quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

Aqua,
  i have not read but a few post on this thread and i haven't even looked at the original post to see what this is even about...
 
However, the words here in your response are resounding with me. i will not post my personal experiences here in regards to childhood, loveless marriage or divorce but i did want to say i think you are SPOT ON with your views here and i applaude them...

UMs should always be protected and nurtured, they shouldn't be exposed to fighting and violence. Dysfunctioal people do this to kids, that's not limited to cheaters - non cheaters can be just as dysfunctional.  Try growing up in an alcoholic family - i'd take a cheating dad over an alcoholic dad any day of the week.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I have been on these forums for about 16 months. As regulars here know, subjects recycle, one of which is "what should the distracted married person do with his or her BDSM inclinations?" For me this is a complex question which defies easy answers or straightforward moral platitudes.

Thanks to Dan Savage, though, I have a new brilliantly coined term which might help me and others in future debates:

CIAW:

>Some fuckwits, of course, piously insist that Cheating Is Always Wrong. To the CIAW crowd, I say this: Fuck you, you self-righteous Pollyanna fucktards. I am so sick of CIAW types insisting with one breath that sex and sexual exclusivity are hugely important. Even the contemplation of an affair, to say nothing of its consummation, represents an unforgivable betrayal. And then in the very next breath, CIAWers insist that sex is so unimportant, so colossally trivial, that a person should be able to go without�forever!�if their mate is unwilling or incapable.

For the balance of the article, click on the link and go to the second the question by Some on the side.
 
cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I do believe most shrinks and people say that becoming an emotional viod is bad for you. But if you've got studies and reports saying otherwise I'd be happy to read them. And that does seem to be what you are suggesting people should do.
 
Sorry, you're reading that into my statements - what a ridiculous conclusion to draw from my words.

Excellent point. You aren't advising anyone. You are just saying that it's ok to lie which I happen to disagree with. You also know nothing about any situation other then your own. Therefore if you are going to make my point invalid based on that, you also make your own invalid.

Nope just saying don't be judgemental and accusatory of what others do when you don't have all the facts and make sweeping statements using words like "all" "everyone" etc.... Because you most definately don't represent how i think or feel - and i would guess many others out there reading as well. 

Wow... let me watch when your partner cheats on you. I'll bet you'll treat it just like they forget to bring home milk. Tell me, are cheaters just completely devoid of any responsiblity for breaking their own vows or do two wrongs really make a right in your head?

Maybe it did happen to me, maybe i handled it like a responsible adult should, maybe i didn't drag my kids into it becuase they have no place in my personal life.  Everything we do we are responsible for, everyting that happens to us in this world we play a part in it happening to us - if you want to believe otherwise that's your right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I have been on these forums for about 16 months. As regulars here know, subjects recycle, one of which is "what should the distracted married person do with his or her BDSM inclinations?" For me this is a complex question which defies easy answers or straightforward moral platitudes.

Thanks to Dan Savage, though, I have a new brilliantly coined term which might help me and others in future debates:

CIAW:

>Some fuckwits, of course, piously insist that Cheating Is Always Wrong. To the CIAW crowd, I say this: Fuck you, you self-righteous Pollyanna fucktards. I am so sick of CIAW types insisting with one breath that sex and sexual exclusivity are hugely important. Even the contemplation of an affair, to say nothing of its consummation, represents an unforgivable betrayal. And then in the very next breath, CIAWers insist that sex is so unimportant, so colossally trivial, that a person should be able to go without�forever!�if their mate is unwilling or incapable.

For the balance of the article, click on the link and go to the second the question by Some on the side. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I do believe most shrinks and people say that becoming an emotional viod is bad for you. But if you've got studies and reports saying otherwise I'd be happy to read them. And that does seem to be what you are suggesting people should do.
 
Sorry, you're reading that into my statements - what a ridiculous conclusion to draw from my words.

Excellent point. You aren't advising anyone. You are just saying that it's ok to lie which I happen to disagree with. You also know nothing about any situation other then your own. Therefore if you are going to make my point invalid based on that, you also make your own invalid.

Nope just saying don't be judgemental and accusatory of what others do when you don't have all the facts and make sweeping statements using words like "all" "everyone" etc.... Because you most definately don't represent how i think or feel - and i would guess many others out there reading as well. 

Wow... let me watch when your partner cheats on you. I'll bet you'll treat it just like they forget to bring home milk. Tell me, are cheaters just completely devoid of any responsiblity for breaking their own vows or do two wrongs really make a right in your head?

Maybe it did happen to me, maybe i handled it like a responsible adult should, maybe i didn't drag my kids into it becuase they have no place in my personal life.  Everything we do we are responsible for, everyting that happens to us in this world we play a part in it happening to us - if you want to believe otherwise that's your right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

...That probably will differ with any person that finds themselves in that situation and my way is not anyone elses BUT mine ~
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

Aqua,
  i have not read but a few post on this thread and i haven't even looked at the original post to see what this is even about...
 
However, the words here in your response are resounding with me. i will not post my personal experiences here in regards to childhood, loveless marriage or divorce but i did want to say i think you are SPOT ON with your views here and i applaude them...

