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RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/24/2007 8:14:52 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Hey, I'd love to go. After all, life is an adventure, and we'll never get out of it alive no matter how careful we are.

Erich Marie Remarque pointed out that it is always the wrong people who fight the wars. Wars are not fought by the people who sit in ivory towers and government buildings far from the combat zone. They are fought by young people at the threshholds of their adult life who are sent by people too old to fight into hell. Then they have to live with the horror of combat for the rest of their lives, assuming they have a rest of a life to spend with the horror of having been in combat.

I imagine it must be very easy for you to say that we should be at war with Iraq, since you will never have to put your life and your safety on the line for your convictions. If you honestly believe your warlike statements, you could at least volunteer for the job of informing the families of the soldiers who died in Iraq about their loved ones, or do something to help the grievously wounded who come home.

Sinergy

p.s. if you dont know who Erich Marie Remarque is, go read "All Quiet On The Western Front." No movie remake of that really captures the essential tragedy of that book.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 81

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/24/2007 8:46:04 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Except I've never said that, and we're not at war with Iraq, regardless how you spin it. We've never been at war with Iraq. We've liberated the Iraqi people, and we are now guarding them from those who try to do them harm... why you seem to need to think that American soldiers are in a role they're not in is beyond me. Who is getting killed in Iraq, and who is doing the killing - why can't you admit the simple, basic truth to yourself. Extremists are killing civillians there. Why can't you face that fact?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I imagine it must be very easy for you to say that we should be at war with Iraq,

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 82

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/24/2007 8:50:18 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

<never mind>

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 83

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/24/2007 8:51:45 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

We've liberated the Iraqi people, and we are now guarding them from those who try to do them harm

We can't even guard the Iraqi PM and the UN Chief from a mortar attack.

It's never been our job to Liberate ANYONE whom we didn't enslave. Do *YOU* see the authority to Liberate Others anywhere in the Constitution or Amendments?

Nope.

And that's why 500,000 Iraqis have died since you "Liberated" them, and are guarding them.

I'm sure they appreciate a corps of rapists and murders looking out for their interests.

If they deserved Freedom and Liberty, they should have had their own fucking revolution. That's why they're standing on the sidelines. They don't fucking CARE what the US wants for them.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 84

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/24/2007 8:53:56 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

I'm just going to ignore you, farglebargle. You seem to just want attention or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm sure they appreciate a corps of rapists and murders looking out for their interests.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 85

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/24/2007 8:57:30 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Except I've never said that, and we're not at war with Iraq, regardless how you spin it. We've never been at war with Iraq. We've liberated the Iraqi people, and we are now guarding them from those who try to do them harm... why you seem to need to think that American soldiers are in a role they're not in is beyond me. Who is getting killed in Iraq, and who is doing the killing - why can't you admit the simple, basic truth to yourself. Extremists are killing civillians there. Why can't you face that fact?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I imagine it must be very easy for you to say that we should be at war with Iraq,

Fine. I will agree with you that the United States is not at war with Iraq. I suppose this is in the same sense that you could state that China is not at war with Tibet, or Germany was not at war with France in 1942, or Japan was not at war with Vietnam in 1943, or Rome was not at war with Gaul in 112, Troy was not at war with Persia, or...

I can go on if you like. History is written by the victors.

The United States invaded another country, without bothering to obtain any sort of legitimacy with any other country on the planet, or even with a majority of it's own populace. Before you scream that we elected the War and Killing Party to control Congress and the White House, I would like to retort that all sorts of election irregularities exist which Congress refused to examine when the Republicans controlled committee selection.

Simple, basic truths almost never are simple or basic or even truthful.

Sinergy

p.s. Please clarify why you have not volunteered to assist with the medical recovery of returning soldiers or the notification of family members of the deceased.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 86

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/24/2007 8:59:30 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

REALITY: Spc. James Barker, Pfc. Jesse Spielman, Sgt. Paul Cortez, Pfc. Bryan Howard and, Steven D. Green, gang-raped and murdered a 14-year-old girl.

To facilitate their rape and murder they additionally murdered a FIVE YEAR OLD GIRL, and her parents.

NONE have been hanged for their crimes.

You're telling me that any military organization that has FIVE PEOPLE, including a Sergeant plan and carry out the rape and murder of children is has ANY honor or is worthy of ANY respect?

