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RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 2:25:15 PM   
chey


Posts: 121
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline 		Since I started reading the message boards I have been feeling frustrated by this line of thinking. Thank you LA for saying out loud!

I was beginning to think I missed something at the "new submissives" registration desk all of those years ago.

We're all people and no more than human beings who make mistakes. I have also seen enough posts from dominants who seems to think a submissive should not mess up ever, as much as I have read submissives who have this ideal that he is her saving grace. 

Finding the right partner is never easy no matter what lifestyle you are looking in. And I am a big fan of "face reality, and move on!" Life happens to all of us!


(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 2:27:26 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Yup.  But, as you pointed out, there's this myth running rampant about the teacher dom, the trainer, the mentor.  No wonder some subs have these unrealistic expectations.  And, oftentimes it's the doms that perpetuate this myth.  Look at some of the dominant profiles.  "Let me guide you", etc.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 2:40:39 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Anyone who doesn't believe there are probably just as many so-called "Dom/mes" out there, who simply want a "Vanilla" relationship with some kinky sex thrown in (as opposed to a relationship that is truly based on D/s where the primary operative theme is obedience to the Dom/me, all, or a majority of the time) is (IMO) deluding themselves.

That is why I think it is so important to talk to someone about their expectations (whenever the time is right for both of them, but certainly before they agree to "committ"  or be "collared"). - Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/31/2007 2:52:38 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 2:45:00 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Yup.  But, as you pointed out, there's this myth running rampant about the teacher dom, the trainer, the mentor.  No wonder some subs have these unrealistic expectations.  And, oftentimes it's the doms that perpetuate this myth.  Look at some of the dominant profiles.  "Let me guide you", etc.


Oh lord, the let me guide thing, (rolling my eyes).   Generally, I will come up with a game play about how to get something accomplished, or what needs to be done to get there.    Be it a goal or a solution to a problem going on.   It will take not only my effort but effort on the submissives part as well.   I will layout the game plan, and go over it, what needs to get done and why.  I will ask for feedback on any flaws or things I've overlooked, take that into consideration and make any changes as needed. 

In terms of Guiding somebody, sure, I will do this to a point.  Helping them become the best that they can be at something.  Help them do the best that they can, and also be there at times to lift up their spirit as needed.   This does not always happen, I am human and I can get caught up in stress and issues myself.  I'm not perfect.

The thing that gets me about the whole "Guide me" thing I read on sub/slaves profiles, is guide you in what department? 

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 2:45:23 PM   
OnlyHis


Posts: 137
Joined: 2/25/2004
Status: offline 		LA,  Without reading further I would like to thank you for putting up this post. I have seen many newbies in the last few months that are exactly as you portray them. Seems they are looking for the romantic White Knight in Shining Armor/Master/ Dom. Hey he isn't out there, just a myth. Just like the myth of the  beautiful, kind , gentle and perfect Princess/sub/slave.  Everyone in all kinds of different relationships have their setbacks, there are going to be disappointments here and there.Chalk it up to a learning experience and move forward.  Especially, grow up, and recognize your own mistakes before passing the buck and blaming everyone besides yourself.  And hopefully learn from those mistakes. As LA has put so well.
Have a great day.

P.S.  Yes I too went through a kind of White Knight thing in past relationships long ago.  Then I saw life for what it really was , what I could get out of it and became happier for that.
 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 3:36:59 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

my situation is precisely the way my Master desires it, and were something to happen to him, i would see no logic in going out and somehow acquiring those life skills. it was my vulnerability and dependence that attracted my Master to me and strengthened our bond, why would i then turn around and do things that would turn me into a different sort of submissive altogether?




I have this g/f who recently lost the dominant in her life. He didn't leave her except that he was killed in an accident. I saw her the other night. In the course of our conversation she said approximately this: " I'm trying to mourn and recover from this and at the same time, I have to find out who I am again. I'm not the same person I was before all this happened. Now I have to find out how to live like he wanted me to and still be on my own. It's not easy, but being out here is better than being inside watching the walls close in on me wishing for what I can't have. Besides, I have to eat - y'know?"

When relationships change, people change. even when they can't imagine they ever would and when they can't imagine they ever could. Watching her go through everything she's going through I have to say being prepared for change even while embracing the life we have is indeed a tightrope. But it's worth it - even if we pray that what makes it worth it will never happen.

juliet

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 3:41:24 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The fact that one side of the relationship has ceded authority to the other side of the relationship, does NOT, (and thank you LA for pointing it out yet again), mean that he or she is ceding his or her personal responsibility to be a thinking, rational adult. And all the crap about how the Doms are responsible for everything is probably the one of the most destructive pieces of "teaching" that many both D and s-types are told. Couldn't agree with you more LA.

heartfelt

*Man i wish i could type


I just felt like seconding this. You said it wonderfully.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 3:57:33 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		I have nothing novel to add here but didn't want to ignore the importance of the thread. I wrote about this in my journal on the other side.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 3:59:19 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		But daddysprop, you didn't answer your own question: since you have grown into a state of utter despondency upon him, what on earth will you do if something happens to him? Die?

