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RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 12:48:10 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Meat, how do you guys in Europe like your healthcare system? I mean are you satisfied with it?
Would you want to do away with it and go "out of pocket" payments?
Should the U.S. adopt your system?

Europe has several different payment systems for their healthcare, its hard to know how exactly they all work but all are social health systems.

I wouldn't change to the American system for these reasons. I don't have to worry about getting ill, I don't have to worry about being off work and not being able to pay my insurance. If I suffer a serious illness I don't have the extra worry of how I'm going to have to pay for everything.

My personal experience of the British health service is first class. I was seriously ill a couple of years ago, I had extensive and expensive treatment and had a year off work. There is no way I could have ever afforded to have paid everything. From what my brother said, if I was in the US it would have financially ruined me. He lives in the US so I'm assuming he knows what he is talking about. My father is 81 and has just had two new knees, no problems. He's on a pension so pays nothing towards healthcare but he has paid in all his life. My sister in law has cancer and is getting world class care in a university hospital. I've always gladly paid my tax for the service and I wish it was other people that needed to use it and not my family but these last couple of years we've needed it and its been great. There are horror stories that you hear about but its a huge oganisation so you will get some I guess but I've never personally met anyone who has been seriously ill and has complained about the health service, though there are a lot of political snipers who I guess, see private healthcare in their interests. I'm in Holland now and their health service is first class and I've had experience with France's. I think if Americans experienced a universal healthcare, the majority wouldn't go back to private healthcare. Of course you will get affluent people saying, if there was a private system they would get seen to straight away and wouldn't have to queue behind the riff-raff. In reality, that is for bunions because when they are seriously ill they all use the health service.

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Post #: 121

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 12:57:44 PM

ColdMind

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Then how do you suggest that healthcare be given to those who can't afford medical insurance? I agree that the government is far from perfect, but isn't that better than people dying because they can't afford medical care or prescription drugs? Few are lucky enough to have a stable good paying job, regardless of their skill. And the # of decent paying jobs is decreasing every day.

Little girl, you said that the 'rich' should pay. Did you already forget that?
You have so little life experience that you've no business offering an opinion on anything except breakfast cereal.
Pitifully it is the same thing you did in the homophobe thread, taking bits said by kids you know in Kansas and thinking that applies to life!

Do you hate the rich? Envy them? Fear them?

So many issues inside that head of yours...if you have health insurance I hope it covers Mental Health.

'Blah blah blah' With nothing to back it up.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 122

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:01:37 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColdMind

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Then how do you suggest that healthcare be given to those who can't afford medical insurance? I agree that the government is far from perfect, but isn't that better than people dying because they can't afford medical care or prescription drugs? Few are lucky enough to have a stable good paying job, regardless of their skill. And the # of decent paying jobs is decreasing every day.

Little girl, you said that the 'rich' should pay. Did you already forget that?
You have so little life experience that you've no business offering an opinion on anything except breakfast cereal.
Pitifully it is the same thing you did in the homophobe thread, taking bits said by kids you know in Kansas and thinking that applies to life!

Do you hate the rich? Envy them? Fear them?

So many issues inside that head of yours...if you have health insurance I hope it covers Mental Health.

'Blah blah blah' With nothing to back it up.

I guess you're alright Jack?

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Post #: 123

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:03:35 PM

defiantbadgirl

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I was asking someboy else's opinion who disagreed with me how they thought it should be paid for. Nice attitude problem.

(in reply to ColdMind)

Post #: 124

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:06:39 PM

ColdMind

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I am all right yes. I work a minimun wage job & get health insurance which covers mental health. Hahaha.
When I need some extra cash I just rob some rich bastard, I mean why not? Who cares if they earned their money... they are rich so they should be obligated to carry everyone else.

According to the Kansas font of wisdom it is the way to go.

Some one has to verbally slap her.

Have an opinion but don't present garbage as fact especially when your logic is so very flawed.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 125

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:10:43 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColdMind

I am all right yes. I work a minimun wage job & get health insurance which covers mental health. Hahaha.
When I need some extra cash I just rob some rich bastard, I mean why not? Who cares if they earned their money... they are rich so they should be obligated to carry everyone else.