They HAD the chance to "Take Care Of Their Own Problem", as shoot the sick animal dead as soon as he suggested this perverted crime. But they CHOSE to participate instead.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 87

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 4:18:57 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

So we have 25 million living veterans, 1.4 million active duty, and 1.2 million reserves. Total 27.6 million plus thier families( lets ridiculously lowball it and say one familly member apiece). Which gives us 55.2 million people were eligible to sign the Redress petition which Real refers to. And Hundreds signed it. Not even thousands. Hundreds.... out of 55.2 million. And how many got arested under 134-12 for it?

Excellent point!

Or, has the press just failed to report the thousands of service members, from Generals on down, who have been court martialed for freely speaking their opinions? Wow, how could the reporters miss that one?

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 88

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 5:10:08 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Of course not thy prefer the vietnam defeatist policy.

This is a bit idiotic, Sternhand4.

Until the Tet Offensive, very few in the United States for the most part had even heard of Vietnam or that we even had people there.

This happened 18 or so years after the French threw up their hands and left the pacification of Vietnam to the United States. Some call the French "cheese-eating surrender monkeys,"
They did surrender at Dien Bien Phu in 54

while others call the French "People who can see their way through a brick wall in time, and bring their soldiers home from an unwinnable quagmire."
Defeat always makes you go home
What you call the "defeatist Vietnam policy" is better described as the "what the fuck have you cretins we keep electing President been doing for 18 years in Indochina? policy" or the "After 18 years, it seems that you morons who got elected to high office would realize your approach is not working and try a new one" policy.

Sinergy

Really did they sleep through the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution in 1964?
Tet was 4 years later in 1968 ( of course I'm guessing they noticed peolple there befor that.. I know my dad did he was there in 64. ) But Im only 40, so what was done I know from second hand info and research.

Well, i was just 8 years old at the time but i clearly remember the televised Goldwater-Johnson debates in '64 and the TV ads for and against our involvement in Vietnam, as well as the images from Vietnam on the evening news almost nightly from at least '67 on. So, people were actually aware of Vietnam before Tet '68.

As far as "winning" in Vietnam goes, our troops never lost a major battle there, even up to the point when they were pulled-out in '75 by the gutless wonders in Washington who caved to political pressure. Of the dozens of books i have read that were written by Vietnam War combat veterans and of the countless Sergeants i served with, who had served in Vietnam (including my first husband/Master), not one of them ever had anything but the highest of praise for the fighting ability of our forces and only ever complained about the politicians turning the war into a platform for them to win votes back home.

War is bloody Hell! No doubt about it. But, where would this country or the European Countries or any of the "Free World" countries be had there not been wars? It's a fact of life that to become and to remain a sovereign and free nation, war is going to be necessary and the better we prepare ourselves to deal with that fact, the better off we will be.

Instead of arguing over whether we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan or Somalia (again) or any of the other dozens of places our troops are serving, why don't we put the time and energy (and $) into getting our Veteran's Health care system up to par to provide them with the care they require, have earned and deserve.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David (Vietnam Vet '70 - '72)

(in reply to Sternhand4)

Post #: 89

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 5:35:06 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Hey, I'd love to go. After all, life is an adventure, and we'll never get out of it alive no matter how careful we are.

Erich Marie Remarque pointed out that it is always the wrong people who fight the wars. Wars are not fought by the people who sit in ivory towers and government buildings far from the combat zone. They are fought by young people at the threshholds of their adult life who are sent by people too old to fight into hell. Then they have to live with the horror of combat for the rest of their lives, assuming they have a rest of a life to spend with the horror of having been in combat.

I imagine it must be very easy for you to say that we should be at war with Iraq, since you will never have to put your life and your safety on the line for your convictions. If you honestly believe your warlike statements, you could at least volunteer for the job of informing the families of the soldiers who died in Iraq about their loved ones, or do something to help the grievously wounded who come home.

Sinergy

p.s. if you dont know who Erich Marie Remarque is, go read "All Quiet On The Western Front." No movie remake of that really captures the essential tragedy of that book.

The "wrong people who fight the wars" are all volunteer members of our military. No one has been forced to enlist. This country doesn't have (as many others do) a requirement for military service. Men and women go to a recruiter and ask to enlist, knowing full well that the purpose and mission of the military is to be prepared for and, when necessary, go into battle. They sign-up knowing that being sent to a combat zone during their enlistment is a real possibility.

i enlisted, at age 18, fresh out of high school and not, (as John Kerry has asserted most do) because i was poor, uneducated or a minority race. i was from middle-class, Santa Clara County, CA, well educated and white. i joined when Vietnam was still an ongoing conflict, even though, at the time, very few females were sent over unless they were nurses. Still, it wasn't a popular time to be asking to enlist in the Army. i served for nearly 12 years. A lot of that time was spent near the East German border, while the Cold War was still very hot, and the very real possibility that i might get my ass blown to smithereens while i worked in my radio-teletype rig 3 km from the "enemy" was always in the back of my mind, which is one reason why i waited to become a mom until after i ended my service.

