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RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:17:37 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dznutzx69

The fact that you would even have a basic checklist..........

you are setting yourself up to spend the rest of your life alone... on one is going to fit your checklist

wow! Really?

I had a check list. It was long. It was complicated. It was involved. I found someone who fit. In fact, I found someone with his own check list that had even more criteria than mine did. Amazingly, I fit his too.

I'm thinking that if you don't expect to find someone to fit your criteria - you won't. And if you do - you will.

Perhaphs you just need a better, more thought out list.

juliet

(in reply to dznutzx69)

Post #: 81

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:20:25 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: dznutzx69

The fact that you would even have a basic checklist..........

you are setting yourself up to spend the rest of your life alone... on one is going to fit your checklist

wow! Really?

I had a check list. It was long. It was complicated. It was involved. I found someone who fit. In fact, I found someone with his own check list that had even more criteria than mine did. Amazingly, I fit his too.

I'm thinking that if you don't expect to find someone to fit your criteria - you won't. And if you do - you will.

Perhaphs you just need a better, more thought out list.

juliet

juliet,

I think his own check list may simply list;

1. Some place to poke Mr. Winky.

Which would make him a hypocrite anyway.

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 82

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:22:10 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

juliet,

I think his own check list may simply list;

1. Some place to poke Mr. Winky.

Which would make him a hypocrite anyway.

Thanks FT, I completely forgot about the Mr Winky list. How silly of me.

juliet

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 83

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:22:12 PM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i like your posts maria, they are clever and funny, we see things differently on this issue, i wrote this post to offer you a different perspective about what to do with all the poor whiny bitches that are cut off from sex so they have to cheat...

Thanks crouchingtigress! I have taken on board what you and others have said here but wanted to ask you if we are just talking affairs or honesty in absolutely everything to do with this lifestyle?

This wasn't directed at me, but my answer is that you should be 100% honest with your spouse/partner. End of story. If you are doing ANYTHING that you purposely hide from them (whether it's drinking, smoking, spending too much money, getting your butt flogged or sticking your penis somewhere) , then what you are doing is wrong.

Im sorry but I just cant agree that total honesty is always wanted by the partner.
Sometimes being less liberal with the truth (so long as its harmless) will keep the relationship stronger.

I had a friend recently that told her husband that she wanted to do some perverse things to do with BDSM. He in turn divorced her, took her children on the grounds that she was mentally unstable, outed her at her work and warned all her friends off.
I believe he was using this as an excuse to leave her and this was just the sort of ammunition he needed. Perhaps Im wrong because she has told me that the marriage was strong and their sex life was good.
The thing is, she never did have an affair or even so much as had an online dominant. All she did was trust him enough to tell him and she got pay back big time.

< Message edited by MariaB -- 4/8/2007 12:23:28 PM >

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 84

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:24:30 PM

KaineD

Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline

Having a long and complicated checklist is definately too demanding, in my book. A basic checklist, however, is completely fine.

My basic checklist -
Must be around my age. A couple of years older than me, or from 18 to 22 years old. Preferably younger than me.
Must live near me. But even that isn't an absolute.
I must find her attractive. That's a must.
Must be a sub. I will date a girl without knowing if she is a sub or not, and continue to date her for a period of time. But I suspect I'd dump her if it turned out she had no interest in the lifestyle at all.
Mustn't be an immature girl into Britney Spears and lists Crossroads as one of her favourite movies.

Very basic stuff like that.

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 85

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:24:30 PM

MasterHyde

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

I just want to be able to explore this with out being thought of as just another guy wanting to cheat on his wife.

If you don't want to be thought of as a guy looking to cheat, then perhaps you should start by not BEING a guy who's looking to cheat. You claim to be sooo concerned about honesty between yourself and the woman you'll be cheating with. Maybe you should worry about being honest with the woman you married.

_____________________________

Master Hyde
A self-righteous, poly, dominant, possessive control freak with strong paternal tendencies and a sadistic inner child

(in reply to princeoffire)

Post #: 86

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:28:50 PM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i like your posts maria, they are clever and funny, we see things differently on this issue, i wrote this post to offer you a different perspective about what to do with all the poor whiny bitches that are cut off from sex so they have to cheat...

Thanks crouchingtigress! I have taken on board what you and others have said here but wanted to ask you if we are just talking affairs or honesty in absolutely everything to do with this lifestyle?

This wasn't directed at me, but my answer is that you should be 100% honest with your spouse/partner. End of story. If you are doing ANYTHING that you purposely hide from them (whether it's drinking, smoking, spending too much money, getting your butt flogged or sticking your penis somewhere) , then what you are doing is wrong.

