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RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 8:34:42 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		When your children ask you straight up questions, are you supposed to lie? There were many times I told my son it was none of his business or that he was too young to know that information... I never lied to him.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 8:39:30 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

When your children ask you straight up questions, are you supposed to lie? There were many timeWhen s I told my son it was none of his business or that he was too young to know that information... I never lied to him.


When did i say lie?  That wasn't a term i mentioned.  When you are in a difficult situation with an ex-spouse discretion is needed is all i was trying to say.  By the way, why it is that when one of either you or Sinergy is confronted you both pounce?  i would think He can defend himself.

minnetar

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 8:43:09 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Not a reply to anybody in particular.

The only comment I have ever made to either of my children is essentially "Court orders prohibit me from discussing your mother with either of you."

Whenever my ex-wife has an emotional meltdown because I objected to my parents about my ex-wife meddling in my affairs or insulting the people in my life, pointing out to them that my ex-wife is in violation of court orders, or am tired of her attempts to stalk me, my son stops returning my phone calls.

Go figure.

Sinergy


Why even go there?  By making a statement like that you are putting her down. One of my brother's has a wacko ex wife.  my parents have refrained making any statements about her even though she has made many damaging statements about them and now they have a decent relationship.  i believe that kind of statement is made to influence a child.

minnetar



So what answer would you prefer I give them?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 8:44:53 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

my son stops returning my phone calls


That's gotta be rough. My sympathies.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 8:44:56 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Not a reply to anybody in particular.

The only comment I have ever made to either of my children is essentially "Court orders prohibit me from discussing your mother with either of you."

Whenever my ex-wife has an emotional meltdown because I objected to my parents about my ex-wife meddling in my affairs or insulting the people in my life, pointing out to them that my ex-wife is in violation of court orders, or am tired of her attempts to stalk me, my son stops returning my phone calls.

Go figure.

Sinergy


Why even go there?  By making a statement like that you are putting her down. One of my brother's has a wacko ex wife.  my parents have refrained making any statements about her even though she has made many damaging statements about them and now they have a decent relationship.  i believe that kind of statement is made to influence a child.

minnetar



So what answer would you prefer I give them?

Sinergy


Sinergy,
Why even make a statement about the ex-wife.  Just tell Your kids You don't care to discuss it.  They are intelligent.  i am sure they are aware of the dynamics.  By making the statement You did You make them choose sides.

minnetar

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 8:48:58 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar



quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

When your children ask you straight up questions, are you supposed to lie? There were many timeWhen s I told my son it was none of his business or that he was too young to know that information... I never lied to him.


When did i say lie?  That wasn't a term i mentioned.  When you are in a difficult situation with an ex-spouse discretion is needed is all i was trying to say.  By the way, why it is that when one of either you or Sinergy is confronted you both pounce?  i would think He can defend himself.

minnetar



I apologize if you feel ganged up upon or that you feel you cannot have more than one person to respond to at once. I will remember this and avoid engaging you in the future.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 8:54:45 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar



quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

When your children ask you straight up questions, are you supposed to lie? There were many timeWhen s I told my son it was none of his business or that he was too young to know that information... I never lied to him.


When did i say lie?  That wasn't a term i mentioned.  When you are in a difficult situation with an ex-spouse discretion is needed is all i was trying to say.  By the way, why it is that when one of either you or Sinergy is confronted you both pounce?  i would think He can defend himself.

minnetar



I apologize if you feel ganged up upon or that you feel you cannot have more than one person to respond to at once. I will remember this and avoid engaging you in the future.




that wasn't the point Julia.  You both have such a need to defend the others statements. i truly find it incredulous.  Why not allow Him to defend it.  i am sure He doesn't need you to go around protecting Him.  i find it very amusing that the two of you are unable to stand alone on statements and both gang up if either of you makes a statement.  i would think you Julia as intelligent as you are doesn't need Sinergy to support your argument or that Sinergy needs you to do that.  But you  you approached the subject being protective - did you think about what i said?  There is alot of sickness in divorce.  The child doesn't need to be hurt regardless so any comment about an ex spouse can be damaging.  Think twice about a comment because the person who gets hurt is the child.

minnetar

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:17:46 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
Kid "Mom blah"

Sinergy stands mute

Kid "Mom blah, why arent you answering?

Sinergy stands mute

I dont see that working.  So I simply point out to them I am unwilling to discuss it.

