RE: Adhering to hard limits

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Aswad -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 4:11:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth out of respect for MOD XI, who has specifically asked that those engaged in this thread do not discuss things deemed inappropriate by the Benefactors of CM, and therefore violations of TOS, those things have been removed from the above quote and will not be brought up again, or used as examples by this slave again. Yeah. I wish I'd seen that post before submitting mine. Although I would have hoped the point got across. quote: nephandi gave you inaccurate information. no disrespect or offense to those that do, but we are not followers of the way of Gor. Most likely, I misremembered, it was a longish time ago, and the use of third person speech does tend to be rather characteristic of the kajiri. quote: regardless of the adjectives added to the word "limit(s)", be they "hard", "relationship", "soft","personal", etc., this slave's point in clarifying the above for you still remains: ANY limit(s) with regard to the relationship we have or as Master or slave, are detailed, set and enforced by Master, according to HIS taste, preference and desires. this slave did not and does not limit Him. Yeah, I got that part. Hence, no relationship limits. And, perhaps, no personal limits (things you'd be reluctant to do for him) of a moral nature or otherwise, although this didn't come across entirely clearly.

Aswad -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 4:18:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll I suppose the thread was started because I am weary of the doormat concept of slavery and that a slave would have no limits. I feel SimplyMichael has said it very well when he stated he seduced limits, which resonated with me. I feel that easing a new slave into her life is much more viable than expecting him/her to have no limits. I quite agree. Limits that aren't absolute (terms of consent) are meant to be transcended, to use a method-neutral term. I just feel that people tend to mix up the two different kinds of limits. Not implying you did, though. "Today's hard limit is tomorrow's fetish."

hisannabelle -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 4:50:30 PM)
greetings aswad, i am not by any means using bdsm to work through psychiatrical problems (and just advocated the exact opposite on that thread in the general forum). what i am saying is that i personally don't let my psychiatrical problems get in the way of bdsm. meaning that i have done a lot of work outside of the bedroom in getting over anxiety, etc. to the point where i can do things now that i never thought i would be able to, inside of the bedroom. it's not just been a psychological healing process, though, it's also affected my relationship and my relationship has affected my healing process. i just thought i would point out that i am not by any means advocating USING bdsm itself to get past things like anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder; rather i was attempting to point out that those things can be worked through (with the help of professionals - i have/have had treatment teams for post-traumatic stress disorder and anxiety, for eating disorders, etc. who were all professionals in their field), so that certain activities within bdsm (and many other areas of life) can be explored with much of the fear of lapsing into an anxiety attack removed. annabelle.

hisannabelle -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 4:54:21 PM)
greetings damia, thanks for a really well-written response :) you definitely covered what i was asking. i wasn't meaning using bdsm to work through those issues, but rather working through them elsewhere so that it's something that you might be able to do within the context of bdsm eventually, and it seems like that is something you want to do, which i think is pretty cool :) (not that having limits is a bad thing, but that was what i was asking about.) annabelle.

hisannabelle -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 4:58:13 PM)
greetings, someone mentioned "no limits" in conjunction to doormat slavery, and i don't recall who did it, but why, first of all, does having no limits (or none other than your dominant's) make you a doormat, and why, second of all, is that stated like it's a bad thing? i'm curious to see how people make those associations. having no limits and being a doormat are two completely different things to me. annabelle.

FukinTroll -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 5:07:22 PM)
~Quicky~ Perhaps we may need to focus a lil more on a few ideas of no limits. Do you submit to be given away, sold, traded, etc… to another D whom you may have never met? Do you submit to be bound, caged, or otherwise restrained for days without explanation? We will start with those two and hope for the most heart felt and honest answers.

hisannabelle -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 5:21:10 PM)
i have consented to submitting to him unconditionally. if he chose to trade/sell me permanently to someone else, then the issue of consenting would come up, because i prefer to know whose collar is around my neck. however, once i'm in it, i don't seek to put any limits on it. to me, that would be a whole new issue of taking another collar, not continuing my service to him, and he looks at it the same way, which is one of the reasons i'm with him and not with someone who looks at it differently. if he chose to trade/sell me temporarily to someone else, then yes, i have agreed to that, because it's something i would be doing still in his service. yes, i do submit to being bound, caged, or otherwise restrained for days without explanation. or rather, if he ever had the inclination, i wouldn't by any means argue with it. i think in cases like this it comes down to the compatibility you have with the person whose collar you are wearing. i chose to get involved with someone who doesn't believe in permanently selling or trading his human property without their knowledge and/or consent. we both would see that as me entering into a different collar, which means that the decision would be in my hands, not his. i chose to get involved with someone who values my secondary commitments - school, work and what have you - sometimes even more than -i- value them, sometimes to the point where it drives me nuts :P the fact that he values that is one of the reasons that i trusted him enough to give those rights over to him in the first place. doesn't mean he doesn't have the right or the ability to keep me caged for four days and not let me go to class or work or whatever; he does. i wouldn't argue. but i also wouldn't originally be collared by someone who had a radically different view of how things were going to be than i did, or valued radically different things than i did; i mean, people act like looking for partners in bdsm is so different from looking for partners in the vanilla world, but the issue of compatibility is still there. otherwise, how does one pick between partners? why do we not accept the collar of the next person who comes along? annabelle.

