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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:22:24 AM

LadyAnnabelleLee

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/21/2007
Status: offline

Hello all,

When I started out (oh so long ago... *dramatic sigh*) I was of the opinion that all things slave had no spine, no willpower and were a rug for wiping your feet on. This is not the case with all of them. There are some that are incredibly strong individuals. They function according to societal norms, etcetra. Then you run into the more vocal people: the ones that claim to have no limits, those that feel they need pain constantly. The humilation/pain/spineless ones. We've all read their profiles. But not everyone falls into that category. Sambamanslilgirl is entitled to her opinion. Yes I realize she's getting rather defensive, but one must defend what they believe in. In the words of the song: "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."

In my personal opinion (which mind you, has changed over the course of time) a slave feels, a submissive thinks. This does not in any way shape or form mean that either is lesser of a being. Merely that they function on different levels. Up until I was shown a working relationship in which a strong woman called herself slave I thought otherwise. But opinions, much like "twue" knowledge (the Earth is flat, it revolves around the sun) change.

Sincerely,

Lady Annabelle Lee

(in reply to bearincuffs)

Post #: 81

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:22:57 AM

Shylahgirl

Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

Why does there have to be an argument at all?

If you don't respont to the negitive coments made about you thoughts then who really wins or looses.

In an argument there is never a winner, since it takes so much of your energy to win. So, why start a back and forth negativity stream in the first place?

Shylah

Ok, what if someone told you switches tended to be confused people unsuitable for long term relationships because they cannot decide who they are? Would that be just some sort of passing opinion to you, or would you feel judged by that?

BTW, I do not think that about switches at all, I am just noting that since you do not identify as a slave perhaps you could identify with the slams that some made on switches since you may have heard them (I have read people who actually say these things about switches and I find them full of hubris and I do not respect those opinions either)

I might feel momenteraly upset... but in the long run it wouldn't mean anything to me.

If that what they think, and if they feel negitivly about switches, then they have excluded a whole groupe of people and have there for lost out on some wonerful relationships/friendships. So, in the long run people who think negitivly of others are really hurting them selves, not me.

In the case of posts on a web sight like this, I don't know the person who is critisizing me, so why should I give any waight to what they say.

It is my oppinion that negitive people are negitive to others to cover up they're own insucuritys about how they think and feel about them selves.

Kind of like the bully on the school playground.

Hopefully that makes sence

Shylah

< Message edited by Shylahgirl -- 2/28/2007 11:24:58 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 82

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:29:16 AM

Shylahgirl

Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca

Who's arguing? If I don't understand something someone has said, I'll ask for clarification to gain understanding. It's better for me than working off of assumptions. I've never known this to be a bad thing. Although, I'm really starting to wonder at this point...

That wasn't only in responce to you but also to sambamanslilgirl saying "this will be a neverending argument"

I apologise if that seemed like a personal attac.

Shylah

_____________________________

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 83

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:33:04 AM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline

Thanks for clarifying! No apology needed, but thank you for it nonetheless.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 84

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:33:54 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

I might feel momenteraly upset... but in the long run it wouldn't mean anything to me.

But you are demanding others adhere to your way of being and not be upset by the very things that upset you.. which in my opinion is unreasonable to be honest. I am not a slave, but there are many people that come here who are slaves. She has a right to cling to her negative stereotypes as long as she likes... others have the right to question them.

If I made some statement about all black people or all gay people I would expect to be flamed for it... and she expected to be flamed for it too. She flamed slaves if you ask me, and she is crying foul when the torch hit her robe.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 85

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:38:58 AM

Shylahgirl

Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

Why do you care so much about what is said on this messege bord if it doesn't effect how you live your life?

Shylah

_____________________________

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 86

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:39:48 AM

hereyesruponyou

Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

quote:

flame away,BBBTBW, for i suspect i will be continuously singled from now until eternity.

While i agree posting this thread using such judgemental terms and expressions is a great way for you to get attention, i just don't believe that anyone here really cares all that much

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 87

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:40:06 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I wasn't uspet at all...I was just wondering whether she'd decide I was lying to myself about my orientation, or if perhaps her perceptions and judgements were inaccurate.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 88

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:42:09 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

Why do you care so much about what is said on this messege bord if it doesn't effect how you live your life?

Shylah

You are making assumptions about what I care for and what I do not, which is a red herring in the conversation. I do not really care about this message board. I do like some of the people that post here though, some of which identify as slaves

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 89

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:43:02 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

There aren't any labels to slap on the way people relate..........you have two individuals that form a union that's unique.

