RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time.

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popeye1250 -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/14/2007 8:01:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle "yes illegal is illegal" As a general response to this concept. Hiding Jews from the Nazi Occupation in France was "illegal", would those who blindly advocate obedience to the law, need to answer this question, would you have obeyed the law and reported those Jews, assuredly sending them to their deaths? We are talking about sending people back to their home country...not putting them in ovens. Find a better analogy. Fargle loves apples and oranges. This from a person who is on record as saying that raping prisoners is justifiable? I always keep your statements in mind when considering your opinions on my integrity. There he goes again. Fargle, I said that it's alright to rape prisoners in jail if it would save others' lives. They're lives would be saved and the prisoners would have a sore ass but still be alive. And what in hell does that other thread have to do with (this) one?

Griswold -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/15/2007 6:07:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy It's done...Put a fork in it. Agreed.

xxxtacy -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 8:31:16 AM)
Something I haven't seen anyone touch on regarding illegal aliens is identity theft. Identity theft is illegal and when it happens to you it's hard as hell to fix. When people are here illegally, they will steal a citizen's social security number and anything else they need so they can get a job. How is that any different from someone stealing your wallet and having themselves a jolly time with it? Identity theft is stealing and if someone is willing to come to our country and steal an innocent citizen's identity, then they are THIEFS. If someone will steal, there's no telling what else they will do. Illegal aliens can come over here, commit crimes, and run back to their country unpunished. It's also not so simple to prosecute an illegal alien as we don't know who they really are. I think the immigration crackdown in FB is WONDERFUL!!!!! So many people are so willing to say that it's a racial issue and everyone is just against the Mexicans, but it's not just Hispanics that are illegal aliens here. This issue is about the law and protecting lawful citizens. I, personally, have no problem with someone coming to our great country, as long as they do it lawfully. And of course illegal aliens are going to work cheaper than citizens, they don't have to pay hundreds of dollars in taxes like law abiding citizens do. If I didn't pay $300-$400 every two weeks in taxes, then I would probably work a hell of a lot cheaper than I do. But I have to pay taxes and help fund programs for people that are either too lazy or stupid to become a citizen the legal way.

LightHeartedMaam -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 8:45:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: You support slave labor, fargle? Because that is exactly what this is. Corporations are giving jobs to these illegals are extremely low wages in order to cut labor costs and increase profits. If they could compete OPENLY, then they couldn't be exploited. By permitting the unregulated movement of Labor, you enable THE MARKET to dictate wages and benefits, with an even playing field for all parties. We developed cotton picking machines. It's only a mater of time we develop adequate and efficient machines to harvest other produce. Americans are industrious that way. If you can't heighten the wall, remove the incentive. Right now, the the immigration bill has it's pluses and minuses. I had heard that if one wanted to immigrate to Australia, their acceptance was based on what their occupation was. If they needed more "xyz" they were accepted. Can anyone down-under knowledgeable about this confirm or deny?

