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RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/4/2007 5:46:10 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Dog, I am not going to bother posting a link, those links ARE out there but you won't believe anything anyways so why bother.  Tell you what, tell me what you will change your mind on if I show you those transfers and then I might bother to find a link.

(in reply to Sternhand4)
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RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/4/2007 6:10:00 PM   
luckydog1


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How about if I change my mind on the Claim you made.  Are you going to use the number of google hits as credibility again?  I have no doubt that there are links out there.  Thats why I didn't ask for a link, but a "source".  We both are fully aware that a link can be found for any stupid idea( the earth is flat, blacks are from Mars, Jews sacrifice Muslim babies in Passover, ect.)..and if it doesn't exist either you or I could make one in a matter of minutes.  So You can provide a credible source or admit you can not back up your claim.  Anymore than you could your claim that Saudi Arabia has dirty bombs on all thier oil facilities, with one switch to trigger them all.

And Crappy we are all aware that under OIL FOR FOOD II program the Kurdish area was broken off  and Saddam recieved not a dime of the oil sales.  So don't try to mix the 2 and sneak it by.

Tell you what if you prove it I will start calling you by your new name, is that incentive enough for you?

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/4/2007 8:56:38 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

You are not going to convince a bush lover that there is any truth outside what they get from fox news.  They don't get that the oil-for-food scandal was a tiny drop in the bucket compared to what US oil companies got from the secret illegal oil transfers approved by both Bush and Clinton to Jordan and Turkey.  Hell most of them are too ignorant to even know about them or the fact that the involvement of US oil firms in ALL the scandals has been kept below the radar, at least in the US


I would sure like to be educated on these secret deals, have a source handy?


This is just bush...  clinton was involved up to his nads too!

As in the present UN scandal, Saddam paid for his covert cluster bombs with oil. Chalmers would move the actual black stuff and broker its sale for the CIA and Cardoen, taking a cut in the process. Since 1999, Chalmers has been doing the same thing on behalf of Italtech, owned by another crony in the old Cardoen gun-running scheme. The Texas baron must be aghast to find himself in hot water for an activity that was once blessed at the highest levels. Perhaps he neglected to cross the requisite Bushist palms with sufficient silver -- or else, as with many a Bush minion, he's just been tossed overboard as chum for the sharks when he's no longer of any use.

But let's be fair. Helping Saddam kill people with chemical gas was not the only reason why Reagan and Bush I aided their favorite dictator. They had bigger fish to fry -- using the Constitution as kindling for the feast.

In 1986, George Bush I visited the Middle East with a secret message to be passed to Saddam via Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak: "Drop more bombs on Iran's cities." How do we know this? From the sworn testimony of Howard Teicher, the National Security Council official who accompanied Bush and wrote the official "talking points" for the trip. Ostensibly, Bush urged this mass killing of civilians as a strategy to halt Iran's gains at the front. But as The New Yorker reported -- 13 years ago -- there was another layer to this covert plot.
http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/141818/


Extra! May/June 1995
Iraqgate: Confession and Cover-Up
By Robert Parry
While the O.J. Simpson trial gobbled up endless TV hours and countless news pages, a concurrent criminal trial in Miami went almost unnoticed by the national media, even though it called into question the judgment of three U.S. presidents.

President Clinton's Justice Department had put on trial Teledyne Industries, a major military contractor, and two of its mid-level employees, on charges of selling cluster-bomb parts to a Chilean arms manufacturer, Carlos Cardoen. Cardoen, in turn, allegedly shipped finished bombs to Iraq.

Defense attorneys for the Teledyne employees argued that the CIA, as part of a secret operation that has come to be known as "Iraqgate," had authorized the shipments--a claim that the Reagan/Bush administration had long denied. Since taking office in 1993, the Clinton team has continued that GOP position, stating as recently as Jan. 16 that the administration "did not find evidence that U.S. agencies or officials illegally armed Iraq."
http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/141818/

By Stephen Pizzo
November/December 1993 Issue
Bush administration officials spent their final months in office attempting to cover up a scandal--the so-called Iraq-gate affair--that could have landed them in jail. Strangely, their successors have tried desperately to complete the cover-up: in September, the Clinton Justice Department released a statement concluding that the Bush administration had done nothing improper.

Federal Judge Marvin H. Shoob, who for the past four years had presided over the criminal case, was incredulous. Such a conclusion, the judge said, was possible only "in Never-Never Land."

For those who have forgotten, the scandal centered on $5 billion in U.S.-government-guaranteed loans made to Iraq between 1985 and 1989 by the Atlanta branch of an Italian-government-owned bank, the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. The loans, backed by two executive-branch agencies--the Export-Import Bank and the Commodities Credit Corporation--were restricted by law to the purchase of U.S. agricultural
http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/1993/11/pizzo.html


President Bush declined to endorse Sen. Coleman's call for Kofi Annan's resignation.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec04/oil-for-food_12-3.html

Houston-based company Bayoil Inc., which participated in the U.N. program, was arrested in the Texas city Thursday and made an initial appearance in federal court. Chalmers and two associates are accused of paying millions to the regime of Saddam Hussein to secure oil deals, thereby diverting money from the U.N. humanitarian aid program.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/14/oilfood.indictment/


