RE: Terri Schiavo

RE: Terri Schiavo (Full Version)

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stormsfate -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 11:59:04 AM)
I'm wondering, if she does not feel pain, why are they giving her a morphine drip for pain? http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_26 Is this just in case they are wrong and she does feel pain? Is there another reason they would give her morphine? f

ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 12:22:00 PM)
quote: I find it repugnant that the "government" has chosen to get involved in this very private matter. I hope the 60%, or whatever the percentage was, will remember this come the next elections! cello What exactly did government do that was so repugnant? Excuse me but congress does have the right to get involved and they did so without breaking any laws or going against our constitution. another thing, why does the left have to automatically link this case with abortion and the religious right? It really seems, in my opinion, that many just want her to die to spite the "religious right", now, to me, Thats repugnant!

sub4hire -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 12:54:16 PM)
quote: Is this just in case they are wrong and she does feel pain? Is there another reason they would give her morphine? My opinion is you're probably right. My mother had severe brain damage. Their logic for going against the dnr order was, they could not tell the extent of the brain damange until she woke up. Since Terri has woken up they have evaluated her time and time again. To my knowledge she doesn't respond to anything. So, obviously the part of the brain that controls nerves is gone. Hence no pain. Yet, how can one truly know? How can you be in their mind, when you have never been in anyones mind like that before? So, I'd say it is precautionary just in case. By the way all of those video's. Following balloons..even though they had tried a great many times and she only did follow it once. Those are all several year's old now. We have no idea what she looks like today. What condition she is in. Sad way to end it. Or course if there are more articles, you guys seem to be able to come up with them. To further educate me please send me in the right direction. I've been reading a lot on this case. My views stand as I've already stated them. If it were me. I'd want to die. There is no way I would have wanted to take the lives away of those I cared so deeply about for so long. I'd hope I also had someone who could stand tall for me and end it.

stormsfate -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 1:06:22 PM)
quote: If it were me. I'd want to die. There is no way I would have wanted to take the lives away of those I cared so deeply about for so long. I'd hope I also had someone who could stand tall for me and end it. I realize a lot of people say that when they are healthy and looking upon a situation that they cannot imagine being in themselves. I've seen a number of times people who have made those same statement regarding loss of a limb, being confined to a wheelchair, being bedridden, etc., and yet when it happens to them, suddently they realize that quality of life does not necessarily have to do with how much one is capable of doing. What represents quality of life to one, may not represent it for someone else. I cannot say if she would have wanted to continue living in this state, but I don't feel anyone else can either with any degree of certainty. She left no written directive. The more I read, the more my position also remains the same. I don't understand how this could happen in this country, and while I already had a pretty low opinion of society as a whole, its sunk to an all time low. best regards, f

GordonFreeman -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 1:07:56 PM)
quote: why does the left have to automatically link this case with abortion and the religious right? It really seems, in my opinion, that many just want her to die to spite the "religious right", now, to me, Thats repugnant! That is grade 'A' Republican spin. Karl Rove himself could not have said it better! Remember this is just the first salvo in the "Culture of Life" battle that is to define the 2006 elections. Both sides (especially the right) are guilty of reducing this woman's last moment to a talking point. I think of it more as depressing than repugnant.

happypervert -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 1:51:34 PM)
quote: another thing, why does the left have to automatically link this case with abortion and the religious right? It really seems, in my opinion, that many just want her to die to spite the "religious right", now, to me, Thats repugnant! The answer should be obvious with anti-abortionist Randall Terry involved in supporting Schiavo's "right to live in a permanent vegetative state". But you've got it wrong -- the left doesn't want her to die to spite the "religious right"; they surely supproted her right to a dignified end well before the religious right decided to use her as a pawn in a game of political chess. However, spite for the religious right as they lose the battle even after getting interference by congress is a bonus!

