom and his team from Vegas CSI couldn't tie this back to something her husband may have done 15 years ago.

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 10:02:44 AM)
Merc n beth, I most certainly don't disagree with you on anything you've said on this entire thread. I find it repugnant that the "government" has chosen to get involved in this very private matter. I hope the 60%, or whatever the percentage was, will remember this come the next elections! cello

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