Serious point. The rich live in a society that allows them to accumulate wealth, they have a duty to that society as much as everyone else does. If that wasn't the case, why are soldiers in Iraq supposedly protecting their interests? I can't work people out like you that think the rich deserve their own welfare system paid for by the poor.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Post #: 126

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:13:18 PM

NorthernGent

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These discussions will always boil down to the concept of personal interest versus social welfare.

Social welfare was never intended to be a continuous handout. It was the recognising of an imbalance in society and an attempt to address it by providing the means for all men/women to compete. The whole idea was to deny the aristocracy and landed classes the chance to exploit people who didn't have the basic necessities that are required to make a real go of life i.e. housing, health, education etc. The intended result was to get people into employment, generate economic growth and increase the standard of living throughout society. The ultimate aim being that everyone benefitted from a healthy society.

It is an admirable concept and one that has served Britons well, but in truth I don't think there is a need for universal health care in this day and age. When a population is well educated, in good health and has a high standard of living, there is no need for universal social programmes. The whole idea of the National Health Service was to satisfy need. I advocate reserving free health care for the poorest socio-economic groups in society. The NHS is being overburdened by people who have more than enough money to pay for their healthcare.

In terms of the practicalities, there will never be a welfare system without flaws as resources will always be scarce due to the natures of economics.

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Post #: 127

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:17:18 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

It is an admirable concept and one that has served Britons well, but in truth I don't think there is a need for universal health care in this day and age. When a population is well educated, in good health and has a high standard of living, there is no need for universal social programmes. The whole idea of the National Health Service was to satisfy need. I advocate reserving free health care for the poorest socio-economic groups in society. The NHS is being overburdened by people who have more than enough money to pay for their healthcare.

The moment this happens is the moment the poor get a third rate system. You surprise me.

Do you really think the health service will remain intact and the poor will be treated in the same facilities as the paying customers? I seriously doubt it.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 3/2/2007 1:19:29 PM >

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Post #: 128

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:18:32 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColdMind

I am all right yes. I work a minimun wage job & get health insurance which covers mental health. Hahaha.
When I need some extra cash I just rob some rich bastard, I mean why not? Who cares if they earned their money... they are rich so they should be obligated to carry everyone else.

According to the Kansas font of wisdom it is the way to go.

Some one has to verbally slap her.

Have an opinion but don't present garbage as fact especially when your logic is so very flawed.

ColdMind:
Perhaps you might enlighten us with a list of those ultra rich who have earned their money?
I remember reading the other day about Home Depot firing their CEO for imcompetence and giving him a 210 million dollar gift for doing such a poor job.
thompson

(in reply to ColdMind)

Post #: 129

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:24:04 PM

NorthernGent

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To add, the US today, and Britain today for that matter, is not like Britain of the 1940s where the country was bankrupt and most people didn't have a pot to piss in. Free universal health care was desperately need then, but not in today's world of comfort. It would only serve to act as a drain on the economy. There is no more money floating about unless someone is prepared to overthrow the government and take control of the direction of resources away from military adventure. The aim should be to provide free social welfare where it is needed, first and foremost.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 130

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:47:31 PM

ferryman777

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Joined: 2/23/2007
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yeah right, what we need is to do away with any and all health care programs, can't pay, then f@%k you. Right. Just like an associate of mine; who advocated to do away with Social Security (the dole), a real man should provide for his own retirement, ranted he for years. Then when his time came, he couldn't wait to get his 'dole' (as he called it); I bet he stood in line, panting and dancing the pee jig till he got to file. A min-wage facisist without a pot to pee in. We live in the years of enlightenment, comfort abounds everywhere. What planet are you on???? Better pray 24/7 you do not get sick or disabled. And; if you ever do, you will be the loudest crying min-wage guy on the block....help me, help me; see how many of your high & mighty CEO's call. Yup, we need to do away with any health program, better that money used to buy bombs and bullets.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 131

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 1:54:45 PM

NorthernGent

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You've missed a few pertinent points. Have another read.

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Post #: 132

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 2:52:25 PM

Level

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A right.