Real0ne -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 8:57:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxxtacy And of course illegal aliens are going to work cheaper than citizens, they don't have to pay hundreds of dollars in taxes like law abiding citizens do. If I didn't pay $300-$400 every two weeks in taxes, then I would probably work a hell of a lot cheaper than I do. But I have to pay taxes and help fund programs for people that are either too lazy or stupid to become a citizen the legal way. Here is what i wrote on the subject in a parrallel thread: Another right on the target and i mean dead center on target excellent Merc post! i was thinking about this a bit more too and there are far reaching implications here that go behind the "obvious" scenes. The muddy place where i manage to seem to spend most of my time and see things at a slightly different angle than what i sense most look at. Your point is well directed, 1 million calculated, 2 million actual, now 12 million, a short war now 5 years into it, wmds oops none found and i could fill cm's database with examples of them call red herrings "green paradise" and funny as it seems the greater majority of people will actually see it as green too. Nothing is what it seems! We have growing examples all around us. Tommorow its "may as well annex mexico" since they are all here, or the way we are going be annexed by mexico i really do not see much difference. I cannot tell you how it totally fries my ass what is going on with that and this country. This is robbing our kids of the ability to make a few bucks in the high school years and learning how to function in society. Rather than being forced to ship the work to mexico corps can just hire them here direct from within this country and as you pointed out "unmonitored" and once again the burden is also put on none other than??? you got it the tax payer. It shifts all the profits to the corporations and all the burdens to us, we the people! So there we have it, it comes right back down to the tax payer! Which of course takes us back to the feds as in reserve and bankers etc etc etc. The corporations are getting "no strings attached" cheap labor and the tax payer will in the end pay the bill for all the services these people will "consume" in the mean time when the layoffs come around. Do we kick them to the curb if they are sick? NO!! and that is not to suggest we should but make to a point, it then drives our costs up in medical and other areas, not to mention increased crime, insurance etc etc. i am sure you heard me rant about the "unlawfull" taxation as a result of wilson and "congress" running through the 16th amendment, or at least they supposedly ran it through. Could it be that what we see today is the way this government has always operated and only now with mass communication, video cameras etc it is now becoming apparent what has really been going on? i mean do we not have to ask ourselves the question: "how can this happen in america"? Could it be this is how they got through so much legislation that violates our constitution or at a minimum skirts that knifes edge? i think we all know they did after all ignore the borders regardless of the numerous protests and in fact you must be aware that they even put gaurds on the borders to insure they remained open! Then when we look backwards they say oops! Favorite terms, "coincidence", "we were looking the other way", "we simply do not have the man power". " well there is no interagency jurisdiction", "we need to create a new border security agency", "our funds were cut and we were unable to deal with it "... Is it only me or is this a never ending BROKEN RECORD in government? Is there a picture of exponentially growing government that we the ignorant are willingly paying for? The whole point of the federal government not being able to collect unapportioned taxes is to prevent misuse of tax money and growing government and is that not the exact problem that we are plagued with today. Here is what i see people failing to corectly connect: Constitutionally companies would have to raise prices as this would be "their" responsibility to pay, not ours, and the war would be their tax to pay also. "but they will just raise prices and hit us up anyway" is what i hear but what is not being taken into consideration that is crucial here: is then if these corporations insisted on being stoopid and raised prices we have the coice NOT to buy their product (which give us the final say!!!) because once they resort to inappropriate pricing the doors have now been opened for the little guys to get a foot hold in the market to drive those prices back down. The essence of a free market economy. (built in checks and balances) We do not have that in our present government! The governemnt used to have to "ask" the american people if corporate money was not enough for a war. For whatever reason, or at least one i cannot understand people do not make the connection how we are being raped and raped and raped into poverty through this policy of taxation, and MO of legislation resulting in people like myself claiming it is a conspiracy. (it is!) i do not want to hijack your thread here man but this was a prime opportunity to make the point how one seemingly insignificant change in our constitution as in the 16th can literally bring this country to its knees. I do hope this serves as an example of "how it is done" in government and i hope people get wise and do something about it instead of chasing red herrings and our tails while the tyrants feed us to the buzzards. Anyway i agree with your post, this border issue is representative of much larger problems in government that has become an epidemic in this country and we need to do something about it. i feel we, (all americans) should be on the phone to bitch about "anything" unconstitutional to our senators by self imposed mandate at least once a day for the rest of our lives till the phone company can no longer support all the calls. This amnesty absolutely cannot be allowed to go through! Mkaing the illegal legal... sheesh http://www.collarchat.com/m_1019952/tm.htm

EgosumDominus -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 10:24:23 AM)
Very good points you made. This is truly one of many problems that all have one common denominator. A government that has fallen out of touch with what the people want...legal citizens that is. And no longer works for us...we work for them. The machine is now our master.

popeye1250 -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 10:25:51 AM)
Realone, Ron Paul is looking better by the day!