GordonFreeman -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 3:17:26 PM)
To anyone confused by the politics, this might help explain why many are very upset with Congress : Politics of Culture of Life

phoenix52 -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 5:11:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir another thing, why does the left have to automatically link this case with abortion and the religious right? It really seems, in my opinion, that many just want her to die to spite the "religious right", now, to me, Thats repugnant! With all due respect, i could care less about the religious right; i support the right of the next of kin to make medical care decisions for a person who is incapacitated. Michael is Terri's husband. He is her next of kin. She did not leave a living will, therefore, the decision falls to her next of kin. Not her mom, not the public, not Congress, her next of kin. If i were in this position, i would sincerely hope that my husband/Master had final say, rather than the parents who abused me when i was growing up. Of course i won't be in this position, because this issue has pushed me to make a living will. Again, not trying to be argumentative with you, just MHO. [;)] Edited to clarify - i was saying i had parents who abused me when i was growing up, not that Terri Schiavo did. Upon rereading, it kinda sounded like that was what i said. It's obvious to me that her parents care about her very much, just, once again IMHO, that they can't let go.

proudsub -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/28/2005 5:39:37 PM)
quote: Of course i won't be in this position, because this issue has pushed me to make a living will. That's the one good thing that has come out of this, a lot of people have done that in the last few weeks.

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 8:58:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GordonFreeman That is grade 'A' Republican spin. Karl Rove himself could not have said it better! Remember this is just the first salvo in the "Culture of Life" battle that is to define the 2006 elections. Both sides (especially the right) are guilty of reducing this woman's last moment to a talking point. I think of it more as depressing than repugnant. Yes Gordon, you said it better than I could have, especially the first sentence. I've learned not to argue with them after a point, so thank you for saying what I wanted to. cello "Religious Right" is an oxymoron

pantera -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 11:50:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: snmsub I don't agree that families (parents) feel more love for a person than their spouse does. Family is just family.. there is no choice involved. A spouse chooses to be with their husband or wife and the bond is very strong. As far as whether she is suffering or not... no-one knows for sure but her, and she can't say one way or the other. well... all I can do is ask you: do you have kids? I'm guessing you don't ( I don't know though) If I'm right and you don't have kids....then when you have them, you'll understand what I'm saying.

Atavist -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 12:43:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pantera well... all I can do is ask you: do you have kids? I'm guessing you don't ( I don't know though) If I'm right and you don't have kids....then when you have them, you'll understand what I'm saying. Lets follow your logic a bit. You say you have kids. Have more than one? Which one do you love most? Maybe you get the point. How do you quantify, calibrate, weigh love? The law has made the point moot as I understand it. Her husband, by law has the responsibility to make decisions in her interests. Its curious to me that Bush, Randall Terry et. al. feign so much concern about life, and yet Texas remains the execution capital of the western world. Hypocricy? You betcha.

ProtagonistLily -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 12:46:23 PM)
quote: Its curious to me that Bush, Randall Terry et. al. feign so much concern about life, and yet Texas remains the execution capital of the western world. Hypocricy? You betcha. As a side note, it was stated somewhere (I think Molly Ivins's book Shrub that GWB, while Governor of Texas, never spent more than 15 minutes on an execution review. L

onceburned -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 1:55:18 PM)
quote: Hypocricy? You betcha. Or consider that the United States, which has by far the highest per capita spending on medical care, lags behind the rest of the developed world in infant mortality. Despite being only 28th in the world, Bush and Congress continue to oppose expanding programs which would reduce infant mortality, preferring instead to cut taxes.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 2:02:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Atavist Its curious to me that Bush, Randall Terry et. al. feign so much concern about life, and yet Texas remains the execution capital of the western world. Hypocricy? You betcha. Amen Brother..... These posts advocating for Terry's life are very curious to me... I don't understand why anyone who is aware and can decide can want to live this way for one, and secondly why anyone would want to be such a burden on his family and the healthcare system. With soooooo many viable people (young and older) uninsured and uncared for, I don't understand why people feel this ONE life is The one to be saved. Along these same lines, I always wonder why the Right-to-Lifers can't focus on taking care of the already born, yet are fighting to save the unborn. I don't advocate abortion, but I'd rather someone didn't give birth than give birth and torture the offspring. M

stormsfate -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 2:26:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig These posts advocating for Terry's life are very curious to me... I don't understand why anyone who is aware and can decide can want to live this way for one, and secondly why anyone would want to be such a burden on his family and the healthcare system. With soooooo many viable people (young and older) uninsured and uncared for, I don't understand why people feel this ONE life is The one to be saved. Surely you aren't saying that only those who are healthy and require no assistance should continue to live? Wow...I think there are plenty of physically challenged people who would disagree with you. f (who is not even a right to live or pro life advocate)