The beneficiary list (found in the archives of the Iraqi Oil Ministry and translated into English by the Middle East Media Research Institute) should be deeply embarrassing to many prominent people. In the United States, those listed include Iraqi American businessman Shaker Al-Khaffaji, who put up $400,000 to produce a film by ex-U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter, which aimed to discredit weapons inspections in Iraq. Also, British Labor MP George Galloway, a strident foe of taking action against Saddam, is listed as a recipient or co-recipient of 19.5 million barrels.
  Other recipients include: former French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua (12 million barrels); Patrick Maugein, CEO of the oil company Soco International and financial backer of French President Jacques Chirac (25 million); former French Ambassador to the United Nations Jean-Bernard Merimee (11 million); Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri (10 million); and Syrian businessman Farras Mustafa Tlass, the son of longtime Syrian Defense Minister Mustafa Tlass (6 million). Leith Shbeilat, chairman of the anti-corruption committee of the Jordanian Parliament, received 15.5 million.
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040321-101405-2593r.htm


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 4/4/2007 9:05:50 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/4/2007 9:04:31 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Sorry dog but it isn't my job to educate you.  I know I am right because I read widely from a varieity of real sources because I form my own opinions bases on the widest knowledge base I can manage. 

I mean if you truly believe that I ever suggested that the number of google hits means anything you are perhaps not even worth debating.  I enjoy debating people who can hold their own.  I realize I have to stop and wait for a few of the right wingers to catch up but I also don't like picking on helpless people.

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/4/2007 9:11:04 PM   
luckydog1


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So basically Crappy, you know if you gave a source it would be laughed at.   Because it would be a nonsense blog. 


"I know I am right because I read widely from a varieity of real sources because I form my own opinions bases on the widest knowledge base I can manage. "
ROTFLMAO   okee dokee....

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/4/2007 9:12:47 PM   
luckydog1


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Nope Real 0ne, you are confusing Bush 1 with Bush 2.  Crappy made some real specific allegations.  Nothing you posted even comes close to addresing them.

< Message edited by luckydog1 -- 4/4/2007 9:13:29 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/5/2007 6:15:21 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Nope Real 0ne, you are confusing Bush 1 with Bush 2.  Crappy made some real specific allegations.  Nothing you posted even comes close to addresing them.


oh, i didnt know what you wanted it for, i did not get that far in my reading yet


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/5/2007 9:01:39 AM   
SimplyMichael


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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30725-2005Feb16.html

http://vitw.org/archives/674

http://slate.msn.com/id/2111195/

I wouldn't use newsmax normally but it isn't known for being left wing
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/5/17/91619.shtml

http://www.projectcensored.org/censored_2006/index.htm#6

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/5/2007 9:52:04 AM   
luckydog1


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I stand corrected Micheal, there is some evidence of what you alledge.  Also evidence that there was no crime.  I guess that is why we have trials.  Why are all the articles so old though?  I wonder why Levin did not follow through on any of this, but perhaps he will in the near future.  Bush did approve a huge shipment to Jordan right before the invasion, and the Post says that was the bulk of it.  But Saddam did not benefit from that sale, the people of Jordan did though..  He was under attack before the checks posted, and got no benefit.  So by mixing the one approved shipment that had great humanitarian use and no benefit for Saddam and the decade of small scale smugling you get a number bigger than the Oil for Food Program.  Frankly that doesn't impress me much.  Bayoil bought oil illegally that was smuggled over land going back to the early 90s( not the reposnibility of the US navy as the "common dreams" link alledges).   And the executives are currently on trial for it.

Quite a  difference between what the Project Censored comentary alledges, and what the Washington Post and Slate alledge though.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 4/5/2007 6:17:42 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It isn't the media that is causing spin, it is this administration, all it does is spin. 



Took the administration 2 days to admit that the vice president had shot a 6 foot tall man wearing orange because he thought his hunting buddy looked like a 9 inch tall quail.

I can imagine the spin doctors in the White House going "how can we tie this to Al Qaeda?" "Was Saddam Hussein involved?"  "Can we prove that it wasn't Shotgun but a missile from North Korea?"  "Can we figure out a way to blame Global Warming?"  "Was it a Democratic plot to topple the administration?"

Sinergy

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 7/28/2013 1:55:10 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

there are people that need to be held accountable, but that should be the last step in solving the situation: retrospection, assessment and accountability.


So, you want to stick with the leadership team that is so blind even their hindsight is poor? 

quote:

  News media needs to stop causing spin, one way or the other, like a news black out.


It isn't the media that is causing spin, it is this administration, all it does is spin.  WMD (Judith Miller anyone?), firing of Zinni and counter testimony, claims of Iraq having no history of ethnic violence, Iraq paying for its own reconstruction, "choas is natural, its just exuberance", Tillman died in a brave firefight, Jessica, the chick they "rescued", "there is no insurgency", "there is no civil war", and I could go on.  If the press had actually done its fucking job and been CRITICAL, we might have been saved from this fiasco and if we still did it, we might have gone in with a competent plan, we might have adjusted our plan before it was too late, and again I could go on.


This is more my standard for incompetence, four guys seems great in comparison.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 7/28/2013 2:01:31 PM   
hlen5


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Is there a reason you re-opened this thread simplyMichael?

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 7/28/2013 3:15:04 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Yes

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Invasion Strategy and Results - 7/28/2013 4:01:23 PM   
VideoAdmnOmicron


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A reminder: Please check the date of a thread and avoid commenting on anything more than 3 months old. If you would like to start a discussion based on a thread more than 3 months old, create a new post and include a link to the old thread.

This thread is now locked.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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