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 11:35:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam Mz Mia, You may want to consider your choice of language to study :) http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0775272.html Most Widely Spoken Languages in the World Language Approx. number of speakers 1. Chinese (Mandarin) 1,075,000,000 2. English 514,000,000 3. Hindustani1 496,000,000 4. Spanish 425,000,000 5. Russian 275,000,000 6. Arabic 256,000,000 7. Bengali 215,000,000 8. Portuguese 194,000,000 9. Malay-Indonesian 176,000,000 10. French 129,000,000 LightHeartedMaam: Thank you for the link. It also points out that Spanish is the second most common language in the United States. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 12:34:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus It sickens me that criminals are flooding over our borders and our weak federal government has done nothing to stop it. So now a small city named Farmers Branch Texas has decided that enough is enough. My family, as yours may have well, came into this county the legal way...we earned it. Not rationalizing entitlement...it was an honor to be acceped as a US citizen. Sneeking into the US or any other country is a crime, and that makes them criminals. No quarter...regardless of where they are from. Egosumdominus: As you are from Texas I am sure you are aware of how Texas became populated with Anglos. If not perhaps you might want to investigate it. Jeff Long's Duel of Eagles gives an interesting account. I am sure, if you read it, you will find some startling parallels to to the very points you make. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 1:35:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: hisannabelle greetings egosum, and it sickens me that we make the immigration process so goddamned difficult that people feel compelled to enter the country illegally. but we all got problems. annabelle. They are not coming here illegally to become Americans. I would be interested in reading how you found this out? That's the problem. They are coming here illegally to take jobs at low wages (much lower than Americans are willing to work), work 80 hours a week, and then send that money back to Mexico. I think we can agree that a person may do with their own money what they choose. Most of the ones that cross the border illegally hate this country. I would be interested in reading how you discovered this. Look at how they refuse to learn english. Which of " they " refuse to learn english? Again how do you know this. When my great-grandparents immigrated here from Italy, they banned the Italian language in their home. They did not allow their children to speak anything else but english. Why? Because English is the language spoken in America. And America was their new home. Parentally enforced ignorance just does not make a lot of sense to me. They are the reason poverty is increasing in America. Perhaps you could validate this statement with some facts. There was a poll in Mexico that showed that 70% of Mexicans believe that the southwest United States belongs to Mexico and would support a movement to retake that land. Perhaps if you knew how the U.S. acquired this land you are talking about you might understand why they feel this way. There are drug cartels on the Mexican border that have more weapons and arms than Al-Queda. How could you possibly know this? There has been over 300 incursions by the Mexican military into the United States. If the Mexican military comes across the border and starts shooting at our border patrol (which has happened several times), that is an act of war Perhaps a cite to verify this? You do know that the U.S. has done the same don't you? and we have every right to defend ourselves. I say pull our troops out of Iraq Well the supply line would be shorter. and put it on the border. And shoot every damn thing that moves. Once Mexico crushes the drug cartels, stops the human trafficking, and stops the corruption in its ranks. By the same line of reasoning shouldn't the U.S. crush the criminal cartels in the U.S, Imprison those who would hire from the ranks of those trafficked, and imprison corrupt U.S. officials? ....then we can talk about immigration laws.

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 1:41:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Again, I ask the question. If CAPITAL can freely cross borders, then why not LABOR? You support slave labor, fargle? Because that is exactly what this is. Corporations are giving jobs to these illegals are extremely low wages in order to cut labor costs and increase profits. Slavery plane and simple, spot on. Look what Circuit City did a few months ago. They layed off all their workers and then hired new employees willing to work at much lower wages. More and more companies are doing this. Express your displeasure in writing to the CEO and don't shop there. I should have also said how I would also go one step further and impose massive fines on any corporation that hires an illegal alien. How about instead of fines we imprison the board of director and confiscate the corporation, they do it to drug dealers.

