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RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/7/2007 11:11:59 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline 		It's not so much the attire that I find intriguing. More the mindset and dedication to service through the years of training. Although I've been to see a traditional kabuki theatre play that I found quite interesting.



_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to Jinger)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 5:29:49 AM   
YesMistressIrish


Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

It's not so much the attire that I find intriguing. More the mindset and dedication to service through the years of training. Although I've been to see a traditional kabuki theatre play that I found quite interesting.



I love most things Asian, all the wonderful historical cultural (spelling) of  Chinese, Japanese, and several more. I have plenty of Asian art and furniture. It would be great to get men trained up to be this way. I would feel very passionate about doing this rt.: Hold seminars to train them, website, videos, etc. and I have many talents to teach. My subbie in Fla found a bunch of stuff on male geishas (Thanks Polite sub for what you did also!), and he is still searching. So far Male Geisha seems to be the only title out there, although many think it is just for entertainment and we are looking for 24/7 male geishas.
 
Jo,
It would be great to chat with you soon!
 
M Irish
edited for spelling, etc...sheesh

< Message edited by YesMistressIrish -- 7/8/2007 5:35:19 AM >

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 11:22:05 AM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline 		Irish...looking forward to chatting soon as well as dinner. Hopefully my new schedule won't take too much readjustment and we can schedule something once you return from your travels. Have fun on your ride and stay safe. Oh how I envy you. Haven't been on a long bike road trip in far too many years.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to YesMistressIrish)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 11:58:33 AM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		I'm not sure I'd be all that attracted to the idea of being a male Geisha. Having studied Japanese culture extensively, it just doesn't seem to fit with the type of submission and submissive lifestyle I think would be appropriate. Part of the problem is that what is being discussed here is really badly presented as what Geisha are. Even a lot of the PBS specials and books on geisha are all offshoots of some of the misinformation that has been passed down over the years, placing Geisha in the constructs of how western society observes it.

There's a brilliant book that covers a large focus on this subject called "The Asian Mystique" by Sheridan Prasso, a woman who is probably one of the few western experts on women in Asian cultures. As she points out, we continue to perpetuate the same stereotypes EVEN when we are trying to deconstruct the stereotypes.

In your first post in this thread, when you described what you were looking for in this thought fantasy, I didn't envision a geisha. Instead, I envisioned the charismatic, chivalrous rogue. I emphasize the "chivalrous" part because a charismatic rogue would definitely NOT be what was described. That's more what I've always desired to be, even if the road has not always been that obvious.


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<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


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The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 12:25:16 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
Part of the problem is that what is being discussed here is really badly presented as what Geisha are.


Really, very intriguing. In what way do you find that to be true?

quote:

There's a brilliant book that covers a large focus on this subject called "The Asian Mystique" by Sheridan Prasso, a woman who is probably one of the few western experts on women in Asian cultures. As she points out, we continue to perpetuate the same stereotypes EVEN when we are trying to deconstruct the stereotypes.
 

I'll be sure to look for it. Thank you.

quote:

In your first post in this thread, when you described what you were looking for in this thought fantasy, I didn't envision a geisha. Instead, I envisioned the charismatic, chivalrous rogue. I emphasize the "chivalrous" part because a charismatic rogue would definitely NOT be what was described. That's more what I've always desired to be, even if the road has not always been that obvious.


Hmmm. Personally rogue has always reflected a rather negative connotation for me. Looking at the entry in Webster's would substantiate that for the most part.
rogue  n.  

  • An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.
  • One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.
  • A wandering beggar; a vagrant.
  • A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd.
  • An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard
    Aside from the second definition, which would fit in with your usage via the qualifying adjectives, I seem to see a pattern of rogue being quite the opposite in regard to the attributes I defined earlier in the OP. Again, I will reference the mindset, training and intent towards service I've found as being the basis of Geisha.

    As always, I enjoy your posts littlesarbonne and am interested in your expanding further on the extenuating comments I've made in reply. Since it's my post I can hijack it momentarily if I wish to. Best of luck on the comic.