We can only define a marriage by it's legal status. The interaction inside that union is as varied as any D/s one, and the way it's structured and played out is, too. If we had to find a *term* for each *type* of marriage we'd be here 'til kingdom come.

But you're either married or you're not. You're either a husband/wife, or you're not etc.

In D/s you only have the *way it's played out* to go on, and only two common terms. (re. submissive/slave/this thread)

Why choose to use any label, then?......

...I sometimes say I'm a *slave* if it makes it easier for the person I'm speaking to, understand that I'm owned in a particular way. If THEIR point of reference is *slave or submissive*, then slave is closer, and a more accurate starting point, than submissive. It doesn't really describe my relationship, or me.

I'm in an environment where certain *terms* mean something to other people, I don't have any control over that, nor does it matter to me, but it does matter to some.

I've found that no matter what *term* I use, people will still load it with their own ideas. Even simply saying that I'm *owned* brings a raftload of supposition.

The problem with sambamanslilgirl's definition is that it loaded the *terms* with characteristics or traits. It's easy to accept someone's idea of being a slave as being *being collared*...because it's easily refuted if necessary, as a practical difference of opinion, or *style*.

If terms like clingy, less motivated, low self esteem, disorganised are used, people tend to feel slightly injured, especially as *submissive* had a positive spin and *slave* a rather negative one.

agirl

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 90

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:45:35 AM

hereyesruponyou

Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline

As for my opinion on the subject.... To me slaves are a subset of submissives. It is a further willingness to give up more of yourself, to accept that your Master knows better than you. Slaves subliment their feelings, opinions, and ideas to their Master's own. It's not that they don't make choices or act on their own, they just consider their Master's wishes, desires, likes, dislikes, opinions etc when making those choices. They don't put themselves first. The funny thing about that is their Master may put them first on a regular basis in caring for them. A good true M/s relationship will be positive and beneficial for both parties and both will derive good self-esteem, self-respect and pride in the way they relate with each other and in their strong bond.

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)

Post #: 91

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:47:27 AM

Shylahgirl

Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

Why do you care so much about what is said on this messege bord if it doesn't effect how you live your life?

Shylah

You are making assumptions about what I care for and what I do not, which is a red herring in the conversation. I do not really care about this message board. I do like some of the people that post here though, some of which identify as slaves

*sighs* I made that asumption because you seem to care alot about changing someones point of view to fit your own.

But since I don't really care if I win this converstaion or not I will let you have the last word and leave it at that.

Shylah :)

_____________________________

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 92

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:48:56 AM

bearincuffs

Posts: 1904
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou

As for my opinion on the subject.... To me slaves are a subset of submissives. It is a further willingness to give up more of yourself, to accept that your Master knows better than you. Slaves subliment their feelings, opinions, and ideas to their Master's own. It's not that they don't make choices or act on their own, they just consider their Master's wishes, desires, likes, dislikes, opinions etc when making those choices. They don't put themselves first. The funny thing about that is their Master may put them first on a regular basis in caring for them. A good true M/s relationship will be positive and beneficial for both parties and both will derive good self-esteem, self-respect and pride in the way they relate with each other and in their strong bond.

Well stated, don't believe I could've said this any better!

_____________________________

property of Master Dave of the House of Gemini

An it harm none, do as thou wilt
Do what you will, so long as it harms none
An it harm none, do what thou will
That it harm none, do as thou wilt
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)

Post #: 93

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:49:05 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

Why do you care so much about what is said on this messege bord if it doesn't effect how you live your life?

Shylah

You are making assumptions about what I care for and what I do not, which is a red herring in the conversation. I do not really care about this message board. I do like some of the people that post here though, some of which identify as slaves

Getting involved in a debate or discussion is not quite the same as *caring*. It's interesting to do so, and I, for one, appreciate the fact that poeple DO bother to carry on discussing and debating past just *stating their opinion*.

The unslavely and unsubmissive, agirl.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 94

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:49:28 AM

Shylahgirl

Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou

They don't put themselves first. The funny thing about that is their Master may put them first on a regular basis in caring for them. A good true M/s relationship will be positive and beneficial for both parties and both will derive good self-esteem, self-respect and pride in the way they relate with each other and in their strong bond.

Very will put.

Thank you.

Shylah

_____________________________

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)

Post #: 95

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:50:29 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

sighs* I made that asumption because you seem to care alot about changing someones point of view to fit your own.

