RE: Adhering to hard limits

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 11:04:52 AM)
quote: It is obvious that I am not able to properly explain the difference. One of these limits the Master, a type which you've pointed out repeatedly that you don't have. The other does not limit the master, but merely indicates things that would be difficult for you, e.g. for moral reasons or due to aversions, a type you have not clarified if you have. If my explanation still doesn't convey the difference, let's just leave it at that, rather than derailing the thread. this slave understands fully your explanations of the differences of "types" of limits that you perceive and how they apply to "a" slave or "a" Master or "a" relationship--in theory and generalization. got it the first time. what you seem not to understand is that a slave or sub could actually NOT limit by way of rules, demands, safewords, hard or soft, the relationship they are a part of, or their Master/Mistress. it happens in many relationships. just because folks outside the realtionship don't understand, or think it's unsafe, or wouldn't do it themselves, doesn't make it inherently wrong, unethical, unrealistic, unhealthy, impossible, unfulfilling, misrepresented or undesired by others.

gypsygrl -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 11:47:17 AM)
quote: just because folks outside the realtionship don't understand, or think it's unsafe, or wouldn't do it themselves, doesn't make it inherently wrong, unethical, unrealistic, unhealthy, impossible, unfulfilling, misrepresented or undesired by others. I have to back this up. When I'm honest with myself and clearly write out how I approach limits, it seems crazy even to me. But, in practice when I start really working with the idea of limits, I find I can't specify them in advance. Its not that I don't have any points of resistance because I'm sure I do, so I dont call myself a "no limits" gal. But, I've been in plenty of situations where I thought I could never do this or that and found out I had no trouble with it whatsoever. There have been times where I thought I could do something, and found in the moment of truth that I couldn't. There have been times when, of necessity, I've even gone against my own morals and realized the morals I thought I had didn't take everything into account. (I've learned to be very careful when judging people because of this. Judgements tend to come back to haunt me.) The more I've thought about it, the more I'm convinced that the problem isn't with people who have "no limits" but in the way we think and talk about this idea of limits.

FukinTroll -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 11:57:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl The more I've thought about it, the more I'm convinced that the problem isn't with people who have "no limits" but in the way we think and talk about this idea of limits. Bingo! That gets ya a slurp! This thread illustrates this well. When we are accepting one another we enter that relationship with a good idea of how the dynamic will work. We, should, understand our values to each other and the limits issue really would have no power.

Aswad -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 6:14:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth this slave understands fully your explanations of the differences of "types" of limits that you perceive and how they apply to "a" slave or "a" Master or "a" relationship--in theory and generalization. got it the first time. sigh This does not appear to be the case, and I'm obviously not able to explain it. Hence, I'll stop trying to do that. [sm=banghead.gif] quote: what you seem not to understand is that a slave or sub could actually NOT limit by way of rules, demands, safewords, hard or soft, the relationship they are a part of, or their Master/Mistress. And here is where I say you're just focusing on one side of the issue. Everything you have mentioned here is related to what I called "hard" or "relationship" limits. But I'm not about to go back and try to explain the other type unless anyone specifically wants me to. quote: it happens in many relationships. just because folks outside the realtionship don't understand, or think it's unsafe, or wouldn't do it themselves, doesn't make it inherently wrong, unethical, unrealistic, unhealthy, impossible, unfulfilling, misrepresented or undesired by others. I know it happens in many relationships. I understand. I think it can be safe, depending on the Master. I would certainly do it myself, just with a specific standard of informed consent up front, one that will seem odd to most, I'd wager, but, yeah, I'd do it myself. I don't think it's inherently wrong (I'm a moral relativist, there is no "inherently wrong" in any action or point of view, IMO). I don't think it's unethical, as long as prior consent was given. I don't think it's unrealistic. I haven't a clue as to whether it's healthy, nor do I care if the slave agrees to it up front. I know it's not impossible. I imagine it would be very fulfilling. I don't consider it undesireable. Can I possibly be more clear? [sm=banghead.gif] Sincerely, Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 6:16:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl The more I've thought about it, the more I'm convinced that the problem isn't with people who have "no limits" but in the way we think and talk about this idea of limits. Quite agree. This is what I was trying to clear up, although I don't seem to be conveying the point very well.