Im sorry but I just cant agree that total honesty is always wanted by the partner.
Sometimes being less liberal with the truth (so long as its harmless) will keep the relationship stronger.

I had a friend recently that told her husband that she wanted to do some perverse things to do with BDSM. He in turn divorced her, took her children on the grounds that she was mentally unstable, outed her at her work and warned all her friends off.
I believe he was using this as an excuse to leave her and this was just the sort of ammunition he needed. Perhaps Im wrong because she has told me that the marriage was strong and their sex life was good.
The thing is, she never did have an affair or even so much as had an online dominant. All she did was trust him enough to tell him and she got pay back big time.

If he leaves her over something like that, I'd say he wasn't right for her to begin with and she's well to be rid of him.

I really am a person who believes in honesty, even if it hurts people in the short run. In the long run, it is ALWAYS the best policy. The people who I've retained contact with over the years in my life are often the same ones who hurt my feelings...but looking back, I was able to appreciate their honesty and integrity.

If you don't believe 100% honesty is a good thing, then I'm sure there are many people out there who agree with you and you'll never have a shortage of partners..me, I DO insist on total honesty and one lie is enough to for me to tell you to ship out...I choose to associate with people as honest as I am, both in terms of friendship and lovers. That's one of those things on my criteria list.

In the long run, I can't believe that dishonesty would ever strengthen a relationship. Obviously the situation you mentioned had deeper issues than what was going on the bedroom and this was probably just the catalyst to set things in motion...and good thing she found out now what her husband was really like so that she can move on and find someone really decent.

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 87

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:33:56 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

I believe he was using this as an excuse to leave her and this was just the sort of ammunition he needed. Perhaps I'm wrong because she has told me that the marriage was strong and their sex life was good.
The thing is, she never did have an affair or even so much as had an Online dominant. All she did was trust him enough to tell him and she got pay back big time.

wow that sucks....i can see why you would be skittish.

And you are not alone in feeling like that, Dr joy brown leading psychologist on radio and TV, not that that means anything but there it is, says lies are fine, little ones and big ones...

so when i hear a story like your freinds it gives me pause...

but then a lot might also be they way it was told to the husband....it could have be told in a way that was incendiary and looking to cause pain, in an already painful marrige...cant say.

the premise that Dr joy has is, if will only cause pain dont tell, like an affair or a proclivity like your friends...

i honestly cant say if that is right or wrong....that is why i dont get in to the "morality " lying....i just know that it sure makes it easier to like yourself...and to trust yourself... when deciet is not in your energetic field.

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 4/8/2007 12:36:41 PM >

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 88

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:45:08 PM

CdnExplorer

Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

The point though isn't that the marriage would end, but all the consequences that go with it. This is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to get at. The things we do or want to do are so far considered not socially acceptable. Is your budding curiosity about a lifestyle that you may or may not be interested in seriously worth losing your kids, career, marriage and social standing?

I think most people here aren't looking at this from the right frame of reference. I'm not in a relationship now and would never get seriously involved with someone who couldn't accept me for who I am. I think most people here are the same way. I only "came out" to myself a few months ago. If I had lived in the closet until I had a family of my own would I want to risk all of that just on the chance that bdsm might be a lifestyle I'm interested in? Hell no, I'd value my life over what might be a passing interest in kink. I certainly wouldn't risk my career and relationship with my children until I was certain that my interest was real. The ideal situation would be to explore this with his wife, and I think if he does proceed with this that he should try to broach the subject with her as soon as he knows for sure that he wants this. If she doesn't seem receptive to that then maybe it'd be time to start thinking about ending the marriage himself, which would be a lot cleaner than going to divorce court and facing accusations of being a deviant pervert. My parents had a divorce and even without anything like this it was a truly nasty process. It was rife with lies and accusations in an attempt to get custody of me and all the money.

And again to be clear I haven't taken the time to read through the profile, I'm just trying to be open minded. People like things that are black and white because they're easy. Black and white is a pretty rare thing to find though.

< Message edited by CdnExplorer -- 4/8/2007 12:46:45 PM >

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 89

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:46:20 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: princeoffire

I love her but life seems to always get in the way of us getting together let alone trying to get time to bring something new into the mix.

Lots have lambasted you about wanting to step out on your wife. So, I thought I'd re-read your post and darned if I didn't come across this little gem.

So, here's what I'd suggest.