UMs should always be protected and nurtured, they shouldn't be exposed to fighting and violence. Dysfunctioal people do this to kids, that's not limited to cheaters - non cheaters can be just as dysfunctional.  Try growing up in an alcoholic family - i'd take a cheating dad over an alcoholic dad any day of the week.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

You are being judgemental. You are saying that those who are shattered by a betrayal are weak. You have been circling around the idea that it really doesn't matter about a cheating spouse - after the other one had to be the cause. I have stated over and over that both spouses have equal fault. You refuse to assign any blame for the relationship issue on the cheater as though they are free from guilt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

You are being judgemental. You are saying that those who are shattered by a betrayal are weak. You have been circling around the idea that it really doesn't matter about a cheating spouse - after the other one had to be the cause. I have stated over and over that both spouses have equal fault. You refuse to assign any blame for the relationship issue on the cheater as though they are free from guilt.

Absolutely ludicrous - go back and re read.  i'll not repeat myself anymore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Since when is not being perfect an excuse for inflicting non-consentual emotional pain on an entire family?

What about the non consentual pain inflicted on a spouse by someone who vows to "honor, cherish, love... etc.... for better or worse.. richer and poorer...etc" and then bails on them physically or emotionally??  i always hate the way the cheater is strung up yet the poor "abused" spouse is left with a halo on their heads for enduring such "abuse".  Life is complicated - decisions are made - some outcomes can't be predicted - people get hurt, yeah it all sucks... but the fault doesn't lie ONLY with the cheater.  Who is anyone to judge anyway?  If you expect someone to live up to their word - be damned ready to live up to yours as well!

Two wrongs still, amazingly, don't make a right. String them both up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

i did not see where Aqua was advocating violence in front of children and ofcourse i would agree that UMs should be nurtured and protected but depending on their age, they should always be given as much truth as they can process.
 
i did grow up in an alcoholic family and prayed for my parents to divorce so the fighting would stop, i comforted all my younger sibling from the screams and shouting that took place as we huddled on steps waiting for something worse, i know what it is like to beg for that person to stop drinking, to be hugged and slapped within seconds of either, to be verbally beaten and not a word of it remembered by that person the next day... i could go on but i have said more than i intended.
 
velvetears - it is about truth and will always be about truth...when we feel we have to lie - THAT is our indicator that what we are doing may not serve a higher purpose~

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

i did not see where Aqua was advocating violence in front of children and ofcourse i would agree that UMs should be nurtured and protected but depending on their age, they should always be given as much truth as they can process.
 
i did grow up in an alcoholic family and prayed for my parents to divorce so the fighting would stop, i comforted all my younger sibling from the screams and shouting that took place as we huddled on steps waiting for something worse, i know what it is like to beg for that person to stop drinking, to be hugged and slapped within seconds of either, to be verbally beaten and not a word of it remembered by that person the next day... i could go on but i have said more than i intended.
 
velvetears - it is about truth and will always be about truth...when we feel we have to lie - THAT is our indicator that what we are doing may not serve a higher purpose~

Quite the contrary, Aqua's statements were for advocating UMs NOT grow up around any kind of fighting, arguing, etc... We were't debating that at all - it's hard to come into the middle of a thread and understand everything thats being said. 

You're insight into life growing up in an alcoholic home supports my view that it's the responsibility of the adult to protect the child and their actions will determines that childs environment.  Adults need to be in control of themselves around children - whether alcohol, cheating, or whatever, etc makes them loose control, i don't care what it is, you don't have to expose your UMs to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


" "Boo hoo I got cheated it on" - suck it up and deal."

Ring a bell?

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


" "Boo hoo I got cheated it on" - suck it up and deal."

Ring a bell?

If you are going to quote me please do it correctly or you will take what i say out of context - play fair now - this is what i said:

OK so when the "cheated on spouse" finds out its OK to completely break down and make a mess of everyones lives around them, including their kids, and hold no responsibility for their actions because poor them - they were cheated on - boo hoo - grow up and deal with it like an adult, you don't have to drag kids into your shit - sorry not buying it. It isn't inevitable, it is very much preventable - to those that do that i would say a big - get a grip and grow up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

My points, which you've misconstrued again, were that children should not grow up around unnecessary fighting.

Huh? Did you read what i wrote to dawn"Quite the contrary, Aqua's statements were for advocating UMs NOT grow up around any kind of fighting, arguing, etc"

Cheating does not have to occur in a relationship....  Never said it did.   regardless of whatever happened that person made the choice to cheat.  By that logic you can say - no matter what happened so and so killed Mr.X, they made the choice to kill him, no need for judges, jury or trial - murder is murder - cut and dried, black and white - interesting society we'd all be walking on tightropes, dying of ulcers hoping we never got into trouble!

In so doing, they made the both (much like picking up a bottle of rum) to further problems already in the house. That is a selfish act regardless of the acts committed by both spouses that led up to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca

I'd just like to point out that not all marriages that have ended up in divorce got there by means of 'fighting, yelling and arguing'.  Sometimes there's indifference and silence--which can be just as damaging as repeated screaming matches.

I felt that was something that was being overlooked, and thought I might mention it since 'fighting matches' has been repeatedly used as an example.