RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann)

RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:17:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 So whats your point? Maybe you should try re-reading my post for I think I covered that aspesct. Not really. You said that if you saw a sub behaving in a mannor you deem disrepectful (leaving out the chance that it amuses them), then you would go talk to them. If they said they enjoyed it, then you would go talk to the person running the group and question if you want to belong to it. Valyraen finds it amusing when I sass him and what may look disrespectful to you is simply playful banter to us. I know of others that enjoy this as well, and I'm pretty sure that if you pulled them aside to point out the "error" of their ways they'd give you a pretty rude salute. That or just tell you "Thanks but your advice isn't wanted or needed, kindly butt out." It would depend on the particular dominant in question.[:)]

missturbation -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:25:03 AM)
Valyraen finds it amusing when I sass him and what may look disrespectful to you is simply playful banter to us. Not sure you'll agree Aqua but my sassyness has its time and place. There are certain times i would not banter with my Sir. The skill is in knowing when and when not to banter. That of course is a dynamic set up between the people in the relationship.

LaTigresse -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:28:24 AM)
This pretty much covers my response to that particular post. To reply to the general subject. In my home, if someone, anyone, is disruptive and causing discomfort to other guests or myself, they are asked/escorted out the door. More than likely not invited again. In a public venue or on someone's elses property, it is none of my business. Generally I would be amused. I am an avid people watcher, if someone feels the need to act out in a manner that makes them the centre of attention, I enjoy watching. Both the person and others reactions to them. Studying human behaviour is never boring and can be quite educational. It can also make for great conversation at a later date.

AquaticSub -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:31:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Valyraen finds it amusing when I sass him and what may look disrespectful to you is simply playful banter to us. Not sure you'll agree Aqua but my sassyness has its time and place. There are certain times i would not banter with my Sir. The skill is in knowing when and when not to banter. That of course is a dynamic set up between the people in the relationship. The time and place for my sass is whenever and wherever Valyraen wishes it and whenever and wherever I believe he will enjoy it. If I chose the wrong time and he did not enjoy it, then he would correct me and I would settle down. If someone at a play party or munch is troubled by that, then that is their own problem and not mine. I don't like seeing needleplay - it creeps me out and turns my stomach. I don't pull them aside and give them a short lecture on what they are doing wrong (unless they look like they are doing some dangerous of course!).

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:32:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Not sure you'll agree Aqua but my sassyness has its time and place. There are certain times i would not banter with my Sir. The skill is in knowing when and when not to banter. That of course is a dynamic set up between the people in the relationship. I agree with you misst. I'd also offer up that if bantering, sassiness, etc is a welcome part of one's relationship, it doesn't always have to be done in an overt way that would be apparent or possibly disruptive to others (not saying you do this Aqua, just generally speaking). Personally, I love the subtle interactions between people in a relationship when they are around others or in a public setting. The whispers, the looks, etc.... very hot.

dawntreader -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:36:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Passion357 How would one handle a situation of a slave or submissive repeatedly challenging the authority of his/her Owner in a group setting with other M/s couples around? I understand that the Owner of said slave is the only one that should correct them, however as an unwilling observer of the action how would one handle the situation? ~Passion~ It would not be my place to do anything. Ofcourse, if this were a situation in which i was hostess, i would bring my concerns to the attention of my D/M and let him handle it as he deemed appropriate to the D/M of the s/s with regards to the other guests... However, as i do not ascribe to this behavior not do i find it appropriate for the D/s or M/s dynamic, i would not focus my attention on it... This reminds me of another thread on "brat" behavior from awhile back - to each their own kink...i am just in a place in my life where my tolerance for the immature and disobedient is low and my respect and admiration high for those with a beautiful and mature relationship. That is the major draw for me to this lifestyle - the beauty in the yin and yang between Dominance and submission. i do not like seeing it abused and manipulated regardless of whether it works for the couple. Just as i don't like seeing misbehaving and ill-mannered children whose parent's style of parenting lacks authority and discipline. If it was disturbing enough and i had the choice to leave, i would~