Kid  "Why not?"

Sinergy stands mute

Kid "Why arent you answering"

Sinergy stands mute.

I dont see that working either. 

So the approach I used was to simply state that based on court documents I was not at liberty to discuss their mother with either of them.  While you might see this as making a derogatory comment about my ex-wife, I see it as the ONLY answer I can provide which my ex-wife will not drag me in to court to explain.

If my kid's wanted to know about it, I could give them the divorce decree.

Sinergy

p.s.  My attorney has enough evidence (emails, mails, answering machine messages my kids left where my ex-wife is ranting about how horrible I am in the background) to have her up on contempt of court with about 30 or so counts.  I have not filed these because I see my kids as being the losers and I refuse to engage in conflict with my ex-wife.

p.p.s.  I find it a bit amusing that when juliaoceania agrees with something I am posting, and posts that, she is perceived as jumping to my defense.  If we were not known by the boards to be in a relationship, I tend to doubt this sort of connection would be made by anybody.


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:28:48 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

that wasn't the point Julia.  You both have such a need to defend the others statements. i truly find it incredulous.  Why not allow Him to defend it.  i am sure He doesn't need you to go around protecting Him.  i find it very amusing that the two of you are unable to stand alone on statements and both gang up if either of you makes a statement.  i would think you Julia as intelligent as you are doesn't need Sinergy to support your argument or that Sinergy needs you to do that.  But you  you approached the subject being protective - did you think about what i said?  There is alot of sickness in divorce.  The child doesn't need to be hurt regardless so any comment about an ex spouse can be damaging.  Think twice about a comment because the person who gets hurt is the child.

minnetar


Listen, I was involved in this discussion prior to his posting on it, read my long response to luci...I did not know that only one of us could have the same conversation on a thread. Perhaps he and I should draw straws to see who gets to post on a thread, as it is we often view things in a very similar way. He needs no defending from me... seriously.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:31:35 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


Kid "Mom blah"

Sinergy stands mute

Kid "Mom blah, why arent you answering?

Sinergy stands mute

I dont see that working.  So I simply point out to them I am unwilling to discuss it.

Kid  "Why not?"

Sinergy stands mute

Kid "Why arent you answering"

Sinergy stands mute.

I dont see that working either. 

So the approach I used was to simply state that based on court documents I was not at liberty to discuss their mother with either of them.  While you might see this as making a derogatory comment about my ex-wife, I see it as the ONLY answer I can provide which my ex-wife will not drag me in to court to explain.

If my kid's wanted to know about it, I could give them the divorce decree.

Sinergy

p.s.  My attorney has enough evidence (emails, mails, answering machine messages my kids left where my ex-wife is ranting about how horrible I am in the background) to have her up on contempt of court with about 30 or so counts.  I have not filed these because I see my kids as being the losers and I refuse to engage in conflict with my ex-wife.

p.p.s.  I find it a bit amusing that when juliaoceania agrees with something I am posting, and posts that, she is perceived as jumping to my defense.  If we were not known by the boards to be in a relationship, I tend to doubt this sort of connection would be made by anybody.



Sinergy my original post stands.  Why even make the comments unless trying to influence the kids.  You are more intelligent than that.  You win no points by making any kind of statements about the ex.

i found julia amusing as she jumped into it before You even could.  Everyone knows you are a couple even as a newbie that i am.  Did You also miss the statement that You don't need a defense for what You believe in?  i love how the two of you blow off a question instead of answering or answer it days later.

minnetar

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:36:30 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
You win, minnetar

I should have stood mute in the face of direct questioning by my own children.

Sinergy

p.s.  I apologize for sometimes taking days to respond.  While I know it is not a really valid excuse, I work two jobs and have a life outside of cyberspace.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:38:08 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		lol----kids know, and it aint like you gotta hide it, and it aint like you gotta soften it either, they know santa claus is a lie---

I am quitting this now.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:41:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

lol----kids know, and it aint like you gotta hide it, and it aint like you gotta soften it either, they know santa claus is a lie---

I am quitting this now.

Ron



So much wisdom here, it was not like I had to say anything, my UM, he knew things because he was just perceptive and knew me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:45:06 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline 		Sir

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

lol----kids know, and it aint like you gotta hide it, and it aint like you gotta soften it either, they know santa claus is a lie---

I am quitting this now.

