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RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 12:32:27 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

" i just see PC Brigade as all those who say you cant do this or cant say that. "
...................................
mother to child....."don't stick that fork in the power outlet"

child to mother..."bloody PC brigade"

.............

government health avisory...."don't drive drunk"

pompous driver......."bloody PC brigade"

......i'm not sure your definition works....


LOL i can see what you mean, as im sure you can see what i mean.
Not sure i would have said "Bloody" anything to my mother as that normally meant eating soap.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 12:36:15 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		...thing is, the term PC is very tricky to define, so the term 'PC brigade' becomes something of a moving target, easily misused or used simply to denigrate those who one doesn't agree with.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 12:42:34 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Stella - I just thought how damned funny it is, that we two - who would no doubt be the butt of many a Manning joke, are about the only ones sad at his passing.

Funny old world.

E 


I agree with you, LadyEllen.  The problem I have with people who dislike his humor is that it is rather ironic on a BDSM website.

His humour may not have been your humour, but it seems to me that we should honour his ability do his thing, because he and other people do enjoy it.  In the same sense that while something may not be your kink, that is no reason to ostracize the practioners of it.

Sinergy


Oh fuck that.

Why is it ironic to state a dislike for someone's sense of humour on a BDSM board? I'm not seeing the connection. By extension, are you saying you find everyone on the planet amusing?

People offer opinions on what they like and dislike. What next? A person shouldn't say television is shit in order to spare the producers' feelings?


Damn.

How come you never talk to me like that?


Lack of opportunity, Marie.

Did Bernard Manning draw you into this thread, or was it the potential for a discussion on death?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 1:48:09 PM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I've no problem with that, but what about labelling people the 'PC brigade'? From where I'm standing it's simply vague, meaningless rhetoric.



It's a stereotype. To give you another example. Someone here could write 'thick Northerners' - and you and I could become offended, but we would be offended only if we felt the term thick Northerners applied to us.

There's such a saying. "If the cap fits...." Well, I listened to Bernard Manning and I listen to some of the other insulting derogatory references towards people like me and I have decided that the cap doesn't fit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Britain is not politically correct, never has been and never will be. Who are the brigade, then? It's fashionable to jump on the "PC brigade" bandwagon. It has no credibility in my book, and is really a load of old bollocks designed for the sort of mindset at which your original comment was aimed i.e. those craving group conformity.


I disagree with this. Who are the brigade? The media. At the moment it's such working class heroes as John Gaunt and Mike Mendoza, spouting outdated right wing values (as seen in the press) and getting everyone all upset and riled up about the socially unacceptable people in society - asylum seekers, people on benefits, single mothers, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Edited to add: the lack of substance in British politics today is more of a problem for me than the BNP, or the Conservatives, or any of the tough on crime, tough on youth, ban immigrants etc mindset. It's this mindless "PC brigade" type drivel that passes for political discussion.


Yeah, and how many times have we been down this road? There was Thatcher, John Major's 'Back to Basics', Tony Blair's 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.'

It's a bit like the old 50p glued to the pub floor joke, been there so many times but it's not funny any more.

It's not a lack of substance in British politics today, just a lack of interest. It's a political mafia married to the fatcat corporations and privatised firms, not interested in the people, outside of those who are still working and who may still have some disposable income left to do some spending and keep the economy going.

Ah yes, the myth of the 'great' British 'taxpayer' working so hard to pay for everything - prisons, schools, the NHS, people on benefits, asylum seekers, oh yes, they keep this country going. 'I'm a taxpayer' they bleat, as if its a major lifetime achievement. 'Good on you' says the media, 'you are one of us, you belong, you are not like the fat, ugly, lazy benefit pigs who use up all our money and cause old people to die on NHS waiting lists'.

PC - politically correct - you are expressing the correct political views, and responding to the hype, the media and the propaganda.

And do you know what? I'm not PC. I don't fall for all this bullshit and crap, because it IS bullshit and crap. If it was true that taxpayers keep the country going this country would have gone bankrupt years ago. How many people are working in the UK? How many of them are paying tax? Do you know how much it costs to run the NHS? To support our forces in other countries? Prisons? Schools?

Truth is the 'great' British taxpayer is almost as heavily subsidised as everyone else, and unless they're spending disposable income and keeping the economy going, they're paying for nobody. But try telling that to this PC brigade and they will get extremely upset. A bit like telling a small kid Santa Claus doesn't exist any more, isn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
It's meaningless and a fair example of a society fixated with packaging at the expense of substance. At least the BNP believe in something of substance, I can handle that.


No, this is a society fixated with saving a few quid, if the truth be known. Doesn't matter if it's an employer hiring Eastern European migrant workers for minimum wages, shopping in Argos, the family with the Polish au pair, buying and selling on eBay, at boot sales, shopping at Asda, or trying to get out of paying more income tax or National Insurance contributions.