I am curious about why the man you are with would wish for you to be so vulnerable: how does it go with caring for you? I would love it if you took the time to explain it to me. For whilst I understand the principles behind an extreme D/s relationship, I still try to reconcile it with the idea I have of love: and what you describe on these boards is a lot of things... but not love. I don't presume that love is what ever motivated either of you: but caring is a mild form of love.  

We knew already you and I have utterly different outlooks on life, so don't ever feel I'm putting you on the spot. The more you speak though, the more perplexed I am.

_____________________________



(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:02:33 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rockwell
Whiplash - thats a good question.

What about dominant responsiblity then?

Somebody else answer - I know my opinion. I am another who would like to hear peoples ideas.

Zac

Nope, bad thread stealer.  No blowjob.

Of course doms have responsibility- everyone who agrees to be part of some relationship has a responsibility there. 

But this was a half rant half bonk on the head in response to the sudden influx of very clueless NOT responsibility holding fem subs around here.


((GIGGLES)) LOL LA your too funny

ms

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:13:10 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Allow me please to introduce you to a new term, punctuation. Maybe you might have already heard of it.


Hear, hear! I'm with you on this one heartfeltsub!

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:14:01 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The fact that one side of the relationship has ceded authority to the other side of the relationship, does NOT, (and thank you LA for pointing it out yet again), mean that he or she is ceding his or her personal responsibility to be a thinking, rational adult. And all the crap about how the Doms are responsible for everything is probably the one of the most destructive pieces of "teaching" that many both D and s-types are told. Couldn't agree with you more LA.

heartfelt

*Man i wish i could type


I just felt like seconding this. You said it wonderfully.


I'm gonna third this one.  Because this is something that needs to be established and worked out between two people, instead of everybody assuming this is the case.  Different strokes for different folks.

There are some relationships where D/s is only part of bedroom scene play.   Relationships with the Dom is responsible for everything 24/7.   Some where D/s is just PPE say a 70/30 ratio.   Just for somebody to buy into a myth that a Dom is 100% responsible for everything automatically is in for a rude awakening.   Some Dom/mes expect for the sub/slave to work and hold down a job, others do not.  So many different combinations of things it's not funny.

For those couples that only want BDSM bedroom kink, and more of a vanilla non D/s relationship outside the bedroom.. is the Dom is clearly not going to be the wise teacher, leader, guiding a meak and weak timid submissive.  

Ironic as it is, there are a lot of submissive women holding down power jobs during the day, where they are practically running the show at work.  Is the Dom responsible for everything the sub does at work as well?  I don't think so.

However, if a Master has a stay at home house slave and the slaves only focus in life is the Master/Mistress needs, and this is thier only responsibility in life, besides not breaking the law, so be it. 

Basically, the Doms responsibility is pretty much associated with the level of Power Exchanged and what responsibilities are assigned or remain with the submissive.    

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:18:25 PM   
PairOfDimes


Posts: 324
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline 		Yup, doms are people, subs are people. We're all people, and as such we all have responsibility for ourselves, and we start to share some responsibility once we get into relationships, but we don't, um, transfer it all wholesale. D/s relationships are lovely and fun but not *that* aberrant.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:18:59 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Hey Latex,

Most people posting in this thread ARE real life and have far more experience than you IN REAL LIFE.  It is the bullshit crap about how great dominants are supposed to be, how vital trust and communication are (without any real grasp of how healthy trust is formed or the fact that talking isn't communicating as we speak of it) and the sort of fluffy crap one reads on places like castlerealm that cause all the fucking heartbreak in our community.

I was a pillar of the bdsm community when I was an asshole with anger issues.  I am not running or doing anything at the moment and am a far better person than I was before.  Dominants are people, with issues, problems, and whatnot.  We are not superhuman, we are not perfect, and the louder someone bleeps about how they are the noble exception, the more full of shit I tend to think they are.

LA is right, submissives often come into this thinking us dominants are the answer to their own dysfunction and they need to grow the fuck up and become mature responsible adults and deal with whatever issues they have first.   The more we demand that of people, the more healthy our dysfunctional little community will become.