So, would i be considered one of the "wrong people who fight the wars" or would i be one of the right ones?

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

Edited to add: i wanted to go back into the Army (or at least the Reserves) but they won't take me because of my leg having been amputated due to a drunk driver crashing his car into me and my little girl, while we were on our bicycle in her day care center parking lot at 9:00 a.m. on a Monday in October in suburban MD. Isn't that a bunch of shit? i spent a dozen years in the Army and never got more than a hairline fracture in my big toe. Then, i become a "PTA mom" in suburbia and get my leg amputated because some fool got drunk and went driving. i would much rather have had my leg blown-off in Iraq or Afghanistan, while serving my country, than have it chopped-off from a drunk crashing into me on U.S. soil.

Where is all the outrage and protests against drunk drivers in this country killing and maiming 10's of thousands of innocent people every year?

Alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes kill someone every 31 minutes and nonfatally injure someone every two minutes (NHTSA 2006).

During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S. died in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes, representing 39% of all traffic-related deaths (NHTSA 2006).

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 3/25/2007 5:49:25 AM >

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 90

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 6:17:38 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

The "wrong people who fight the wars" are all volunteer members of our military.

I am not disputing what you wrote, slavegirljoy. My upset is with the person in charge of our military using the United States all-volunteer military in a war of aggression to maximize Halliburton, et al, profits. Monkeyboy was handed a weapon (being the US military) when he was elected President. I dont think he is using this weapon in a responsible manner.

If you think of the all volunteer military staffed by patriotic people like yourself as a weapon, and Monkeyboy as the one wielding the weapon, Remarque's comment is that people like you are the wrong people to be fighting. He simply pointed out that it would be better to take all the heads of state who want a war and let them fight it out.

Put another way, if you look at Monkeyboy as a Dominant, and the US military as a submissive, do you believe he is caring for his submissive in a responsible way?

Regards,

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 91

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 6:23:15 AM

Transdromeda

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

This report matches some of what the person I know that is actually over there, has to say.

As Anthony Swofford pointed out in Jarhead, a soldier on active duty has signed a contract and is not at liberty to speak freely. It is pointed out to said soldier that failure to speak the line provided to them by their military commanders is technically an act of treason. This is a crime under the UCMJ that is punishable by death.

Go ahead and believe what an embedded reporter and an active duty soldier say about the war.

Sinergy

of course those who want to tell us we cant believe the reporter or the soldier because they only talk about good things over there are the same ones who tell us we have to believe that only bad things are happening there. the ones who fixate on the fact that people die in a combat zone always harping on the numbers who die- but not if theres a day where noone died! not to mention every commander in history would like to have a .5% casualty rate in a war over four years in a combat zone!!! more people die in car accidents in a year then soldiers in a warzone. people who tell us more troops wont help that we cant win wouldnt have won world war i , world war ii, the civil war or the revolutionary war or hundreds of other wars if they were in charge! we wouldnt have even gotten to Dday after the devastating Italian Penninsula campaign in world war II.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 92

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 6:32:27 AM

Transdromeda

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

We've liberated the Iraqi people, and we are now guarding them from those who try to do them harm

We can't even guard the Iraqi PM and the UN Chief from a mortar attack.

It's never been our job to Liberate ANYONE whom we didn't enslave. Do *YOU* see the authority to Liberate Others anywhere in the Constitution or Amendments?

Nope.

And that's why 500,000 Iraqis have died since you "Liberated" them, and are guarding them.

I'm sure they appreciate a corps of rapists and murders looking out for their interests.

If they deserved Freedom and Liberty, they should have had their own fucking revolution. That's why they're standing on the sidelines. They don't fucking CARE what the US wants for them.

and Japan should have had their own revolution; and
Germany; and the eastern european countries wouldnt have had a succesful revolution if it werent for the support of america and her allies either. you wouldnt accuse a soldier of being rapists and murderers if you knew any of them. that many and more iraquis died before America even entereed the picture. Id much rather be an iraqi living free in the present dangerous environment than be living under saddam and his sons when at any time they can decide to gas you rape your wife execute the husband and imprison your kids!!!! Im always hearing liberals spout "for the children" for every argument except they dont care about imprisoned iraqi children! There are cries to do something in Darfur but the only thing that will help there as in other tyrant controlled areas is believe it or not military force_ trying to feed the people or donate supplys doesnt work when those supplies are controlled by the tyrants. God forbid if we actually did try to do anything in Darfur or else where. any action anyplace just gets portrayed by liberals as another vietnam.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 93

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 6:37:47 AM

Transdromeda

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

REALITY: Spc. James Barker, Pfc. Jesse Spielman, Sgt. Paul Cortez, Pfc. Bryan Howard and, Steven D. Green, gang-raped and murdered a 14-year-old girl.

