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Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 8:47:10 AM

LightHeartedMaam

Posts: 296
Joined: 5/12/2007
Status: offline

~Now we have death by Bush?

A young bride of one year lost her husband, who she met in 2nd grade, in Iraq a few months ago.

She is joining the Army because she feels she wants to help by being a medic. She feels if she can save one person from the emotional pain she is going through it will be worth it.

She says she had cried all she could. She has until June 11th to reconsider her enlistment.

We are now enlisting severely depressed to fight in this war. Talk about *opportunists (*meaning recruiters).
I wonder whats next?

_____________________________

Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that it seems I have more patience. Turns out, that I just don't give a sh*t.

Post #: 1

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:00:25 AM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

You HAVE to be depressed to join this 'war' {said tongue in cheek}.

What next is they will start the draft; we will have 16yr olds fighting in no time' our troops keep getting killed, we send more over, those get killed, we bring them back to their families in body bags, send more over. Vicious cycle.

How much longer til the election??

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to LightHeartedMaam)

Post #: 2

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:05:59 AM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

Greetings

Both Master and I are in the Marines. I voluntarily signed up for a second tour. I may not always agree with what our CiC does or says; but I don't regret one moment spent in service.

The young lady you speak of in your post. How do you know it is out of depression that she enlisted? Perhaps she feels that this is the way to honor her husbands memory; by contributing to something that he believed in.

Many join the military for different reasons; why should the fact that she lost her husband make her reason any less noble?

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to LightHeartedMaam)

Post #: 3

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:11:02 AM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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"Many join the military for different reasons; why should the fact that she lost her husband make her reason any less noble?"

i don't think it's an issue about nobility......more about a situation where recruitment is so low for an unpopular war that it seems the bar is being lowered.
If a government is supposed to reflect the will of the people shouldn't the said government take a hint now and then?

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 4

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:14:08 AM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

i don't think it's an issue about nobility......more about a situation where recruitment is so low for an unpopular war that it seems the bar is being lowered.
If a government is supposed to reflect the will of the people shouldn't the said government take a hint now and then?

Greetings philosophy

Who is to say that the young lady was not in the process of enlisting anyway? How do we know the bar was lowered?

The OP provided no link for the statement that the young lady was depressed, or that the recruiters took advantage of a situation.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 5

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:18:55 AM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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Everything you say is true jauntyone.......but it holds true for the opposites also......we have no evidence that she wasn't depressed either. It is a matter of record though that recruitment targets were lowered in order to make the percentages look better though. It is also a matter of record that it is an unpopular war. Should the current regime in the US recognise these things as warning signs or signals to carry on as they've been doing?

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 6

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:28:13 AM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

Everything you say is true jauntyone.......but it holds true for the opposites also......we have no evidence that she wasn't depressed either. It is a matter of record though that recruitment targets were lowered in order to make the percentages look better though. It is also a matter of record that it is an unpopular war. Should the current regime in the US recognise these things as warning signs or signals to carry on as they've been doing?

Greetings philosophy

you are correct that the opposite holds true also. I will also not argue that the requirements for enlistment in the past years has dropped considerably. And, I will add that I do agree that the military SHOULD uphold certain standards of enlistment.

I can not agree with the popular opinion that this is an unpopular war though. Unpopular for whom? Those not enlisted? Those enlisted? Both?

Perhaps because I feel the need to defend those in service; but, I have yet to hear a soldier say that what we are doing is wrong. I have however, heard many on the civilian side state that the war is a waste of time.

I do not want to get into another 'who is right and who is wrong' debate and scenario

I just felt that the OP was wrong to state what she did, how she did, with no supporting evidence to back it up.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 7

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:35:07 AM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

I can not agree with the popular opinion that this is an unpopular war though. Unpopular for whom? Those not enlisted? Those enlisted? Both?

Perhaps because I feel the need to defend those in service; but, I have yet to hear a soldier say that what we are doing is wrong. I have however, heard many on the civilian side state that the war is a waste of time.

just two quick points.......i don't believe that there is any need to see if it is the general public or the military who find the current war doesn' gel with their idea of what the US ought to be about. If it is a popular opinion it is just that...popular opinion.

Secondly, it is awkward for serving military personnel to openly criticise the war without crossing legal lines. So i wouldn't expect any military types to come right out and say if they disagree. However, there are enough ex-military types who have, to suggest that even inside the forces opinion is split.

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 8

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:39:19 AM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

Fact - this is NOT a war, congress has NOT declaired a war since WWII {i went back and did research}; this 'thing' is what it is, my generations Vietnam.

Considering that the recruiters in my area KEEP trying to get me to join {hell has not frozen over yet}, they must be in some pain; thank goodness for caller ID. In my are we have lot MORE troops than anyone else, CUSD {Clovis Unified School District} has lost 6 at last count, and about 24 in the valley.