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:36:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 So whats your point? Maybe you should try re-reading my post for I think I covered that aspesct. Not really. You said that if you saw a sub behaving in a mannor you deem disrepectful (leaving out the chance that it amuses them), then you would go talk to them. If they said they enjoyed it, then you would go talk to the person running the group and question if you want to belong to it. Valyraen finds it amusing when I sass him and what may look disrespectful to you is simply playful banter to us. I know of others that enjoy this as well, and I'm pretty sure that if you pulled them aside to point out the "error" of their ways they'd give you a pretty rude salute. That or just tell you "Thanks but your advice isn't wanted or needed, kindly butt out." It would depend on the particular dominant in question.[:)] Ah, but you see, you did not truely read my post for what was written and just for what you could make insulting from it. I said I would talk to the master in question and see if HE found that he enjoyed it or not. I didn't say I would point it out as being an error in what I felt how his dynamic to be. Don't make my opinion personal since it really wasn't.

missturbation -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:37:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Valyraen finds it amusing when I sass him and what may look disrespectful to you is simply playful banter to us. Not sure you'll agree Aqua but my sassyness has its time and place. There are certain times i would not banter with my Sir. The skill is in knowing when and when not to banter. That of course is a dynamic set up between the people in the relationship. The time and place for my sass is whenever and wherever Valyraen wishes it and whenever and wherever I believe he will enjoy it. If I chose the wrong time and he did not enjoy it, then he would correct me and I would settle down. If someone at a play party or munch is troubled by that, then that is their own problem and not mine. I don't like seeing needleplay - it creeps me out and turns my stomach. I don't pull them aside and give them a short lecture on what they are doing wrong (unless they look like they are doing some dangerous of course!). I wasn't attacking you Aqua - sorry. Maybe i didnt word it right. I meant that in each relationship we have a time and a place for everything and that it is between the people in the relationship to decide when that is - noone else. I was also trying to say that viewing someone being sassy does not mean they are like that all the time and in way a bad sub / slave for it.

dawntreader -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:39:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse In a public venue or on someone's elses property, it is none of my business. Generally I would be amused. I am an avid people watcher, if someone feels the need to act out in a manner that makes them the centre of attention, I enjoy watching. Both the person and others reactions to them. Studying human behaviour is never boring and can be quite educational. It can also make for great conversation at a later date. i am not always serious and i am definitely an avid people watcher myself so i agree with you on this, LaTigresse - it could be most amusing to watch and make for interesting conversation later :-)

missturbation -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:39:59 AM)
I said I would talk to the master in question and see if HE found that he enjoyed it or not. My response to that would be 'is it any of your business'? Who are you to question others relationships when you dont know the dynamics? I personally think that is just rude.

Stephann -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:42:45 AM)
Perhaps I read something different in to the post than others did. When I read 'repeatedly challenging' their authority, I wasn't thinking of a child begging daddy for a sucker. I was thinking of a repeated, harsh disagreement, much like watching a couple quarrell. If it's my party, I would ask them quietly, and politely to take it to another room. If I was a bystander, I would see if I could engage one of them in conversation to either split them (thus preventing more disagreements) or attempt to start an activity that might divert their attention from their bickering. If their behavior became such that it was clearly disgusting other people and could threaten to end the party (shouting for example) I would probably have been more aggressive in my intervention. The question isn't if the slave/submissive is obeying. It's a question of how much of a scene they are making. The question of authority derives from responsibility; I'm not responsible for making a couple happy. I do feel responsible for preventing assault. Stephan

AquaticSub -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:42:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 Ah, but you see, you did not truely read my post for what was written and just for what you could make insulting from it. I said I would talk to the master in question and see if HE found that he enjoyed it or not. I didn't say I would point it out as being an error in what I felt how his dynamic to be. Don't make my opinion personal since it really wasn't. I realize that. And your opinion isn't personal. But I do think it's arrogant to go "Oh this group lets those types in?" and then consider leaving. Most people won't agree with your style of BDSM after all and you will have to learn to play nicely and tolerate others.

AquaticSub -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:43:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I wasn't attacking you Aqua - sorry. Maybe i didnt word it right. I meant that in each relationship we have a time and a place for everything and that it is between the people in the relationship to decide when that is - noone else. I was also trying to say that viewing someone being sassy does not mean they are like that all the time and in way a bad sub / slave for it. nods I get it. [:)]

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:46:29 AM)
Well I do agree that "My master wants it" isn't an excuse for inappropriate behavior- it's still inappropriate behavior no matter who orders it to be done. But there are certainly ways a person can be "non traditionally submissive" without causing any social friction or notice whatsoever.