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 2:01:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty quote: ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus It sickens me that criminals are flooding over our borders and our weak federal government has done nothing to stop it. So now a small city named Farmers Branch Texas has decided that enough is enough. My family, as yours may have well, came into this county the legal way...we earned it. Not rationalizing entitlement...it was an honor to be acceped as a US citizen. Sneeking into the US or any other country is a crime, and that makes them criminals. No quarter...regardless of where they are from. Then they have kids here who are AUTOMATICALLY American Citizens, and since you can't send a parent back and leave a child here, the parent(s) get to stay as well, and they enver become citizens, How do you know they never become citizens? then they burden our various systems [Medical/Aid, Food Stamps, etc] How cam they do this...one of the first things that the welfare department does when someone applies for welfare is check if they are citizens. BTW food stamps, if you were to do a little research, are welfare for the rich not the poor. that are here to HELP Americans; throw in that some bad apples end up in prision and that those of us who ONLY speak english get penalized for NOT being bilingual in the workforce. When I went to high school a foreign language was a requirement for graduation...has that changed. I had always been told that the ability to speak a foreign language was the hallmark of an educated person. No other country in the world would go out of its way to have bilingual speakers all over or to make almost everything bilingual friendly. So why in the hell should we?! Japan is pretty much bi lingual. The Philippines are tri lingual. most European countries are multi lingual. Most of my family is Native American, aka Various tribes of the MidWest, the rest are from Spain and England, therebouts, so everyone was here leagally {said tongue in cheek}, or at least before we started to worry about immigration. A few things to remember: illigeal immigrants help out in the fields - picking fruit and other crops {if they didn't do it someone else would}; This is just not true. Unless and until the wage paid is commensurate with the labor, the crops would rot in the field. LA has the 1st largest populaiton of 'illegals' anywhere in the US, By the very nature of their being illegal quantification of them is nothing more than a guess. and the 2nd largest populaiton of Mexican citizens, ONLY 2nd to Mexico City. This is not true. What is true is that Los Angeles has the second largest latino population in the world. The majority of which are citizens of the U.S,