    _____________________________

    Ms Jo

    She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
    How glittering they shone -
    And every One unbared a Nerve
    Or wantoned with a Bone -

    I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

    (in reply to littlesarbonn)
    • Profile   Post #: 45
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 12:30:48 PM   
    DSwriter


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 2/14/2007
    From: New Hope, PA
    Status: offline     		A Domme friend of mine sent this to me.  Sorry if it's not in line with the geisha subject, but it does have to do with what it means to be a good 'submisisve male wife.'

    This was taken directly from the 1955 “The Good Wife Guide”.  My friend  changed all the pronouns so that the woman is dominant and the male submissive. She calls it her "Good Gent’s Guide."
    • Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal ready, on time for Her return. This is a way of letting Her know that you have been thinking about Her and are concerned about Her needs. Most women are hungry when they come home and the prospect of a good meal (especially her favorite dish) is part of the warm welcome needed.
    • Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so you'll be refreshed when She arrives. Touch up your cologne, comb your hair and be fresh-looking. She has just been with a lot of work-weary people.
    • Be a little happy and a little more interesting for Her. Her boring day may need a lift and one of your duties is to provide it.
    • Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your Lady arrives.
    • Gather up things that are scattered about and then run a dust cloth over the tables.
    • Over the cooler months of the year, you should prepare and light a fire for Her to unwind by. Your lady will feel She has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. After all, catering for Her comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.
    • Be happy to see Her.
    • Greet Her with a warm smile and show sincerity in your desire to please Her.
    • Listen to Her. You may have a dozen important things to tell Her, but the moment of Her arrival is not the time. Let Her talk first - remember, Her topics of conversation are more important than yours.
    • Make the evening Hers. Never complain if She comes home late or goes out to dinner, or other places of entertainment without you. Instead, try to understand Her world of strain and pressure and Her very real need to be at home and relax.
    • Your goal: Try to make sure your home is a place of peace, order, and tranquility where your Lady can renew Herself in body and spirit.
    • Don't greet Her with complaints or problems.
    • Don't complain if She's late home for dinner or even if She stays out all night. Count this as minor compared to what She might have gone through that day.
    • Make Her comfortable. Have Her lean back in a comfortable chair or have Her lie down in the bedroom. Have a cool or warm drink ready for Her.
    • Arrange Her pillow and offer to take off Her shoes. Speak in a low, soothing and pleasant voice.
    • Don't ask Her questions about Her actions or question Her judgment or integrity. Remember, She is the master of the house and as such will always exercise Her will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question Her.
    • A good gent always knows his place.


    < Message edited by DSwriter -- 7/8/2007 12:32:48 PM >

    (in reply to littlesarbonn)
    Profile   Post #: 46
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 1:07:37 PM   
    littlesarbonn


    Posts: 1710
    Joined: 12/3/2005
    From: Stockton, California
    Status: offline     		Yeah, those definitions for "rogue" is why I rarely use a dictionary to explain an ancient concept. The rogue definitions given are how people use the word "today". Much like "geisha", if you use the dictionary, you're really not going to get the actual meaning of what constituted a geisha back then.

    The rogue to which I am referring is the middle ages type that is often seen more in the terms of the bard or the swashbuckler. This is the kind of person who would risk his life and well being all at the hopes of achieving the betterment of the woman to which he has pledged himself. That's why the word "chivalry" becomes really important. Your usual, run of the mill, rogue is the forerunner of what we'd call a thief. The chivalrous rogue is best seen in the actions of a Lancelot or a Perceval. Casting off the "knight" trappings, this is the kind of person to which I perceive a male being the kind of person you were seeking that is as dutiful as a geisha, but isn't about doing it for just money or a better station in society.

    The Japanese basic foundation usually points at the samurai, which I really don't think is what is being described in the original post. The samurai is generally more about serving one's lord and land than in anything to do with serving a woman. Yeah, you can exchange lord with lady, but there's still way too much baggage with the whole differences of men and women in a samurai's world that I don't think it would be appropriate. However, there is a strong tendency to gloss over the ronin samurai, which aside from some really westernized idealized movies, comes close to what I was thinking, but still has that whole gender problem going from the start.

    Anyway, I may have made it more confusing than when I started, but that's really all I feel like adding at this time.