To facilitate their rape and murder they additionally murdered a FIVE YEAR OLD GIRL, and her parents.

NONE have been hanged for their crimes.

You're telling me that any military organization that has FIVE PEOPLE, including a Sergeant plan and carry out the rape and murder of children is has ANY honor or is worthy of ANY respect?

They HAD the chance to "Take Care Of Their Own Problem", as shoot the sick animal dead as soon as he suggested this perverted crime. But they CHOSE to participate instead.

i guess then if we find five bad polic officers we should disband the police or find five teachers who are child abusers we should ban school!!!

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 94

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 6:40:17 AM

Transdromeda

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Except I've never said that, and we're not at war with Iraq, regardless how you spin it. We've never been at war with Iraq. We've liberated the Iraqi people, and we are now guarding them from those who try to do them harm... why you seem to need to think that American soldiers are in a role they're not in is beyond me. Who is getting killed in Iraq, and who is doing the killing - why can't you admit the simple, basic truth to yourself. Extremists are killing civillians there. Why can't you face that fact?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I imagine it must be very easy for you to say that we should be at war with Iraq,

Fine. I will agree with you that the United States is not at war with Iraq. I suppose this is in the same sense that you could state that China is not at war with Tibet, or Germany was not at war with France in 1942, or Japan was not at war with Vietnam in 1943, or Rome was not at war with Gaul in 112, Troy was not at war with Persia, or...

I can go on if you like. History is written by the victors.

The United States invaded another country, without bothering to obtain any sort of legitimacy with any other country on the planet, or even with a majority of it's own populace. Before you scream that we elected the War and Killing Party to control Congress and the White House, I would like to retort that all sorts of election irregularities exist which Congress refused to examine when the Republicans controlled committee selection.

Simple, basic truths almost never are simple or basic or even truthful.

Sinergy

p.s. Please clarify why you have not volunteered to assist with the medical recovery of returning soldiers or the notification of family members of the deceased.

why is it that the rest of the world is good and the only evil that exists is in the us government and military according to the left

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 95

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 6:52:07 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Without bothering to read thru this whole thread because I am sure it's going to be the same old stuff. I am going to toss in my slightly educated point of view.

In my personal life I am surrounded by military personel. In my immediate family 3 of which have all served over 15 years, one just retired with 22 years after returning from his last tour in Iraq. All three have been involved in both Iraq issues. On this same computer I have hundreds of photographs and on several CD's hundreds more taken all over Iraq by the recently retired person. Many of these photos I refuse to look at because of the nature of them. I do not find bloody body parts entertaining. My favourite photos are the ones taken in Tikrit the day Suddam was captured, up close and personal. Photo's no journalist took or has seen.

My point is that when these three people sit in a room discussing their experiences each one has a very different perspective. Throw in the extended family and many friends and aquaintances and you will get such a difference you would think they were describing completely different wars. In a way they are. If you are talking to a jerk of a Colonel I know, he spent most of his time in the green zone in Bagdad. An NCO will tell you about many patrols he led into dangerous areas, watching suicide bombers blow themselves and innocent Iraqy citizens up right in front of his eyes. Another will talk of flying overhead dropping bombs. Yet another cannot talk about any of his experiences at all.

No one person that has spent anytime in Iraq will have the same experience as another. As I said, many of them were vastly different. There are just too many variables that affect it. Even my uncle that was special forces in Vietnam acknowledges that for him to say he knows, it would be wrong. Too many differences in people, place and time. For any of us here, that have never been there, to assume we have a clue.....it is ignorant and presumptous of us. It is, and has been, a part of my daily personal life and I still cannot imagine the reality.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Sternhand4)

Post #: 96

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 6:58:33 AM

Transdromeda

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

We have been studying this some, and you have to factor in three pretty important points:

1. Iran has virtually no modern air defense system, and lacks the logistical means to maneuver their few military formation. Iraq posed a much greater challenge in both these areas.

2. While the Army has suffered a good bit of wear and tear in Iraq, the Air Force and Naval air components have cleaned up nicely in the past two years. The force multiplier, is actually much stronger than it was in 2002.