It still is very much the 'f**k you Jack, I'm alright' and 'me me me' society of the 1980's and Thatcher who has fallen for every single gimmick and cheap election promise from John Major and Blair.. not once, not twice, but three times.

And meanwhile the mortgage has been remortgaged and been consolidated with other debts, the privatised companies took over because it was supposed to be more competitive, cheaper and better but from what I can see it's much more expensive and worse.

You go for the BNP if you feel it's the step forward.

Personally I'd rather pay a few quid more and get some decent values back.

But barring a revolution, there's fat chance of that.

< Message edited by stella40 -- 6/19/2007 2:37:16 PM >

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 2:01:46 PM   
dogthing


Posts: 98
Joined: 9/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

No, I have a sense of humour. I also realise that what's said on the stage is an act and not necessarily what the comedian thinks.


<quote>"I am an admirer of Adolf Hitler," he told the Sunday People. "Not everything about him, of course. I deplore his gas chambers and Gestapo as much as anyone, but I admire him for the things he got right, which I reckon was about 50 per cent." </quote>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,2105926,00.html

One can still be genuinely funny while having objectional personal beliefs, but the way that  Manning used minority characters in his jokes was dodgy. Did you notice how they were usually being beaten up or knifed or lynched or being burned to death? It felt as if he was buying gratitude from his audience cheaply by pandering to fantasies in which people from those groups got killed or lynched, and it felt sleazy. If another comedian told a stereotype joke, like "Small house in my road burned down yesterday. Terrible thing. Fifty asians dead", it would be a joke about how some large asian families pack what we'd consider to be ridiculous numbers of people into a small house. It becomes a culture-clash joke. If Manning told the same joke, with the punchline "Fifty pakis dead", you'd almost expect someone in the audience to punch the air and shout "Yeah!". It'd become a fantasy  about asians being killed. You'd see how he was working the audience, and you'd remember that there were still people having  petrol poured through their letterboxes by the BNP, by people very like some of the people in the audience, and suddenly it wouldn't seem so funny.

Manning knew his audience and gave them what they wanted.

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 2:44:59 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dogthing

Manning knew his audience and gave them what they wanted.



Well put.

Dont like his jokes, make societal changes so his audience disappears, and he will either come up with new material or find a new line of work.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to dogthing)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 2:51:34 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

PC - politically correct - you are expressing the correct political views, and responding to the hype, the media and the propaganda.



Whose correct political views?

The conservatives? The left? The bloke next door? the status quo?

Taking your definition of political correctness, you could apply this to anyone.

The term political correctness is like moths to a lightbulb.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 3:08:14 PM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

PC - politically correct - you are expressing the correct political views, and responding to the hype, the media and the propaganda.



Whose correct political views?

The conservatives? The left? The bloke next door? the status quo?

Taking your definition of political correctness, you could apply this to anyone.

The term political correctness is like moths to a lightbulb.


The media. The media which tells people how to vote prior to a General Election but gets people all upset afterwards. And of course whoever soaks up these views and spouts them second-hand and verbatim.

Traditionally this could be seen as a typical Sun reader, it could be the News of the World reader, it might even be a Guardian reader, but it's that person who doesn't think but merely spouts the claptrap genuinely believing themselves to be part of Middle England and think 'what everyone else thinks'.

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 3:30:18 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

Stella40
Truth is the 'great' British taxpayer is almost as heavily subsidised as everyone else, and unless they're spending disposable income and keeping the economy going, they're paying for nobody. But try telling that to this PC brigade and they will get extremely upset. A bit like telling a small kid Santa Claus doesn't exist any more, isn't it?

Stella I think your shoes must have been hurting you when you wrote this nonsense.
Aproaching 50% of the people employed in the UK have jobs financed by the taxpayer. Why my hero NG is one of them and I expect you, as an artist, are one also. We are on a merry go round to oblivion. Unsustainable, unworkable, I think I am going to take up thieving, very little chance of getting caught and a definate growth industry.

The PC brigade actually want to spend more of my money, I say, FU, I want it myself.
I dont care about Health and Safety officials who say conkers can be dangerous !

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 3:42:18 PM   
Carrianna


Posts: 273
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		Regarding original message, brilliant post!  Loved the ending, made me laugh out loud!!

This forum has also made for a good read... 

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 8:29:29 PM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

Stella40
Truth is the 'great' British taxpayer is almost as heavily subsidised as everyone else, and unless they're spending disposable income and keeping the economy going, they're paying for nobody. But try telling that to this PC brigade and they will get extremely upset. A bit like telling a small kid Santa Claus doesn't exist any more, isn't it?