    _____________________________

    <---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


    http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
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    (in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
    Profile   Post #: 47
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 1:10:23 PM   
    SDFemDom4cuck


    Posts: 2809
    Joined: 5/23/2005
    From: P'burgh PA
    Status: offline     		BINGO!

    I think it fits in quite well with My version of a Male Geisha and definitely My thoughts on a male wife. I do hope you won't mind my holding onto this and using it in future when I find the time to begin looking again. This really is absolutely spot on. I love it! Thnak you for sharing it.

    _____________________________

    Ms Jo

    She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
    How glittering they shone -
    And every One unbared a Nerve
    Or wantoned with a Bone -

    I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

    (in reply to DSwriter)
    Profile   Post #: 48
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 1:22:14 PM   
    SDFemDom4cuck


    Posts: 2809
    Joined: 5/23/2005
    From: P'burgh PA
    Status: offline     		Very interesting littlesarbonn (ugh I always want to add an "e" on the end of that). I found it thought provoking, which par for the course regarding your posts. Thank you. It does not add to further confusion on my part. Simply further food for thought. As always, I appreciate the addition of your thoughts to the mix.

    While I'm not trying define Geisha in a definitive sense. I'm looking more towards it being a wonderful concept in regard to the attributes, training and motivations to be found in a male wife. Again, it will be interesting to see if the book you mentioned previously will affect that conception one way or the other.

    _____________________________

    Ms Jo

    She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
    How glittering they shone -
    And every One unbared a Nerve
    Or wantoned with a Bone -

    I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

    (in reply to littlesarbonn)
    Profile   Post #: 49
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 1:41:31 PM   
    littlesarbonn


    Posts: 1710
    Joined: 12/3/2005
    From: Stockton, California
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

    Very interesting littlesarbonn (ugh I always want to add an "e" on the end of that). I found it thought provoking, which par for the course regarding your posts. Thank you. It does not add to further confusion on my part. Simply further food for thought. As always, I appreciate the addition of your thoughts to the mix.

    While I'm not trying define Geisha in a definitive sense. I'm looking more towards it being a wonderful concept in regard to the attributes, training and motivations to be found in a male wife. Again, it will be interesting to see if the book you mentioned previously will affect that conception one way or the other.


    If not, you can always beat mercilessly the person who recommended it. (looks back up the thread to see who that might be)


    _____________________________

    <---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


    http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
    The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

    (in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
    Profile   Post #: 50
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 1:51:13 PM   
    SDFemDom4cuck


    Posts: 2809
    Joined: 5/23/2005
    From: P'burgh PA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

    Very interesting littlesarbonn (ugh I always want to add an "e" on the end of that). I found it thought provoking, which par for the course regarding your posts. Thank you. It does not add to further confusion on my part. Simply further food for thought. As always, I appreciate the addition of your thoughts to the mix.

    While I'm not trying define Geisha in a definitive sense. I'm looking more towards it being a wonderful concept in regard to the attributes, training and motivations to be found in a male wife. Again, it will be interesting to see if the book you mentioned previously will affect that conception one way or the other.


    If not, you can always beat mercilessly the person who recommended it. (looks back up the thread to see who that might be)


    LOL amusing as always. Such a shame that casual play does little for Me.

    _____________________________

    Ms Jo

    She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
    How glittering they shone -
    And every One unbared a Nerve
    Or wantoned with a Bone -

    I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

    (in reply to littlesarbonn)
    Profile   Post #: 51
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 1:55:07 PM   
    littlesarbonn


    Posts: 1710
    Joined: 12/3/2005
    From: Stockton, California
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

    Very interesting littlesarbonn (ugh I always want to add an "e" on the end of that). I found it thought provoking, which par for the course regarding your posts. Thank you. It does not add to further confusion on my part. Simply further food for thought. As always, I appreciate the addition of your thoughts to the mix.

    While I'm not trying define Geisha in a definitive sense. I'm looking more towards it being a wonderful concept in regard to the attributes, training and motivations to be found in a male wife. Again, it will be interesting to see if the book you mentioned previously will affect that conception one way or the other.


    If not, you can always beat mercilessly the person who recommended it. (looks back up the thread to see who that might be)


    LOL amusing as always. Such a shame that casual play does little for Me.