Mercnbeth -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 2:38:34 PM)
quote: Bush and Congress continue to oppose expanding programs And I think Bush and the Republicans were behind the earthquake in Indonesia and the tsunami back in December. I saw a link in the "Black Helicopter Conspiracy News" site that said they were testing a new underwater weapon of mass destruction to be used against the Iranian submarine fleet in the war they have planned to start before the next election.

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 3:02:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth And I think Bush and the Republicans were behind the earthquake in Indonesia and the tsunami back in December. Gee, I thought that was Bill Clinton's fault! Isn't everything? <wink> cello

Atavist -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 3:16:38 PM)
Merc, That seems to be your boilerplate response to any criticism of Bush. Levity is great but in this case (at least) it doesn't wash. The facts, the numbers speak for themselves. I realize your a Libertarian, which often equates, it seems to "Republican". The world is not binary, there are nuances, even contradictions. The point was made that many of the "religious" right seem to have a very easy time of choosing who should live and who should die to suit their political agenda. You cant talk about family values, the right to life and go unchallenged when your state leads the western world in executions and has one of the worst childrens education and health insurance records in the entire country (with Bush as governor). I'm not an expert, I just follow the news. If I were an expert, I suspect I could give many more examples of right wing hypocrisy.

LadyBeckett -> RE: Terri Schiavo (3/29/2005 3:20:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig quote: ORIGINAL: Atavist Its curious to me that Bush, Randall Terry et. al. feign so much concern about life, and yet Texas remains the execution capital of the western world. Hypocricy? You betcha. Amen Brother..... These posts advocating for Terry's life are very curious to me... I don't understand why anyone who is aware and can decide can want to live this way for one, and secondly why anyone would want to be such a burden on his family and the healthcare system. With soooooo many viable people (young and older) uninsured and uncared for, I don't understand why people feel this ONE life is The one to be saved. Along these same lines, I always wonder why the Right-to-Lifers can't focus on taking care of the already born, yet are fighting to save the unborn. I don't advocate abortion, but I'd rather someone didn't give birth than give birth and torture the offspring. M I'll say amen brother and amen sister! It's been said (how many times?) that this has become a circus, and that is true. I don't advocate arbitrarily letting someone die, and certainly not starving someone to death because they are a burden on the system...come to think of it, would Dubya jr. be considered a burden on the system? [8\|] Okay, back on topic...however, in the absence of a living will, or some directive from the patient, a decision has to be made by someone who has the ability to be reasonable, fair, compassionate, and objective. I read up there somewhere that Terri is on a morphine drip. I don't know how long she has been on it, but if it was something started recently, it may be to ease the discomfort during the starvation process. Anyone that has ever had a "panic attack" will understand the concept of being trapped in terror, and unable to communicate on behalf of self. On the other hand, the medical profession has become a hit/miss practice of medicine. An assembly line, with quality care going to those who can pay. I watched a special about Terri Shiavo the other night, and there were differing positions between the doctors. One neurologist believed that she would come back from this. He went on to demonstrate how he had brought other patients back, and their progress. That raises a whole new set of questions. One being, why isn't he treating her? At any rate it brings to light how fragile the human condition actually is, and I have joined the ranks of those who have filed a living will. I wouldn't want to leave that decision on the head, heart, and in the hands of someone who would be emotional, distressed, feeling guilty, or traumatized by having to make it. I'll make it now. I too wonder why the Right to Lifer's don't focus their attention on the children already in the world instead of those pregnancies being aborted for (who can count!) the various reasons. I don't advocate abortion either, but I do think the activists need to re-evaluate their priorities and causes.

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