Stella I think your shoes must have been hurting you when you wrote this nonsense.
Aproaching 50% of the people employed in the UK have jobs financed by the taxpayer. Why my hero NG is one of them and I expect you, as an artist, are one also. We are on a merry go round to oblivion. Unsustainable, unworkable, I think I am going to take up thieving, very little chance of getting caught and a definate growth industry.

The PC brigade actually want to spend more of my money, I say, FU, I want it myself.
I dont care about Health and Safety officials who say conkers can be dangerous !



You would be surprised.

Much of the work I do attracts funding from the European Union. Much of my work so far in the UK has been financed by the Mike Cohen Fund and others.

However I'm working on a project which relies not on funding or sponsorship but generates its own income from ticket sales and participation costs.

Twice I've been 'awarded' Arts Council grants which have not been paid out 'due to government policy'. So yes, middle finger time. Trying to get funding is soul-destroying, difficult, and unreliable and you end up spending your time doing it.

But while I stand by what I say that the British taxpayer doesn't finance everything, I also feel that the British taxpayer pays a lot of money but doesn't get much in return. Quite often they also have to fight to receive what they do pay for.

Basic healthcare as an example. Blair recently asserted that more money goes into the NHS than ever before, but it has to to pay for all the managers, trusts, foundations, committees and bureacracy. This doesn't necessarily mean better health care.

I call my doctor's surgery.

Receptionist: Good morning can I help you?
Me: I'd like to book an appointment with a doctor.
Receptionist: I'm sorry, we don't have any appointments with the doctor. Is it urgent?
Me: Well yes it is actually.
Receptionist: I can book you an appointment in two weeks if that is okay..

Public transport is another example. Reading lies to the west of London. One privatised railway company will charge you £20 for a return ticket, and another will charge you £56 (this is the shorter route).

I mean let's face it Seeksfemslave, if the truth be known if you did take up thieving you wouldn't be committing a crime, just competing with the government, majority of privatised companies and banks.

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/19/2007 11:26:26 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

PC - politically correct - you are expressing the correct political views, and responding to the hype, the media and the propaganda.



Whose correct political views?

The conservatives? The left? The bloke next door? the status quo?

Taking your definition of political correctness, you could apply this to anyone.

The term political correctness is like moths to a lightbulb.


The media. The media which tells people how to vote prior to a General Election but gets people all upset afterwards. And of course whoever soaks up these views and spouts them second-hand and verbatim.

Traditionally this could be seen as a typical Sun reader, it could be the News of the World reader, it might even be a Guardian reader, but it's that person who doesn't think but merely spouts the claptrap genuinely believing themselves to be part of Middle England and think 'what everyone else thinks'.


If your issue is group conformity, you should have a think about the term "PC brigade". It is a term for those wishing to conform to a shared position. As it is a meaningless, empty phrase, then it is a shared position of no substance. In other words, sheep herding in the same direction.

When you label people the "PC brigade", your only achievement will be to stifle discussion.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/20/2007 12:56:49 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Stella40
Twice I've been 'awarded' Arts Council grants which have not been paid out 'due to government policy'. So yes, middle finger time. Trying to get funding is soul-destroying, difficult, and unreliable and you end up spending your time doing it.


Just before I return the middle finger with two of my own may I ask you why as an "artist" you think you deserve a grant at all ? Why damage your soul doing such things when you could work for a living "like wot I did"

Just another point to no one in particular, in my posts I have often griped at the left wing bias of the BBC. Well the BBC has just commisioned and published a report saying.....wait for it...the BBC is politically biased. Their own report.
I smell a bit of defensive psychology, you see Stella they want to maintain the grant system that costs us all so much  but gives the BBC employees, especially top management such priviliged feather bedded lives.


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/20/2007 2:03:17 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Carrianna

Regarding original message, brilliant post!  Loved the ending, made me laugh out loud!!

This forum has also made for a good read... 


Thanks Carrianna - I think youre the only person to have picked up on my Bernard Manning style final line in the OP. Just the sort of comment he'd have made, and laughed at even if its about himself. Mind you, he'd have had a better comeback!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Carrianna)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/20/2007 2:14:51 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

If your issue is group conformity, you should have a think about the term "PC brigade". It is a term for those wishing to conform to a shared position. As it is a meaningless, empty phrase, then it is a shared position of no substance. In other words, sheep herding in the same direction.

When you label people the "PC brigade", your only achievement will be to stifle discussion.


Good morning folks..... i dont think its stifled discussion here. Everytime i hear the words PC mentioned anywhere, it opens not closes discussions, imo.
My own view is there are way too many terms bandied about to generalise groups of like minded people, yet not everyone is like minded in every aspect Its far to easy to lump people into boxes.

As a submissive male i have been arguing about people telling me what to do.... Me Bad ... Lol


Edits to add  "Its far to easy to lump people into boxes." Yes i see i have shot myself in the foot.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 6/20/2007 2:18:33 AM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/20/2007 2:33:55 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I cant believe this thread is still going!