    Me, too, but you have to sometimes play to the masses for comedy.


    _____________________________

    <---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


    http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
    The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

    (in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
    Profile   Post #: 52
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 1:58:08 PM   
    SDFemDom4cuck


    Posts: 2809
    Joined: 5/23/2005
    From: P'burgh PA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

    Very interesting littlesarbonn (ugh I always want to add an "e" on the end of that). I found it thought provoking, which par for the course regarding your posts. Thank you. It does not add to further confusion on my part. Simply further food for thought. As always, I appreciate the addition of your thoughts to the mix.

    While I'm not trying define Geisha in a definitive sense. I'm looking more towards it being a wonderful concept in regard to the attributes, training and motivations to be found in a male wife. Again, it will be interesting to see if the book you mentioned previously will affect that conception one way or the other.


    If not, you can always beat mercilessly the person who recommended it. (looks back up the thread to see who that might be)


    LOL amusing as always. Such a shame that casual play does little for Me.


    Me, too, but you have to sometimes play to the masses for comedy.


    Me? Play to the masses? Not ever, not even close. LOL

    _____________________________

    Ms Jo

    She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
    How glittering they shone -
    And every One unbared a Nerve
    Or wantoned with a Bone -

    I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

    (in reply to littlesarbonn)
    Profile   Post #: 53
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 1:59:34 PM   
    littlesarbonn


    Posts: 1710
    Joined: 12/3/2005
    From: Stockton, California
    Status: offline     		I meant me.

    _____________________________

    <---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


    http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
    The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

    (in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
    Profile   Post #: 54
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 2:12:53 PM   
    SDFemDom4cuck


    Posts: 2809
    Joined: 5/23/2005
    From: P'burgh PA
    Status: offline     		LOL well I always find you quite amusing and comedic.

    _____________________________

    Ms Jo

    She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
    How glittering they shone -
    And every One unbared a Nerve
    Or wantoned with a Bone -

    I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

    (in reply to littlesarbonn)
    Profile   Post #: 55
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 2:22:58 PM   
    SDFemDom4cuck


    Posts: 2809
    Joined: 5/23/2005
    From: P'burgh PA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

    Very interesting littlesarbonn (ugh I always want to add an "e" on the end of that). I found it thought provoking, which par for the course regarding your posts. Thank you. It does not add to further confusion on my part. Simply further food for thought. As always, I appreciate the addition of your thoughts to the mix.

    While I'm not trying define Geisha in a definitive sense. I'm looking more towards it being a wonderful concept in regard to the attributes, training and motivations to be found in a male wife. Again, it will be interesting to see if the book you mentioned previously will affect that conception one way or the other.


    If not, you can always beat mercilessly the person who recommended it. (looks back up the thread to see who that might be)


    LOL always amusing sarbonn. If only casual play did something for me.

    _____________________________

    Ms Jo

    She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
    How glittering they shone -
    And every One unbared a Nerve
    Or wantoned with a Bone -

    I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

    (in reply to littlesarbonn)
    Profile   Post #: 56
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 2:24:51 PM   
    ocilla


    Posts: 1764
    Joined: 6/12/2007
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

    I'm not sure I'd be all that attracted to the idea of being a male Geisha. Having studied Japanese culture extensively, it just doesn't seem to fit with the type of submission and submissive lifestyle I think would be appropriate. Part of the problem is that what is being discussed here is really badly presented as what Geisha are. Even a lot of the PBS specials and books on geisha are all offshoots of some of the misinformation that has been passed down over the years, placing Geisha in the constructs of how western society observes it.

    There's a brilliant book that covers a large focus on this subject called "The Asian Mystique" by Sheridan Prasso, a woman who is probably one of the few western experts on women in Asian cultures. As she points out, we continue to perpetuate the same stereotypes EVEN when we are trying to deconstruct the stereotypes.

    In your first post in this thread, when you described what you were looking for in this thought fantasy, I didn't envision a geisha. Instead, I envisioned the charismatic, chivalrous rogue. I emphasize the "chivalrous" part because a charismatic rogue would definitely NOT be what was described. That's more what I've always desired to be, even if the road has not always been that obvious.