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 2:17:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus Several good points. But the bottom line is people that are not legally in this country are not entitled to any benefits the country offers its citizens, including health care, education and police protection among many other things. Honest people in this country pay for those services to be available...and not to any scum bag that wants to sneak across our boarders. And it’s not just the criminals from Mexico and South America that this movement is about. This is not a race related issue. There are thousands from Canada, Europe, Africa, Asia etc that are criminals in this country. My German and Irish ancestors immigrated to this country and did it the right way...the legal way. I resent the fact those scum bags think they are not subject to the same laws that govern the US citizens. Its time to take swift and unforgiving action against those criminals. EgosumDominus: What sort of swift and unforgiving action did you have in mind? thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 2:27:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iwannapullurhair El Presidente Bush already signed the U.S. into a North American Union agreement with Canada and Mexico-without congressional approval or a vote by the people. So he already gave the border away. The same day he signed this agreement he came out and called the minutemen vigilantes. Bush's attorneys also have thrown multiple border patrol agents in jail on the good word of Mexican drug smugglers. The border patrol guys shot this guy that fought with them and abandoned his van with 800 pounds of pot. The drug guy was supposedly hit in the ass, but got away. The US attorney and Homeland security sent agents down into Mexico, found the drug dealer, and brought him to an army base for treatment. Then they gave him immunity to testify against the agents. Now both agents are in jail for ten or eleven years. The agents names are Ramos and Compean. iwannapullurhair: The record shows that Ramos and Compean were convicted by a jury of their peers. The record shows that Ramos and Compean had council of their choice not an incompetent public defender. Two thugs try to murder and steal under color of authority and they got caught and sent to the penitentiary. Sounds like justice to me. If you have some evidence to the contrary perhaps you should contact their atourney with it. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 2:33:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jj292 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: You support slave labor, fargle? Because that is exactly what this is. Corporations are giving jobs to these illegals are extremely low wages in order to cut labor costs and increase profits. If they could compete OPENLY, then they couldn't be exploited. By permitting the unregulated movement of Labor, you enable THE MARKET to dictate wages and benefits, with an even playing field for all parties. What are you talking about? The labor market would be FLOODED with unskilled labor. Anyone in the lower to middle class will be royally screwed! jj292: Are you suggesting that the middle class is unskilled labor? thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 2:40:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Griswold quote: ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus It sickens me that criminals are flooding over our borders and our weak federal government has done nothing to stop it. So now a small city named Farmers Branch Texas has decided that enough is enough. My family, as yours may have well, came into this county the legal way...we earned it. Not rationalizing entitlement...it was an honor to be acceped as a US citizen. Sneeking into the US or any other country is a crime, and that makes them criminals. No quarter...regardless of where they are from. If by criminals, you mean people with murder, rape, theft and such on their records prior to coming in to our country (or after)...I couldn't agree more. If by criminals, you mean however, folks that are coming across our borders to do work no one else wants so you can have vegetables, landscaping and other products or services at roughly 65% of what you'd pay if American citizens provided same...I think a far better solution would be to decriminalize workers who come in to do a decent days work for wages no one else seems willing to work for. (And require them to have a working understanding of the English language prior to entry). Griswold: What do you think would happen if the minimum wage was raised to a point where citizens would do the work that illegals do now. Would there still be jobs here to entice them to cross the boarder? thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 2:55:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus I am talking about immigration law. If a person doesn’t have permission from the federal government to be here, their presence on US soil make them criminals due to the fact that they have violated the laws of this country. It’s very cut and dry. What you want, and what it is, is not the same thing. But you made another point for my position on this subject. How do we know that these criminals are not also pedophiles, rapists and murders? All the more reason to sure up the borders so some nut cant boat to the coast under the cover of darkness and rape and beat your grandmother to death, all for what few gold fillings are left in her dying mouth. Its a good point...thanks for helping me make it mine. EgrosumDominus: I am having a little trouble with your scenario of someone coming by boat in the dark to mug someones grandmother for the gold fillings in her teeth. If you have a boat sufficient to get here then I should think that mugging grandma would not pay for your fuel. Then there is the question of where you park this boat. If you are in a harbor there is no anonymity in the harbor. A boat big enough to get here and get back home probably would not beach very well. Sounds a lot like a story I heard another Texan tell about weapons of mass deception, it seems somewhat less than plausible. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 3:06:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus quote: ORIGINAL: leakylee considering that a large majority of them came here against thier will? not to sure that you arent trying to sell a box of mismarked oranges. oh, but wait, what i am saying isnt politically correct again. my bad. lee What in the hell are you talking about...Thats makes no danm sense at all. "large majority of them came here against thier will?" Who the hell are you talking about? EgosumDominus: I dunno maybe she is talking about the millions of slaves that were brought here illegally and against their will. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 3:13:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle "yes illegal is illegal" As a general response to this concept. Hiding Jews from the Nazi Occupation in France was "illegal", would those who blindly advocate obedience to the law, need to answer this question, would you have obeyed the law and reported those Jews, assuredly sending them to their deaths? We are talking about sending people back to their home country...not putting them in ovens. Find a better analogy. Fargle loves apples and oranges. This from a person who is on record as saying that raping prisoners is justifiable? I always keep your statements in mind when considering your opinions on my integrity. There he goes again. Fargle, I said that it's alright to rape prisoners in jail if it would save others' lives. They're lives would be saved and the prisoners would have a sore ass but still be alive. And what in hell does that other thread have to do with (this) one? popeye1250: I would appear from your line of reasoning that if the North Vietnamese had felt that our POW's had information that would save the lives of their people you would figure it would be ok for them to butt fuck John McCain and his compatriots at the Hanoi Hilton. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Immigration crackdown, its about time. (5/19/2007 3:20:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: understeer quote: ORIGINAL: NewDom12 My big problem is when people say that the Mexicans are escaping a life of hardships and crime. That they are trying to better their lives because back in Mexico the standard way of living is deplorable. So I am supposed to welcome them with open arms because their life "sucks"... um no, courtesy and compassion are not reasons to disobey laws that benefit citizens and or hurt them. Illegal Aliens ARE NOT CITIZENS! But Why do we continue to give them all the Benefits of Citizenship? In Aprill over two Million Illegal Aliens tried to pay taxes and About half were able to, because of Loopholes. But when the IRS Finds a Illegal attempting to pay taxes, they are neither Mandated to or willing to report this to the Immigration Department and i want to know why? And again, I say get rid of the entitlement programs, and instead start public works projects. No entitlement, no free ride, I'd like to see how many illegal immigrants would like to work for such low wages without our government supporting them. I am unsure just which federal,state or county services these illegal aliens are accessing for which they do not pay? Could you enlighten me please?

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