There's probably some truth to that, but I think that dominants often bring this on themselves by acting like they are God's gift to the world, and presenting themselves to subs as unquestionable, and virtually infallible. Some naive subs get burned, and there you go. People should know better, both dom and sub, but people are flawed, and shit happens.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:22:25 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I dunno, just seems we got ourselves an influx of clueless newbies who happily leap into relationships with doms, clueless, idealistic- and then when it all crashes down to earth and reality, instead of saying "Wow I was stupid, shouldn't do that again" they say "Why do doms suck when us subs are so beautiful and wonderful?"

I know, I know, nothing new, nothing different- clueless newbies are everywhere all the time.  But felt like I should do something bold to hopefully help them out.

Doms are people- you are an adult.  Act like an adult who knows how to get involved with other adults using good sense.  Getting into Ds relationships is NOT different from getting into vanilla relationships.  Same issues need to be dealt with.  If you get burned, take responsibility for what YOU did, face reality, and move on.


Maybe it's just my skewed view of the world, but I've seen a lot more dommes complaining about subs than the other way around.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:27:46 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

But daddysprop, you didn't answer your own question: since you have grown into a state of utter despondency upon him, what on earth will you do if something happens to him? Die?


If memory serves me correctly, he has already chosen who she is being willed to. Prop, if I am wrong I do apologize.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:35:24 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		i have seen just as many posts from Dominants as to how come the submissives are so mean here too. i`m  not sure blaming everyone else is just a submissive trait.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:42:33 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

But daddysprop, you didn't answer your own question: since you have grown into a state of utter despondency upon him, what on earth will you do if something happens to him? Die?

I am curious about why the man you are with would wish for you to be so vulnerable: how does it go with caring for you? I would love it if you took the time to explain it to me. For whilst I understand the principles behind an extreme D/s relationship, I still try to reconcile it with the idea I have of love: and what you describe on these boards is a lot of things... but not love. I don't presume that love is what ever motivated either of you: but caring is a mild form of love.  

We knew already you and I have utterly different outlooks on life, so don't ever feel I'm putting you on the spot. The more you speak though, the more perplexed I am.


Yes, you'll find daddysprop a little different from others on the message board, because she's a TPE slave through and through.   There have been moments, when I've felt somewhat perplexed, however if you consider extreme submission as giving up all your own needs, wants and desires for the sake of another.  You'll find a totally selfless person, why?  Because she has fully given every aspect of herself (mind, heart, body, and soul) to her Master.

Love can be a bit of a greedy and needy emotion at times, where we want to feel loved by somebody.  If you can love somebody and set aside the Greedy aspects of it, then perhaps you'll begin to grasp how Love and caring works in her relationship.   Her does whatever her Master requires of her is proof of her love,  her master requesting and using her is proof of his love for her.   Hell, you don't have to have Love as most people know it, for an extreme D/s or M/s relationship to work.   For some people Love is a four letter word that can mess an extreme D/s relationship up, for others it does not.

Not all relationships are built around love.  However, if they can be centered around commitment and devotion.   Again, Love can be a somewhat greedy and jealous emotion.  Let's play a little mental game to illustrate this point.  A master and two slaves.  The Master uses one slave, and the other becomes Jealous.   The slave is not thinking about the pleasure the master is finding in another, she is thinking more about herself.  She is dealing with her own fears, insecurities and self esteem issues.  In part wishing it was the Master using her and not the other slave.  However, if this same slave were to take pleasure in knowing her master was being pleased, she would be more content and not so jealous.   Again, an Extreme D/s relationship becomes more of a selfless thing for a slave.   She loves her master and is happy that he is pleased, she is happy that he is happy.
 
Hope this kind of makes to you.  It becomes a rather selfless mindset of sorts here.  Very difficult for many people to actually do or fully swallow.  It involves surrending yourself completely and fully to another, and not being selfish about anything at all.  Don't get me wrong slaves in these type of relationships still have to deal with these emotions, however they are viewed as limits to work past on the part of the slave.   If a slave is feeling jealous, insecure, or is having difficult issues, it simply becomes something they need to work past as a mental limit.   Whew....

Anybody, have any insight to add to this.. to perhaps shed some more light on this subject of more Extreme TPE D/s relationships.  LOL...

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:45:05 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Fantastic post LA. I don't think it's much of a secret to you that we have very similar views on this. I'm glad you posted it and even more glad that so many people are in support of it. I've said pretty similar things and just ended up being a judgmental meanie....lol. 

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Doms are people, too. Wise up already subs. - 7/31/2007 4:50:48 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Fantastic post LA. I don't think it's much of a secret to you that we have very similar views on this. I'm glad you posted it and even more glad that so many people are in support of it. I've said pretty similar things and just ended up being a judgmental meanie....lol. 


You a judgmental meanie? I've never seen this side of you surface on the message boards. LOL...   I think this is a great thread.    For what it's worth I've never viewed you as a judgemental meanie either. 

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 7/31/2007 4:52:46 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 80
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