But since I don't really care if I win this converstaion or not I will let you have the last word and leave it at that.

Shylah :)

Peace to you, but I would point out I am not trying to change anyone's opinion about anything. I am not that powerful and this is just a message board after all... And I do not consider this having the last word and I have not been snarky to you once... perhaps you can return that favor back to me?

Thanks

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 96

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:53:33 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you?

in the context of BDSM, D/s and/or M/s relationships, this slave sees both words as terms that folks use in an effort to describe themselves, their place in their relationships(or potential relationships) or with the world when discussing with others the many aspects of WIITWD. they are both terms that are highly subjective to an individual and their experience. every now and again, people who share similar views and definitions of the terms come together for friendship, fun and maybe even an intimate relationship.

some find joy in their struggle identifying with either term, some find joy that there is no struggle.

some submit to a select one or few, under certain conditions or not at all, while some submit to all that cross their path, regardless of what they identify as.

some find it effortless, as natural as breathing and some relish the difficulty and are satiated with triumph over conquering the unnatural feeling.

some live submissively 24/7 and for some it is a part of their varied schedule, regardless of their label.

some find it a positive, uplifting experience and some are sickened and repulsed at the mere thought of submission or slavery.

all of the above also include varying degrees of

in-between

very few, if any generalizations can be accurately made about "a" submissive or "a" slave, other than the obvious requirements for oxygen, liquid, nutrients and something, some ideal or someone to submit to.

in the context of an online message board, this slave sees them as terms that some are seeking to define, some offer personal definitions, others attempt to dispel the myth and misconception that either aren't "healthy". starting or replying to a post that uses both terms within the title sentence with a question mark at the end is generally a good way to stir up debate and arguement, especially if you lace your opinion about the terms with negative assumptions about the way others conduct their relationships.

quote:

Is there a difference for you?

for this slave, identifying as submissive instead of slave would have left her with a certain amount of control or authority, if you will, over her life as well as her day to day activities. there would be limits to this slave's submission and any Dom interested in her would have to respect those limits or move on.

identifying as slave means this slave has but one Master and His pleasure is paramount. He has complete and total authority, this slave has turned over her life to Him. HIS limits are the one's in place and the ones this slave adheres to.

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 97

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:54:05 AM

BBBTBW

Posts: 836
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

quote:

Well you need to know some slaves before you decide if we are all lowley and lack self esteem.

classic assumption on you as well as the others. i know and have friends who are slaves in the literal and/or mental sense.

i stand by opinions and dare not change them to conform the norm that is. as not every D/s relationship is alike the other, then no two opinions will be either. as also stated this will be a neverending argument until the bloody cows come home and there won't be a set right/wrong answers that everyone here has to follow. - something everyone who commented about my opinions failed to realize.

flame away,BBBTBW, for i suspect i will be continuously singled from now until eternity.

oh well
c'est le vie

Sambamanslilgirl,

YOU continuously ask to be flamed and when it happens, you get defensive about it. If you don't want it/can't handle it, stop asking for it. Otherwise, shutup and take your burning at the stake like all the other martyrs for their causes.

_____________________________

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 98

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 11:57:05 AM

nissa

Posts: 125
Joined: 2/28/2007
From: Carson City Nevada
Status: offline

Greetings

Labels mean absolutly nothing to me what-so-ever, they never have. Slave, submissive, bottom, masochist, dominant, master, mistress, top, sadist...call yourself anything that you feel fits your life...and forget about what others think about it.

i wish you well

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 99

RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/28/2007 12:31:52 PM

NControlofU

Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSM05478

Joy, thank you for putting that into a perspective that doesn't come naturally to me. I have always looked at it from the bottom half, that it was a term defined by the person who claims it. It never occured to me in terms of control inforced by the Top side, most definately something to think about.

Yes, as joy's Master, I defined our relationship and I set the parameters and she lives within them. She definately has her own opinions, feelings, and needs and I encourage her to express them to me, which she does. She also questions me whenever she needs clarification or wants to give me her input without coming right out and saying it, such as "Master, would you like one egg instead of your usual two, since you are trying to lose weight?" She questions me but not my authority over her. She lives by my rules every minute of every day and she serves me well. She is also well cared for, in return for her service to me. I value her very much and do take her ideas and feelings into consideration when I make decisions. She provides input, when I ask for it or she sees a need to offer it, and she accepts the decisions I make. She is most certainly a slave to me. A very good slave.

(in reply to BDSM05478)

Post #: 100

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