I know it's costly, and I know it can have ill effects on a nation's economy, but I just firmly believe in it. There has to be a way to do it without sinking the ship, so to speak.

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Post #: 133

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 2:55:43 PM

sleazy

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Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

A right.

I know it's costly, and I know it can have ill effects on a nation's economy, but I just firmly believe in it. There has to be a way to do it without sinking the ship, so to speak.

There is a way, but unfortunately it runs totally contrary to the nature of many governments.

Keep the red tape and bearaucrats away from it. Leave to professional managers and clinicians to do the jobs that need doing to perform the right service for the right price.

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Post #: 134

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 3:00:19 PM

cjenny

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Governments move so slowly..sometimes it feels like there just isn't going to be enough time to fix all the stuff that needs fixing. Not enough time, not enough money & not enough solutions

.

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Post #: 135

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 3:07:41 PM

seeksfemslave

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The NHS service in the UK is a wonderful civilised concept but it has clashed head on with middle and upper middle class vested interest and the feckless irresponsiblity of many in the working classes.

Thus quite literally millons of pounds are wasted on middle class scrounging and more millions wasted on working class scrounging.
Yes the same thing from both ends of the social spectrum, The Doctor wants but does not need ; gets, but frequently does not use the latest whizz bang diagnostic equipment.
Many patients want sick notes , treatment for "nerves, IVF treatment, ante natal treatment every 5 mines, free condoms, abortions every couple of years...etc etc etc.

Lets not forget the bean counters, the zillions of paper shifters the ridiculous price mark ups applied by the drug companies.

So what we have is the usual SNAFU..

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 136

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 3:35:10 PM

popeye1250

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Meat, you sound pretty happy with your healthcare system there.
"First Rate" is a pretty good accolade.
I'd be in favor of a system like that here in the U.S. but the big insurance cos would fight it tooth and nail I suppose.
Then there's the cost.
We could afford to do it but we'd have to do away with other things to do so like foreign aid.
Also, they said that last year (2006) illegal aliens cost Taxpayers $92B, they'd have to go too.
And we'd need to pull Troops out of a lot of countries. Doing all those things is fine with me! The sooner the better!
But, we'd have people in this country who'd want a national healthcare program but in the same breath they'd be saying ;"But there are people starving in Africa, Darfur, Somalia, South America etc etc ad nauseum.
This "world leader" crap is just too expensive!
They're running ads here on t.v. about how Bush should "do something" about Darfur. "Huh???"
I wonder if those same ads are running in China, Russia, Japan etc?
I mean what the hell does "Darfur" have to do with the U.S.? I never even heard of it until last year.
I couldn't care less about what happens in Africa or South America and I certainly don't want to give them any of my money. Fuck em!
Our Troops shouldn't be used as mercenaries or "peacekeepers" in foreign countries.
We need to get out of all this Imperialism and avoid anything with the words "world" or "global" in them
"World" or "global" = U.S. Pays!
So, it is financially doable to have a national healthcare plan in the U.S.
We shouldn't have 45-50 million U.S. Citizens in this country with no healthcare.
But, I also wouldn't want the govt involved in the day to day operations of a national healthcare plan.
They could collect the money to pay for it through taxation but I'd want a whole seperate non-govermental entity to run it.
I have dual American/Irish Citizenship so I could use their healthcare system too. And, I think that would entitle me to use the systems in other E.U. countries.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 3/2/2007 3:37:38 PM >

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Post #: 137

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 3:37:57 PM

farglebargle

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If the US doesn't provide "Foreign Aid" to the terrorists opposing Hugo Chavez, then how can the US tell the government which forms after the terrorists take over what to do?

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Post #: 138

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 3:41:56 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the US doesn't provide "Foreign Aid" to the terrorists opposing Hugo Chavez, then how can the US tell the government which forms after the terrorists take over what to do?

Fargle, who gives a shit?
Good luck to Venezuela, I hope they go communist. I couldn't care less what they do in their own country!
They can walk around painted pink and naked for all I care.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 139

RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/2/2007 3:47:02 PM

farglebargle

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Who give a shit? Everyone who thinks the US should be opposing Chavez. Not me, of course, I was just pointing out the benefit of defunding Foreign Aid.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 140

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