I did get wind of the same article as the OP, when I find it, I will repost the article or link. I do not think its as uncommon though.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 9

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:50:46 AM

LightHeartedMaam

Posts: 296
Joined: 5/12/2007
Status: offline

jauntyone,

Have ever lost ANYTHING you cherished deeply to a tragedy?

How long did it take you to think clearly?

_____________________________

Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that it seems I have more patience. Turns out, that I just don't give a sh*t.

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 10

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:06:48 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

Greetings

Both Master and I are in the Marines. I voluntarily signed up for a second tour. I may not always agree with what our CiC does or says; but I don't regret one moment spent in service.

The young lady you speak of in your post. How do you know it is out of depression that she enlisted? Perhaps she feels that this is the way to honor her husbands memory; by contributing to something that he believed in.

Many join the military for different reasons; why should the fact that she lost her husband make her reason any less noble?

I wish you well

melissa

How do you handle it when the Commander in Chief lies?

Nothing in the Constitution grants ANYONE in the government of the United States the authority to lie.

If someone in the service LIES, how are they punished?

Beyond that, when the Commander in Chief lies are FELONIES, how is that handled? Is he *worthy* of any honor or respect?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/29/2007 10:08:01 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 11

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:16:36 AM

philosophy

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Joined: 2/15/2004
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...thing is FB, if someone lies to you then it doesn't necessarily negate all other obligations to them. Serving military, i believe, do not have the same right to criticise government as civilians.
You or i have the luxury of totally free speech........ for the military to speak out, it could be considered a mild form of mutiny.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 12

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:27:58 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...thing is FB, if someone lies to you then it doesn't necessarily negate all other obligations to them. Serving military, i believe, do not have the same right to criticise government as civilians.
You or i have the luxury of totally free speech........ for the military to speak out, it could be considered a mild form of mutiny.

This isn't about Free Speech, It's about alleged felons holding high office.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 13

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:30:55 AM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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It may well be about the conduct of felons in high office for you FB...and all power to your elbow, i say......however, for a serving military type there are other considerations when it comes to challenging the authority of the CIC. As i said before, it could be seen as mutiny for them to do what is a basic right for you or i.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 14

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:37:05 AM

DementedGirl

Posts: 172
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

You HAVE to be depressed to join this 'war' {said tongue in cheek}.

What next is they will start the draft; we will have 16yr olds fighting in no time' our troops keep getting killed, we send more over, those get killed, we bring them back to their families in body bags, send more over. Vicious cycle.

How much longer til the election??

That will never happen.

_____________________________

DementedGirl

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved. - Helen Keller

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 15

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:40:38 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

There will never be a draft for this war, Republicans only support other people dying, the second their is any threat to their yellow asses, they will end this war.

(in reply to DementedGirl)

Post #: 16

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:44:36 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

It may well be about the conduct of felons in high office for you FB...and all power to your elbow, i say......however, for a serving military type there are other considerations when it comes to challenging the authority of the CIC. As i said before, it could be seen as mutiny for them to do what is a basic right for you or i.

So HONOR and INTEGRITY don't matter to the armed forces then?

I mean, if it's perfectly ok for alleged felons to NOT be held accountable, how can the armed forces *EXPECT* anyone to respect them?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 17

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:45:03 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

Perhaps because I feel the need to defend those in service; but, I have yet to hear a soldier say that what we are doing is wrong. I have however, heard many on the civilian side state that the war is a waste of time.

I just wanted to address this one point. I watched Sixty Minutes this week where they have been following the same infantry out of Iowa since the war began, and it was absolutely fascinating. It wasn't about whether the war was wrong or right but really just showed how it was for both the people enlisted as well as for their families. However there were in fact soldiers (a few of them) who felt that they were not going to re-enlist because they felt the war was really the wrong decision.

There are also associations forming for current and former soldiers against the war such as:

Iraq Veterans against the War: http://www.ivaw.org/
Veterans against the Iraq War: http://www.vaiw.org/

C~

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 5/29/2007 10:48:35 AM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 18

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:49:11 AM

philosophy

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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

It may well be about the conduct of felons in high office for you FB...and all power to your elbow, i say......however, for a serving military type there are other considerations when it comes to challenging the authority of the CIC. As i said before, it could be seen as mutiny for them to do what is a basic right for you or i.

So HONOR and INTEGRITY don't matter to the armed forces then?

I mean, if it's perfectly ok for alleged felons to NOT be held accountable, how can the armed forces *EXPECT* anyone to respect them?

Yup, it's a moral dilemma alright. No-one ever said that all ethical problems are easily worked out. This is one of the tricky ones.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 19

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:51:49 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Well, the Armed Forces shouldn't bitch about not getting support, if they're UNWORTHY of any respect.

Every day Steven Dale Green and his co-child-rapists, breathe the same air good, honest folks breath, is an insult to the word "Justice".

Bush is just another example of the Militaries UNWILLINGNESS to enforce discipline. And their subsequent UNWORTHINESS of our respect.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 20

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