jauntyone -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 5:53:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll ~Quicky~ Perhaps we may need to focus a lil more on a few ideas of no limits. Do you submit to be given away, sold, traded, etc… to another D whom you may have never met? Do you submit to be bound, caged, or otherwise restrained for days without explanation? We will start with those two and hope for the most heart felt and honest answers. Greetings If Master, for some reason, wished to trade, give away, or sell me, it is well within his rights to do so. If Master were to bind me, cage me, gag me, etc etc, for days on end, with no explanatin; he is well within his rights to do so. I wish you well melissa

kyraofMists -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 6:20:51 PM)
We do not use the term hard limits. Limits are limits; some are self-imposed and others exist purely to protect a person's well-being. We distinguish the later by calling them boundaries. Within my relationship I have no self-imposed limits. He makes the decisions on what my limits will be and they are placed there by him to protect my boundaries and my well-being. I have limits, they are just decided by him and not me. There are times that he will make the decision to push a limit that he has established. However, he will not make that choice until he is certain that it can be pushed without harming me or the relationship. Anytime he has pushed it has only strengthened our relationship and given me a sense of empowerment. I may have suffered during it and afterwards trying to process what happened, but in the end they have been positive experiences. Knight's kyra

Mercnbeth -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 6:46:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad ...although this didn't come across entirely clearly... this slave doesn't limit Master or the relationship...pretty simple actually, if you have been reading this slave's posts instead of assuming something different after each attempt at clarifying. quote: Perhaps we may need to focus a lil more on a few ideas of no limits...orig: FukinTroll thing is, people get hung up on the "there is no such thing as ________", just because they can't fathom it in the circumstances of their life. it isn't specific to the "no limits = doormat" way of thinking. there are those here who will argue there is no such thing as a consensual slave, or a number of other things that have been debated ad nauseum on these boards. there are those here that will defend all manner of certainties about another or their relationship(s) simply because they refuse to open their minds to accept another's perspective or way of living. it happens frequently in the 'nilla world as well. quote: Do you submit to be given away, sold, traded, etc… to another D whom you may have never met? Do you submit to be bound, caged, or otherwise restrained for days without explanation? this slave submitted to be used for Master's pleasure, not her own, and accepted the limits He already had, not present Him with a list to adhere to.

minnetar -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 7:50:45 PM)
Greetings Master Loki, This girl isn't collared but thinks would do as ordered. The Master would know what is best for this girl. minnetar

daddysprop247 -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 9:49:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll ~Quicky~ Perhaps we may need to focus a lil more on a few ideas of no limits. Do you submit to be given away, sold, traded, etc… to another D whom you may have never met? Do you submit to be bound, caged, or otherwise restrained for days without explanation? We will start with those two and hope for the most heart felt and honest answers. He may do whatever he wills with me. my submission is a given, that is part and parcel of being someone's property. He wishes to give me away or sell me? bind or cage me for days on end, no explanation? then that is what will be.

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 10:40:35 PM)
Since I started this my hard limits are few and unchanged. No long-term damage - mental, emotional, physical, financial, spiritual, familial. No interest in those limits changing. There is more than enough room to play within those very wide parameters. More than enough things I have never tried which would be new to me. There's no need for us to push my limits.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/12/2007 11:25:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll ~Quicky~ Perhaps we may need to focus a lil more on a few ideas of no limits. Do you submit to be given away, sold, traded, etc… to another D whom you may have never met? Yes. We have talked about this, actually. Because of our age differences and his health, it is likely he will leave this earth before I do. He has considered the option of bequeathing me to one he finds appropriate enough to give me to, under certain conditions. He will likely not give me away prior to his own death because he tends to not get rid of things he enjoys. But he could if he wanted, and I would submit to that decision as I do all others. quote: Do you submit to be bound, caged, or otherwise restrained for days without explanation? He does lots of extremely difficult things to me without explanation. I do not need an explanation from him to do what he wants. We are at a point where devotion, trust, obedience and complete surrender allow me to simply do or endure whatever he sets out for me. So my answer is yes to this question as well. quote: We will start with those two and hope for the most heart felt and honest answers. My answers were honest and heartfelt. What some people do not understand is that I want whatever he wants for me and of me. Even the most extremely difficult situations are ones I will embrace, simply because he wants them. Sometimes he will give me the choice in a situation, and he will propose two "evils." I will always choose the harder of the two, because to do otherwise would somehow be giving him less. Keep in mind, you are asking these questions to girls who have gone through extremes for their Masters. Some of us will actually clean our Master with our mouths after he makes a bowel movement. Some of us have actually been given to a complete stranger for amusement before. So it would seem that whatever hypothetical you want to suggest is going to be met with the same answers. Do a search on "Limits" threads. You will find all sorts of hypotheticals from the mild to the ridiculous and everything in between. And the answers that are given are consistent. Some of us really mean it when we say we do what is expected of us, and we do so willingly. Some of us really do mean it when we say we do not limit our Masters in our relationships. And despite however many threads there will be on this topic, and however many hypotheticals will be bandied about, there are those who won't ever believe our answers. And so it goes...[;)]