Now, the whole PC thing - I see it as the sort of sensitivity we needed once, gone mad. Yes, there was a time when society as a whole was openly racist, sexist and all sort of others ists. Yes we needed to do something about that, and we did. Now though, that agenda is running rampant with bans on words like "blackboard", which believe it or not is called a blackboard because its black. It doesnt mean that this board is anything less or more than an unpainted board or indeed a board painted some other colour, its just painted black so that chalk marks upon it will be easily discerned. I tend to agree with Seeks a little on this, in that we have far too many people employed at public expense pursuing all this - they clearly dont have enough to do, but I also fancy that we are subject to the middle class chattering types here as lampooned on shows like Bremner, Bird & Fortune - they know diddly squat about the real world, yet feel more than qualified to "help". Meanwhile, in the real world, there are real problems going unhelped for want of the expense of feeding the PC monster - of what use is it to ban the n word, when young black boys are known to be falling behind in school, with little or nothing done to alleviate that?

The thing is, we are all different, but we ought to be all entitled to the same as part of one nation. No one should expect special treatment or cosseting, reward or incentive or indeed neglect, abuse or ill treatment because of what they are. The only valid distinction to make at all is in terms of an individual's actions. But we pursue this endless drive towards sensitivity, which culminates in the idea that it doesnt matter what we do, as long as we are respected for being x, y, z. Thus its perfectly OK to let young black boys fall behind in school, because thats a cultural influence, which must not be touched. Thus its also perfectly OK to allow young Muslim women to be threatened with murder for loving the wrong man, because thats a cultural thing which must be respected. This is the multi-cultural branch of the PC movement, equally out of control and damaging in that it inhibits any interaction and assimilation - and that goes for the natives too, who must assimilate their new compatriots beyond what they eat - by preaching and enforcing separate identity.

The same forces are at work in the nanny state - we smoke too much, we drive too fast, we drink too much, we must do this, we must do that etc. Yes, we have a lot of social problems and there was a time when these forces were achieving something in that direction, but now they have gotten out of hand and are infringing not on unacceptable behaviour - for which as Seeks mentioned earlier, the law exists - but on personal freedoms. Smoking was the first target, but now drinking is the next. Shooting was the first target, then hunting with dogs, and now fishing is next on the agenda for a ban. I see that one town is bringing in 20mph speed limits - at enormous cost, yet will anyone take notice when we have a TV ad running saying "its 30mph for a reason"? And coming up next folks is the ban on violent pornography - that means your photo album of that party last week.

The question is, do we really need all this claptrap, endless documentation and regulation, hordes of publicly funded people and so on, for us all to get the idea that we should be nice to one another? And is all this really more important and more worthy of our efforts, than sorting out the real problems we have?

E



_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/20/2007 2:53:12 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

LadyE
Yes, there was a time when society as a whole was openly racist, sexist and all sort of others ists.

Nothing has changed much, not in "normal" everyday life anyway ! The genteel classes are more discrete in expressing their prejudices. Thassal
I have just had some builders "in" and some of the things they said  shocked even me and I'm no multiculturalist. I dont think it should be illegal tho' because they expose themselves for what they are.

I have just returned from a bike ride and I did not wear helmet chinguard earplugs elbow/knee protectors and I haven't got a bell on my bike.
My life will soon be in tatters tho' because reducing the drink drive limit to half a pint is on the cards.

With regard to agreeing with me a little LadyE I think you should let yourself go and agree with me completely !
I 'll bet you'll feel better if you do.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 6/20/2007 2:59:27 AM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/20/2007 3:22:09 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I would agree with you fully Seeks, but some of the things you post I find rather disagreeable.

Regarding your racist builders - I dont believe we can entirely extinguish racism unless we mix and see that "them" and "us" are actually more alike than we are different, and in that endeavour all this multi-cultural stuff is counter productive. Maybe though, if we cant change people's ideas, in my experience we can alter the expression of those ideas - and I fully take your point that whilst few will use racist language in public, most will express it in private when they feel safe to do so, as with your builders. Were there no distinction, or at least much less distinction between groups, then its my belief that with "them and us" gone, there'd be little reason to express racist ideas.

I have telephoned the local authorities about your foolish bicycle riding, and your reeducation at the Nanny Knows Best College for Wayward Adults Who Think They Know Better, begins tomorrow morning.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/20/2007 4:18:32 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Thank You LadyE, I expect you did the right thing and maybe a Nanny is just what I need. A strict one dressed in rubber lol

Disagreeable ? Moi ? surely not !!

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Bernard Manning dies - 6/20/2007 4:23:02 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Thank You LadyE, I expect you did the right thing and maybe a Nanny is just what I need. A strict one dressed in rubber lol



I'd oblige, but rubber gets so hot, you know?

Now, post something better or its straight to bed for you

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 100
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