1. Do NOT meet or pursue the chance of meeting a submissive out there until you've addressed this issue. Call your parents, her parents, a trusted friend; pay for child care, for the day, night, weekend, week, whatever, but MAKE time for your current relationship!!

2. I'd be willing to bet that what you're feeling is frustration at a lack of sex in general and when you add that to your discovery of this life and your curiousity regarding it, the temptation is understandably pretty strong, but please, for the sake of the love you say you hold for your wife, don't give in to it unless and until you've thoroughly exhausted every other avenue between you and your spouse.

3 Married life tends to be cyclical. A comment I'll never forget from my father. "We were married for 27 years and I never thought it would or could happen, but I've fallen back in love with your mother. Thank GOD I never did any of the things I thought about doing when we were at our lowest point."

There are just some things that can't be undone. There are some things that you can't just take back and have everything be ok again. Even if your wife never ever finds out about your explorations into this life, you'll know. Let me ask you, do you really want that in the back of your head for the rest of your life?

4. If you DO feel that this life is something you absolutely MUST have, Please Please, do your wife the favor of respecting her enough to be honest about your interests. She may blow up. She may never understand. On the other hand, she just might, and if you venture out into this in an underhanded way, how will you ever know?

5. Have you ever watched someone with a crush? Crushes are strong things and if not handled correctly, can destroy everything in its path and in the end, never be worth all that they destroyed. A new interest in this and a desire to explore your interests is like a crush. If you don't take care in how you handle it, this crush you have will destroy your marriage.

6. Marriage includes sex, but it is much more than sex. Please consider honoring the woman who entered into this marriage with you enough so that at the very least, before you walk through this door you're opening, you have a frank discussion regarding your sex life in general. THAT is what needs to be jump-started, not your glimpse of the grass on the other side of the fence.

If you do indeed love your wife as you say you do, at least give her - and yourself - the benefit of attempting to discover what has caused this decline in her desire for sexual intimacy. It could be a lot of things other than just a lack of interest in you. Wouldn't you rather find out what the problem is and deal with that than to destroy what you say you love?

I understand your comment about not wanting to be considered a cheater. If I'm correct, in essence, you really don't want to cheat. You simply want some satisfaction and this life is offering you the hazy promise of just that kind of satisfaction. However, there is far greater satisfaction in a life well lived with someone you love than sex with someone you don't even know.

And one further thing. I think if you spent a whole lot of time around people who live this life, you'd find a large number of us who at one time or another have wished we never found out about this lifestyle. There are a large number of us who, while we love our lives, recognize that life might have been easier if we'd never been graced with the need for dominance or submissiveness or pain or intensity or whatever you want to call it.

Here we are, and here we'll stay, but this life absolutely exacts a cost. please be sure you're ready to pay it before embarking on something that you really can't go back from.

juliet

(in reply to princeoffire)

Post #: 90

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:46:43 PM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

i honestly cant say if that is right or wrong....that is why i dont get in to the "morality " lying....i just know that it sure makes it easier to like yourself...and to trust yourself... when deciet is not in your energetic field.

Ditto. I'd rather "be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not". It just makes your life easier.

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to CdnExplorer)

Post #: 91

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 12:55:27 PM

slave2MasterD

Posts: 28
Joined: 3/12/2006
Status: offline

Wonderful advice juliet .... if he (and some others) don't read, listen and put into play the points you've raised, they should have their heads examined.

Go girl!

s2MD

_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak.
--- Jacqueline Carey

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 92

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 1:08:01 PM

KaineD

Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline

I agree with GeekyGirl to a certain extent. There is nothing wrong with having basic criteria. Everyone does. But it's definately possible to have too much criteria. And it can be very difficult to know what to say to a person to catch their attention, even if you know you meet their criteria.

I know that sending desperate messages saying "get on your knees bitch, I wanna do yadda yadda yadda to you" doesn't work, and I'm not that kind of guy anyway. I also know that your message has to be more exciting than "Hey, how are you?". I take these things into consideration when messaging girls, I pay attention to their profile, I try to ask one or two questions about their interests or something. Sometimes my messages are about a paragraph long.

99.9% of the time, I still don't get replies. So... does this mean alot of girls are big headed and don't feel they should reply to someone that doesn't match their exact expectations of a first message? Or do alot of girls simply not even read most of their messages?

Who knows?

As for the original poster. Man, you gotta stop lying to your wife.

(in reply to KaineD)

Post #: 93

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 2:05:36 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

I agree with Domiguy....It's ok to lie as long as the sub doesn't find out.