AquaticSub -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:46:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann Perhaps I read something different in to the post than others did. When I read 'repeatedly challenging' their authority, I wasn't thinking of a child begging daddy for a sucker. I was thinking of a repeated, harsh disagreement, much like watching a couple quarrell. If it's my party, I would ask them quietly, and politely to take it to another room. If I was a bystander, I would see if I could engage one of them in conversation to either split them (thus preventing more disagreements) or attempt to start an activity that might divert their attention from their bickering. If their behavior became such that it was clearly disgusting other people and could threaten to end the party (shouting for example) I would probably have been more aggressive in my intervention. The question isn't if the slave/submissive is obeying. It's a question of how much of a scene they are making. The question of authority derives from responsibility; I'm not responsible for making a couple happy. I do feel responsible for preventing assault. Stephan That does change things a bit. I don't like to make a scene or agrue in front of others. However, I would still conclude that it's none of my business unless it was happening on property I owned, in which case I would probably act you describe.

dawntreader -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:47:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I said I would talk to the master in question and see if HE found that he enjoyed it or not. My response to that would be 'is it any of your business'? Who are you to question others relationships when you dont know the dynamics? I personally think that is just rude. my 2 cents on this would be...if the s/s in question was being a disturbance or rude and making an uncomfortable situation for others, then i think another Dominant has every right to bring it to the attention to the Dominant of the s/s. Most public setting don't tolerate the rude and if nothing else - the Dominant of the unruly s/s would be aware of how her actions were affecting others and how they reflected on him...to me it comes down to poor manners on the part of the s/s in question and her D.

Stephann -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:47:55 AM)
Aquatic, I'm sure she can speak for herself, but I'll offer the thought that it isn't a question of "If those types are let in." For me, it's a question of "Do I feel comfortable here? Are these people I wish to invest my own time and effort into?" One or two people in a group don't make me uncomfortable (unless, as has happened a half dozen times, one is completely drunk, standing in my face, yelling at me to play "Father and Son" like I'm a damned Jukebox or something.) If the attitudes of a group are way off base from mine, I probably won't stick around. It doesn't mean I have nothing in common with them, or that they are bad people; I simply don't go to Bush, Communist, or Nazi political rallies. Warm regards, Stephan

LotusSong -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:48:30 AM)
Thus comes the art of making your point without overtly calling a foul. When the behavior becomes obviously unbearable, I'd stand up, bid the gathering adieu and head for the door. I guarantee there will be much muttering and questioning of this type quick and sudden departure. Let them wonder and keep your mouth shut until the said master eventually asks you why you left. It's his 'job' to muzzle his bitch...not anyone else's. When they are no longer asked to attend functions as they were.. maybe the light will come on.

missturbation -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:48:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann Perhaps I read something different in to the post than others did. When I read 'repeatedly challenging' their authority, I wasn't thinking of a child begging daddy for a sucker. I was thinking of a repeated, harsh disagreement, much like watching a couple quarrell. If it's my party, I would ask them quietly, and politely to take it to another room. If I was a bystander, I would see if I could engage one of them in conversation to either split them (thus preventing more disagreements) or attempt to start an activity that might divert their attention from their bickering. If their behavior became such that it was clearly disgusting other people and could threaten to end the party (shouting for example) I would probably have been more aggressive in my intervention. The question isn't if the slave/submissive is obeying. It's a question of how much of a scene they are making. The question of authority derives from responsibility; I'm not responsible for making a couple happy. I do feel responsible for preventing assault. Stephan In a nilla pub you wouldnt interrupt a couple arguing and tell them to take it elsewhere so why in a bdsm setting. Its still however you look at it none of your business.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) (3/27/2007 8:49:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I said I would talk to the master in question and see if HE found that he enjoyed it or not. My response to that would be 'is it any of your business'? Who are you to question others relationships when you dont know the dynamics? I personally think that is just rude. Is it any more or less rude then having me bare witness to their relationship dynamic in public? We also don't know what the protocols of the group are? Maybe it is within my right to question him/her while they're apart of this group.

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