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 3:53:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll Do you submit to be given away, sold, traded, etc… to another D whom you may have never met? You know this puts me in mind of days of old and long gone by. When i first became a bikers old lady it was common practice to buy-sell-trade your old lady, we were and understood we were property, period. Often the women were consulted but just as often they were not to see if they agreed to the new prospective old man. The father of my oldest two replicants acquired me by purchasing me from my then old man. I was consulted, i was even offered a chance to try him out to see if i agreed. I cannot quote the price because it involved illegal substances, but it was a nice one. None of this upset me in the least, i knew it was how it was, that's all. I did ask to try him out. Which surprisingly enough was my first taste of S&M. Lmao....i said, yes, oh my yes and hell yeah and never looked back. So i can honestly say this one is not a hard limit for me. I was simply raised in both the BDSM and biker lifestyles to accept this was part of it. Edited to add; Thinking about this i figured i should add a few comments here. For bikers back then this was a good way to keep the pool of available trained or semi trained old ladies viable. It offered the opportunity to both the men and women to switch around partners while remaining in the "family" group without hard feelings until the parties involved were with the one/ones that they fell in love with. At that point a personal "Property of" tattoo was usually given, at which point the old lady was for the most part inviolate from that point forward.

Aswad -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 6:02:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth this slave doesn't limit Master or the relationship...pretty simple actually, if you have been reading this slave's posts instead of assuming something different after each attempt at clarifying. My assumptions are updated by the information you provide. If you would prefer, I can let my initial and incorrect assumptions be my guide. Personally, I would prefer to correct any that are wrong. [:D] It is obvious that I am not able to properly explain the difference. One of these limits the Master, a type which you've pointed out repeatedly that you don't have. The other does not limit the master, but merely indicates things that would be difficult for you, e.g. for moral reasons or due to aversions, a type you have not clarified if you have. If my explanation still doesn't convey the difference, let's just leave it at that, rather than derailing the thread. quote: thing is, people get hung up on the "there is no such thing as ________", just because they can't fathom it in the circumstances of their life. it isn't specific to the "no limits = doormat" way of thinking. there are those here who will argue there is no such thing as a consensual slave, or a number of other things that have been debated ad nauseum on these boards. I'm not hung up on that, and can certainly fit that into the circumstances of my life. Nor do I subscribe to the assumption about "doormats". As for what has already been debated, I'm new to these boards, so I'll have to apologize for not having read every single thread yet. [;)] quote: there are those here that will defend all manner of certainties about another or their relationship(s) simply because they refuse to open their minds to accept another's perspective or way of living. it happens frequently in the 'nilla world as well. I am not one of those; your lifestyle is much like my own. I discuss in general terms, most of the time, and I was just trying to clarify the intent of the OP.