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 7:41:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari quote: ORIGINAL: arayofsunshine55 Since I started this my hard limits are few and unchanged. No long-term damage - mental, emotional, physical, financial, spiritual, familial. No interest in those limits changing. There is more than enough room to play within those very wide parameters. More than enough things I have never tried which would be new to me. There's no need for us to push my limits. Thank you for laying out the perfect "Hard Limits" list! I would add to this only: "Legal" ;-) For me legal would impact financial, mental, emotional and familial and spiritual and is therefore covered under those. [;)]

catize -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 11:10:55 PM)
quote: How many of you adhere to your hard limits? How many have been pushed into a hard limit and were glad they did? How many have been pushed into a hard limit and suffered because of it? My limits are based on one of two things; the first is that I have tried it and experienced such a negative emotional fall out that I will never do it again. The second is that I have no desire to risk my life. My hard limits are mine; it doesn’t matter to me whether a dominant has those same limits or not. Either he accepts my limits or moves on.

DarkVictory -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/13/2007 11:56:07 PM)
But what about those of us that want and intend to violate you?

softness -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/14/2007 10:19:00 AM)
but You know i am "limits girl" .. what fun would there be in violating me if i had no limits Master? and FYI ... You are the one with the ice cream cone ... i might be violating You .. starting with Your oatmeal limits! xxxxx

Stranger1 -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (4/15/2007 3:28:06 PM)
Limits and respect are for everyone-not just subs.

ckmidmodom -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (9/21/2007 8:57:41 PM)
Evening. I do so enjoy pushing hard limits...probing them...attempting to understand them, then attacking them. For me, being a Dom is extending the experiences of my sub. LOL....probably why I am sub-less at the moment. Hope all of you are well. Feel free to drop me a line.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (9/21/2007 9:10:49 PM)
Hard limits are usualy there because to breach that hard limit would damage someone emotionally or pychically, or it's so repugnant they never wish to do it. So if it's the latter maybe if it's a hard limit cause it'd be damaging, those in my mind are never to be messed with. Obviously some are there, like no children cause we have no desire to be child molesters, I doubt those kind are the limits you're talking about pushing though lol. quote: ORIGINAL: ckmidmodom Evening. I do so enjoy pushing hard limits...probing them...attempting to understand them, then attacking them.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (9/21/2007 9:24:36 PM)
Yup yup yup, I had anal sex as a hard limit, I still do for those who'd demand it of me, regardless of my lack of interest or not, but for someone who's willing to tease me and talk to me and put me in the headspace where I'd beg them to fuck my ass, cause I wanted it so much, I'd do anal. That's the mark of a good* in my opnion* dominant, they can patiently work at something and in time hell I'd be so eager to do it you would of thought it was my idea in the first place. quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I hate these sort of threads. I believe limits should be expected and that many who push limits should be pushed off a cliff. That said, I fucking LOVE pushing limits. Pushing however isn't the best word for it. I don't push limits I seduce them, I don't undermine them, I respect them. Its a lot like anal sex, its ALWAYS hot to talk about shoving a big cock in without lube but the reality isn't always quite as hot. However, talking about it, teasing it, showing respect AND patience often yields rewards and offers an amazing bonding experience. The trick is to not expect anything, something at times I find hard but that is where patience comes in.

RRafe -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (9/21/2007 9:25:51 PM)
Back in the day..I tried switching-thought it the thing to do. I listed having my asshole played wityh as a hard Limit to the Domme I was seeing. She thought it was silly-and put a finger up there one day. I dumped her. She whined, she bitched she told me I was immature, and not a sub. I told her to go fuck her own ass-if she liked it so damn much. It was a lesson in respect that I never forgot-I was always upfront about my kinks after that-and If someone limits them-fine-we won't have a relationship. But PUSH a hard limit? I don't think so.

RRafe -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (9/21/2007 10:27:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss Yup yup yup, I had anal sex as a hard limit, I still do for those who'd demand it of me, regardless of my lack of interest or not, but for someone who's willing to tease me and talk to me and put me in the headspace where I'd beg them to fuck my ass, cause I wanted it so much, I'd do anal. That's the mark of a good* in my opnion* dominant, they can patiently work at something and in time hell I'd be so eager to do it you would of thought it was my idea in the first place. quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I hate these sort of threads. I believe limits should be expected and that many who push limits should be pushed off a cliff. That said, I fucking LOVE pushing limits. Pushing however isn't the best word for it. I don't push limits I seduce them, I don't undermine them, I respect them. Its a lot like anal sex, its ALWAYS hot to talk about shoving a big cock in without lube but the reality isn't always quite as hot. However, talking about it, teasing it, showing respect AND patience often yields rewards and offers an amazing bonding experience. The trick is to not expect anything, something at times I find hard but that is where patience comes in. Yes,that would be the realistic, fun way to do it. And how I always have-not by brunt of an inflated ego.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Adhering to hard limits (9/21/2007 10:55:44 PM)
It's an extreamly fucking shame you're so far away RRafe, I'd be willing to play with ya if you were interested and not so far away lol. I'm not into D/s protocal's either.

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