Ron



Sir i dont even have kids but 10 neices and nephews.  i know they aren't stupid.  Any statement made by the parent about the other was done to influence them.  i do not love all my inlaws or ex-inlaws but i have no intention of letting the kids know that.  i am there to show them love because they are not responsible for another's actions.  That is where my viewpoint is coming from.  God knows my little brother has reasons to be hurt and spiteful but there will never be any excuse for relating that to his children.

minnetar

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:50:15 PM   
QuietlySeeking


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


You win, minnetar

I should have stood mute in the face of direct questioning by my own children.

Sinergy

p.s.  I apologize for sometimes taking days to respond.  While I know it is not a really valid excuse, I work two jobs and have a life outside of cyberspace.


I've taken the same approach as Sinergy with my son.  When he asks a question, he expects an answer because I give him answers with everything else.

minnetar:  Questions aren't just dropped.  Curious natures tend to ask the question over-and-over-and-over ad infinitum...and a "I don't want to discuss it" actually in my case was counter-productive.  My son assumed I was {insert negative feeling here} and tried to console me; while it was interesting to watch his reaction, it's not an answer that *he* will accept on a regular basis.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 9:53:01 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline 		Why not say to a child that the only thing that is important is that you love them without discussing the other person? 

minnetar

(in reply to QuietlySeeking)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 10:05:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I went to divorce class, run by welfare, the jokes I can tell.

they showed slides and movies like high school, and according to the state teachers,(this was what I learned):

men are usually at fault somehow and violent (or the most significant contributor, they were laudable enough to admit that) yadda yadda yadda yadda
many times in a divorce, people will harm pets
some large percentage of first marraiges end in divorce
a not to much smaller percentages of marraiges end in divorce:

but there is hope, look at Micky Rooney and Elizabeth Taylor

-----------

my ex wanted to sit next to me in the classes and share, for the good of the kid
yanno, take notes and discuss

the girls were sharing amongst themselves and the men were arms akimbo and eyes cast down

apparently, they perceived me as recalcitrant, and had not studied body language because since the soon to be ex wanted to ride share, I said fine and she drove and I was drunk as a lord arms crossed and when queried gave presented a cohesive message of laughing my ass off and the sound bite was----why dont you fuck off you stupid cunt to the teachers..


this was not the final enlightenment as they saw it, and recommended that I take the class on relationships  down the hall....

Well I says, I am a three time loser, what the fuck do you think I am all of a sudden going to get?  (so, maybe you can teach an old dog)

Oh (she says with a lilt and a twitter (the facilitator)) the teacher down there is a 5 time divorcee and the woman who co teaches is a three time divorcee but they still have a joie de vervre (however that is spelled)

so look I says, why cant I just phone in my only question, Mick; Liz; do you think I should cakk the fuckin dog or what?


they thought that rather uncomely, and I declined to finish the course (which we paid for by the class) and the judge ordained, but when we went thru the paperwork on judgement day, and he huffed and puffed, it still turned out I was divorced and I still told him to fuck off and shove it up his ass same as the last two judges, and I dont think anyone is the worse for it.


Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 10:05:29 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy]

So what answer would you prefer I give them?

Sinergy



        Putting it off on the court makes it seem like the only reason you won't talk trash about someone they love (even if you don't) is because you're not allowed to.  It sounds like you mean it in joking sort of way, but if calls don't get returned, perhaps they don't see the joke?

      What's wrong with,"It's not right for me to talk about her with you?"  And then DON'T.   If the things you want to say are true, won't they figure it out for themselves eventually?  Won't they remember which parent at least tried to be civil and kind?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 10:07:11 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		and the outcome is different because nobody cakked the fuckin pet?  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Alec Baldwin blasts 11-yr old daughter - 4/21/2007 10:09:45 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy]

So what answer would you prefer I give them?

Sinergy



       Putting it off on the court makes it seem like the only reason you won't talk trash about someone they love (even if you don't) is because you're not allowed to.  It sounds like you mean it in joking sort of way, but if calls don't get returned, perhaps they don't see the joke?

     What's wrong with,"It's not right for me to talk about her with you?"  And then DON'T.   If the things you want to say are true, won't they figure it out for themselves eventually?  Won't they remember which parent at least tried to be civil and kind?


Rich thank You. i have my own qualms with my ex-sister in law but i would never say a word against her to the kids in that relationship.  It isn't fair for anyone to take sides in the situation because regardless of what parent says what they only harm the child and that is my only concern.

minnetar

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 80
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