    Thanks for adding your knowledge lil'sarbonn - I concur with you  - and I too like your explaination of rogue and chivalry - very appealing to me. Originally, I did not even read this thread because the concept just did not resonate with my knowledge of the Giesha which comes from being an inveterate researcher and some work I did in Japan.  I too am familiar with "The Asian Mystique" by Sheridan Prasso. And (get this), my r/t Japan experience is that as a chef I got to spend time there to introduce rasins as a savory item to the Japanese market.  I know kind of crazy - but I learned alot about the culture in the prosess which was fascinating.  I had some incredibly accomplished, intelligent and extremely well rounded (there was no doubt that they had extensive training in how to be accomodating yet classy) women assigned by the ministries to be at my every beck and call and they were extremely knowledgable about the Geisha life.  It was somewhat unusual for them to find themselves assigned to an American woman, and even more confounding to them that I was straight but in a job with all the masculine trappings, so as they grappled with how best to accomodate me (meaning find ways to be of service because in truth I tend to be fairly self sufficient) we talked a great deal and my perception of the Geisha comes more from that experience than anything else.  I would not care for a male Geisha.  The more I understood/stand about the Geisha the more uncomfortable I felt/feel about it. Hard to put my finger on it - perhaps it is about soul and motivation....

    < Message edited by ocilla -- 7/8/2007 2:36:02 PM >

    _____________________________

    Ocilla

    Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
    ~ Gary Snyder

    It takes a kinky village...

    (in reply to littlesarbonn)
    Profile   Post #: 57
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 2:29:34 PM   
    SDFemDom4cuck


    Posts: 2809
    Joined: 5/23/2005
    From: P'burgh PA
    Status: offline     		ocilla

    quote:

    The more I understood/stand about the Geisha the more uncomfortable I felt about it. Hard to put my finger on it - perhaps it is about soul....


    Interesting. When you have further time for reflection I would love to know why this is so. What was it that you came to understand about Geisha that I'm misunderstanding?

    < Message edited by SDFemDom4cuck -- 7/8/2007 2:30:27 PM >

    _____________________________

    Ms Jo

    She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
    How glittering they shone -
    And every One unbared a Nerve
    Or wantoned with a Bone -

    I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

    (in reply to ocilla)
    Profile   Post #: 58
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 2:33:38 PM   
    DSwriter


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 2/14/2007
    From: New Hope, PA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

    I do hope you won't mind my holding onto this and using it in future when I find the time to begin looking again. This really is absolutely spot on. I love it!


    Ms Jo,

    Please do put it to use.  Glad to hear that you find it useful.  I'll let my friend know. I'm sure she'll love hearing your response.

    I thought it was a very interesting look into the mindset of the 1950's male-dominated relationship.  It is sweetly ironic that now women of the new millenium are turning it around and using it to show submissive male's what they expect.

    A lot of women today probably read "The Good Wife's Guide" and are horrified by what was expected of women in the 50's.  Personally, when I read my friend's version of "The Good Gent's Guide" I found some of it a little dated, but i respect the premises that your Domme is to be spoiled, pampered, and treated like the Goddess that she is.  In that regard "The Good Gent's Guide" is something for every submissive male to constantly strive toward.

    < Message edited by DSwriter -- 7/8/2007 2:43:31 PM >

    (in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
    Profile   Post #: 59
    RE: male equivalent of a Geisha - 7/8/2007 2:42:14 PM   
    ocilla


    Posts: 1764
    Joined: 6/12/2007
    Status: offline     		To your original post it may not matter actually.  As the way I am veiwing it is more academic or nerdy perhaps.  I think what you are getting at with the idea of Geisha is trying to deliniate your desires in a sub and male wife.  In the end it all just comes down to words really.  And I added to my post the word motivation - I think that may be a big part of what is not so appealing to me about the Geisha - her motivation does not resonate with what I seek from a sub/ mate. And btw - great thread - making me think through some stuff which is always good.

    < Message edited by ocilla -- 7/8/2007 2:44:05 PM >

    _____________________________

    Ocilla

    Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
    ~ Gary Snyder

    It takes a kinky village...

    (in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
    Profile   Post #: 60
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