kiyari -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 8:35:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: arayofsunshine55 Since I started this my hard limits are few and unchanged. No long-term damage - mental, emotional, physical, financial, spiritual, familial. No interest in those limits changing. There is more than enough room to play within those very wide parameters. More than enough things I have never tried which would be new to me. There's no need for us to push my limits. Thank you for laying out the perfect "Hard Limits" list! I would add to this only: "Legal" ;-) quote: ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll Do you submit to be given away, sold, traded, etc… to another D whom you may have never met? You know this puts me in mind of days of old and long gone by. When i first became a bikers old lady it was common practice to buy-sell-trade your old lady, we were and understood we were property, period. Often the women were consulted but just as often they were not to see if they agreed to the new prospective old man. The father of my oldest two replicants acquired me by purchasing me from my then old man. I was consulted, i was even offered a chance to try him out to see if i agreed. I cannot quote the price because it involved illegal substances, but it was a nice one. None of this upset me in the least, i knew it was how it was, that's all. I did ask to try him out. Which surprisingly enough was my first taste of S&M. Lmao....i said, yes, oh my yes and hell yeah and never looked back. So i can honestly say this one is not a hard limit for me. I was simply raised in both the BDSM and biker lifestyles to accept this was part of it. Edited to add; Thinking about this i figured i should add a few comments here. For bikers back then this was a good way to keep the pool of available trained or semi trained old ladies viable. It offered the opportunity to both the men and women to switch around partners while remaining in the "family" group without hard feelings until the parties involved were with the one/ones that they fell in love with. At that point a personal "Property of" tattoo was usually given, at which point the old lady was for the most part inviolate from that point forward. Sounds like a natural and thus healthy evolution. OTHER: I do sense considerable idealism in those who BOAST of having 'no limits' [too many 'Romance' novels, hmmm?] ...that their One could do what all ever occurs to him/her/them, in even their deepest psychotic moment, and such a BOASTFUL one would IDEALLY be up to all, endure all gags MARTYR MARTYR MARTYR [:'(] erm, 'scuse me, got distracted there BLECH! (Erm, that is just my considered layperson's opinion, of course) More like... scary, indeed. Disclaimer: This bugs the hell outta me, but I do say that's just my gut reaction. Criticism is not the way to persuade, so just venting I guess. If it works for you and you are all in it consenting, not MY business... in here just saying opinion, nothing more. ~~~ Think Globally, Act Locally

softness -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 9:29:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll How many of you adhere to your hard limits? Now i stick solidly to my hard limits because they are created on the basis of greater experience and understanding. In the past i put anything that frightened me as a hard limit because i didn't have the confidence in myself and my partners, didn't understand what play of that kind would involve and was generally being verrrrrrrry cautious. How many have been pushed into a hard limit and were glad they did? yes, on more than one limit, but it was always things whch i had set as a hard limit because of my own misconceptions or misunderstandings, being eased through that self imposed barrier with someone i trusted and who had a far greater understanding of it that me, surrounded with lots of communication and encouragement ...helped me grow and i will be greatful to Him for the rest of my days. How many have been pushed into a hard limit and suffered because of it? yes, once, i had set intentional branding and scarring of any kind as a hard limit i had stated ths quite clearly at several points, there was no question of a miscommuncation between Dom and me. Several times when i was in bondage he would threaten me with it, most usually (he was a smoker) by saying he would use me as an ashtray and stub the butts out on me. i never safeworded out of those scenes because i knew they would be just threats (we had afterall agreed scarring or branding of this kind as a hard limit). Once however he followed through wth the threat, and stubbed out several fag buts on me, he didn't listen to the safe word when it was said, shouted, screamed, snarled or begged. He claimed afterwards in his defence he assumed i had changed my mind about it as a limit because i never stopped him when he threatened it. i might have believed him had he listening to my safeword. I would say in this instance it was not the breaking of the limit that did the damage in was the man and the manner in which it was done. I was violated by him, nstead of being evolved by him.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 9:39:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Keep in mind, you are asking these questions to girls who have gone through extremes for their Masters. Some of us will actually clean our Master with our mouths after he makes a bowel movement. Some of us have actually been given to a complete stranger for amusement before. So it would seem that whatever hypothetical you want to suggest is going to be met with the same answers. Do a search on "Limits" threads. You will find all sorts of hypotheticals from the mild to the ridiculous and everything in between. And the answers that are given are consistent. Some of us really mean it when we say we do what is expected of us, and we do so willingly. Some of us really do mean it when we say we do not limit our Masters in our relationships. And despite however many threads there will be on this topic, and however many hypotheticals will be bandied about, there are those who won't ever believe our answers. And so it goes...[;)] pretty much, lol. sometimes it almost seems pointless, these discussions, because you know certain people will never believe any differently, are certain of their rightness beyond question, and will continue to believe those like you and i are delusional looney tunes. but i think we'd be doing a disservice to the community, and especially to those soul-searching newbies who may seek out this type of life, if we didn't make sure to get the message across that this too, can be a reality.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 9:52:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 pretty much, lol. sometimes it almost seems pointless, these discussions, because you know certain people will never believe any differently, are certain of their rightness beyond question, and will continue to believe those like you and i are delusional looney tunes. but i think we'd be doing a disservice to the community, and especially to those soul-searching newbies who may seek out this type of life, if we didn't make sure to get the message across that this too, can be a reality. Hey I happen to love my world of looney tunes, lol And the number of emails I get on the other side, from those afraid of speaking up publically for fear of being bashed by the skeptics, continues to surprise me, and it is why I continue to post about such things.

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