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Post #: 94

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 2:11:24 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

But what about the wife? Is it ok to lie as long as the wife doesn't find out? He was actually talking about being honest with the submissive and dishonest with the wife.

juliet

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 95

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 2:57:30 PM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

Here's my advice. Don't talk to prospective women as if you were in the middle of acting out Scene Play. Don't come off like you are the be all Dom Dude of the world. Just be yourself and carry conversation like you would with any other stranger. Let the conversation takes it own shape and direction. Ask questions and answer questions, and most of all be honest.

Don't boss the other person around like you have already Domed thier ASS.. they have not submitted to you. Just because you are talking with a sub/slave does not mean they have submited to you! They have only agreed to chat or talk with your ass. They need to get to know you and you need to get to know them first. Do no insist they call you Sir or address you in other way. You are simply having a conversation with another human being. Why the Hell would they obey a single damn command or request you are making. Submissives will only submit to somebody they trust, get to know and feel comfortable with. This is a two way street.

How would you react if a total stranger you met on the street started making demands or giving you orders? You'd probally tell them where the hell to stick it..

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 4/8/2007 2:59:50 PM >

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 96

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 3:37:53 PM

DocTSH

Posts: 109
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline

There is really no way around it. You should sit down with your wife and be honest with her about your new found interest. She may be as well! If you don't at least talk about it, you may be risking more than you are willing to lose. Now you may feel that you know her well enough, that she has no interest, however you have a lot invested in your relationship so at least give it a shot. Outside of that if you cannot be honest with her, what makes you think anyone will trust you to be honest with them?

It's a double edged sword of what you want and what you are willing to do to get it. There is one thing that will haunt you forever if you are not careful enough to be honest with yourself and your wife; Regret. Think about it...it is the one thing that will never go away from you.

_____________________________

Doc

At times like these, I think of Socrates who said, " I drank what?" -Real Genius

(in reply to princeoffire)

Post #: 97

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 3:38:24 PM

lapresence

Posts: 94
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The lifestyle is not based on trust it is based on the need for a power exchange and a good sound fucking and sucking....If you don't know that you are being deceived than you are not......In fact I'm in the process of changing my "primary" profile to state that I have recently lost my wife to "the consumption" and I am in dire need of a woman's touch as well as her cunt.

I think you would do better to claim she was consumed by laughter..... Too, too funny. People would probably actually believe that. Thanks for the laugh.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 98

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 3:50:47 PM

lapresence

Posts: 94
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slave2MasterD

As LA likes to say "seek stable partners; not a stable of partners." Good partners take TIME to find == unless, as another poster suggested, you are simply looking to get laid - in which case i would recommend AFF.com or ALT.com -- that seems to be the only purpose of those sites.

Funny you should mention AFF, that is where I met Sir and we've been together since November (when I had the guts to meet him). And it was actually his e-mail and then looking at his profile that interested me. His e-mail was indifferent (if anyone is in sales, you know how powerful this tool is) but friendly. And he just let me know that he was there constantly without trying more than casually to get us to meet. I wasn't expecting to find Mr. Right. I'd been looking for a lifestyle Mr. Right for 6 years. But I thought he was someone I could have fun with (that's why I was on AFF).

I actually had criteria that I figured was just my fantasies until I met him. There is nothing wrong with being picky. And also, I can't tell you how many times I haven't been looking (like with Sir), and someone wonderful has come along. It definately takes patience.

To dznutzx69, don't give up, it'll happen. But patience is necessary (for both Doms and subs), and probably one of the first lessons this lifestyle has to teach. And until you find Ms. Right, have fun learning and growing as a person.

Edited to add:

To the OP, I think everyone has given you great advice. I'd advocate honesty, if at all possible. And if you really, really think that isn't going to work, I would also suggest casual play with other married people. Seek a bottom, perhaps, rather than a submissive. Less emotional involvement there, and women are notorious for becoming attached, even when that wasn't the inital intent. I hope no one takes offense at the last, but it is what I have found to be true.

< Message edited by lapresence -- 4/8/2007 3:59:34 PM >

(in reply to slave2MasterD)

Post #: 99

RE: proper way to approach a sub - 4/8/2007 3:58:02 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

So what about all the guys that go to pro Mistresses. Should they tell their wifes too?

Yes.

If there isn't anything wrong with it then why not be honest? If it isn't really cheating then... again... why not be honest about it?

Maybe because she'll consider it cheating? Maybe because she'll see it as a betrayal of trust? Gosh... since she is a victim here then I think her thoughts on the subject is extremely important. So, he should ask her how she feels about it.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 100

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