3. You would have to imagine that if war with Iran came (perish the thought), there are powerful and fresh formations available in Germany, that would undoubtedly be used.

I do agree with you, that Israel wouldn't join in. They were not ready for their last war, much less one as far away as Iran. I don't think we would want them there anyway ... but do think there is a good chance that Saudi Arabia might tag along, because of the potential for profit.

Then again, all this war talk was silly before and is just as silly now. We could have spent one-hundreth the money, bought all these people off, and been Byzantine about sewing discontent between them as oil rivals.

to say we could have bought them all off is to believe that religiious belief plays no part in the terrorists motivation. Buying off never seeems to work either look at oil for food! the biggest reason isreal didnt get involved in this war and wouldnt in iran is they would have to go thruough Jordan which is problematical even with Jordans permission and maybe making the war much more regional.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 97

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 7:04:49 AM

Transdromeda

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ok Caitlyn, if you believe that we are good at conducting war, tell me why we have seemingly lost two out of three of the last wars we have fought? It is not military capability that we lack, it is the fact that people who do not want to cooperate with occupation tend to be hard to occupy. Iraq had over a decade of sanctions, they had problems before we even invaded. Now you may think that Iran would be a breeze to beat, we cannot claim victory in either Afghanistan or Iraq... and you think we would be successful against Iran? I do not possibly see how without at least a draft.

we havnt lost this war despite the lefts assertions that we have if we do it wil be like vietnam- we will lose because the American people refuse to let us win!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 98

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 7:11:40 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

The "wrong people who fight the wars" are all volunteer members of our military.

I am not disputing what you wrote, slavegirljoy. My upset is with the person in charge of our military using the United States all-volunteer military in a war of aggression to maximize Halliburton, et al, profits. Monkeyboy was handed a weapon (being the US military) when he was elected President. I dont think he is using this weapon in a responsible manner.

If you think of the all volunteer military staffed by patriotic people like yourself as a weapon, and Monkeyboy as the one wielding the weapon, Remarque's comment is that people like you are the wrong people to be fighting. He simply pointed out that it would be better to take all the heads of state who want a war and let them fight it out.

Put another way, if you look at Monkeyboy as a Dominant, and the US military as a submissive, do you believe he is caring for his submissive in a responsible way?

Regards,

Sinergy

Honestly, the decision to use of our military in any conflict we have engaged in has always been questioned. Soldiers do not decide when or where to go to war, nor should they. Soldiers go to fight, when their nation calls on them to do so and they don't ask "why?" or "is this right?". They trust in their country's leadership to make those decisions and they just do as they're told, just as i, as a submissive trust in my Dominant to make the decisions on how He will use me and i do as i'm told. That's our system and, unless and until, the system is changed, that's how it works. As to how this particular "Dom" has used his "sub", history is usually the final evaluator on that issue. Not that people shouldn't question the decisions of their elected leaders and vote them out when they aren't pleased with them, but it needs to be done in a way that is not at the expense of our soldier's safety and fighting ability.

`Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
~From The Charge of the Light Brigade
by Alfred Lord Tennyson

As for the war profiteering that some companies engage in, that is nothing new. In fact, the great economic success that the country has enjoyed for most of the past 60 years was built on the war profiteers of WWII. Our economy would not be what it is, without the "Military-Industrial Complex" that grew major corporations out of a need to supply our "war machine". Much, if not most, of the U.S. workforce has benefited, in some way, from the companies that grew during WWII by supplying our country's war needs, companies that are household names today, not just Halliburton, which i never heard of until this war. It's nothing new that, right or wrong, wars create business opportunities, which create jobs, which fuel our economy.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 99

RE: A different voice on Iraq - 3/25/2007 7:13:21 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Transdromeda

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ok Caitlyn, if you believe that we are good at conducting war, tell me why we have seemingly lost two out of three of the last wars we have fought? It is not military capability that we lack, it is the fact that people who do not want to cooperate with occupation tend to be hard to occupy. Iraq had over a decade of sanctions, they had problems before we even invaded. Now you may think that Iran would be a breeze to beat, we cannot claim victory in either Afghanistan or Iraq... and you think we would be successful against Iran? I do not possibly see how without at least a draft.

we havnt lost this war despite the lefts assertions that we have if we do it wil be like vietnam- we will lose because the American people refuse to let us win!

Spoken like a truely clueless person. From this I deduce that you A.) have not actually BEEN in the middle east and B.) do not know the history of the middle east

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Transdromeda)

Post #: 100

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