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I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:19:27 AM

missturbation

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'I trust Sir implicitly.'
'I trust my Master 100%.'

I see statements like these every day in Cm, I make them myself. However i then see other statements made about limits, safe words etc that seem to me (my opinion) to contradict these completely.

If i trust Sir implicitly would i really have limits (hard or otherwise) or would i trust that He would not go to far?
If i trust Sir implicitly would i really need a safe word or would i trust that He would see i needed to stop, see i only thought i needed to stop?

Now yes i have asked Sir to stop once and He did straight away. We personally don't play at saying 'stop please' when i mean carry on.
Also yes when i first met Sir i had limits in place (hard and otherwise).

As i stated in the thread 'no limits, how far would you go?' i now have no limits with Sir because i trust Him implicitly to not go to far, to not cause any permanent damage.

As i stated in the the thread 'pushing to use the safeword?' thread we also don't use safewords. I trust Him to stop if He sees i cannot take anymore. I also trust Him to keep going if He believes i can take more.

Now i'm not saying that Sirs judgement is 100% infallible but i am saying my levels of trust are so high in Him, that i choose to trust His judgement at all times.

I'm not saying that people who use safe words or have limits are wrong in any way, im just saying i dont understand it. I usually try so hard not to be judgemental about others relationships but i will openly admit that i am struggling with this.
I guess it boils down for me to the question 'If you trust your partner 100% why do you need limits / safewords?'
Does this not show a lack of trust?
And if you havent got 100% trust what have you got?

My apologies for appearing judgemental, i really am hoping some of you will be able to help me understand the other side of the coin.

Oh and just to be clear i'm speaking more of long term relationships not casual partners.

* Not sure i've been too clear in my questions here. Im not looking for why people use safe words really, more how 100% trust can equate to the need for a safe word or limits.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 9/19/2007 7:58:30 AM >

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:27:14 AM

RRafe

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His care is your safeword.

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:28:28 AM

missturbation

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I like that very much

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:28:51 AM

GhitaAmati

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I dont use limits and safewords with my Sir. For the same reasons you stated above. I do trust him compleatly. But, we also play rather regularly with other people. People I dont trust compleatly. So sometimes we practice using safewords in play...or do things to test how I will react to certain situations, so that if it happens in a public play area, it isnt brand new to me. When I am playing with someone else, we discuss limits and safewords, and whenever I am playing with someone else, my Sir is present and paying attention to me so he can jump in if it looks like something is wrong but Im not responding the way I should be. Often when I chime in on a limits or safeword thread, Im discussing my experiances with using them....which is usually with people other than my own Sir.

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Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:31:11 AM

missturbation

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I completely agree with you here. I too occasionally have played with others and i know that limits are put in place by Sir with the other person. I again leave Sir to set the limits because i trust Him to do this. We do discuss it also though.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:32:27 AM

AquaticSub

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Safe word doesn't mean I don't trust him. I have to trust him to actually stop, don't I? As far as I'm concerned "no" is a safe word. You say it and you trust them to stop.

We have a safeword because we like really intense force play during sexual situations. I like being able say "No, stop!" without actually meaning "No, stop!". Gets us all hot and bothered. And, of course, trusting him doesn't mean I think he is some sort of god. He is going to fuck up. He is only human and would whip me harder for pretending he is otherwise than for simply stating the facts: He is only human. He will make a mistake.

We have a safeword because we view it as just another tool in the safety box, like medical scissors and a first aide kit. We have a safeword because I like to fight back, so pushing him away and even trying to push him up by his neck just signals "I am really turned on right now!" during some scenes.

I don't think using or not using one is right anymore. I used to think that but now I just see it as a personal preference. If a dominant isn't going to stop for your safeword, he isn't going to stop for "No, get off me you fucking bastard" either. That being my opinion, I'll go the route that lets me scream "NO!" all I want when I really mean "MORE!".

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:35:51 AM

MstrDennynSlave

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I myself have never used a safe word with my master. We have discussed using one when we play with others, and he is always going to be present when that happens. He keeps a close eye on my reactions, and knows when I'm getting uncomfortable. As for limits, we have none as I trust him implicitly.

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:36:39 AM

UR2Badored

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This seems to be carried over from the other thread. The need for no limits versus the reality of "no limits". Some see it as two different things; some do not. There should be no need for limits in an openly communicated, established, and trusting relationship versus the extreme. I do think there are extremes by the way. What is wrong with that type of thinking if that works for a person?

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/19/2007 7:41:33 AM >

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:39:40 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Safe word doesn't mean I don't trust him. I have to trust him to actually stop, don't I? As far as I'm concerned "no" is a safe word. You say it and you trust them to stop.

We have a safeword because we like really intense force play during sexual situations. I like being able say "No, stop!" without actually meaning "No, stop!". Gets us all hot and bothered.

May i ask for clarification here. You say 'no' is a safe word and you trust him to stop, yet you then state you like to say 'no, stop' without him actually doing so? Then 'no' surely is not a safe word for you.

. And, of course, trusting him doesn't mean I think he is some sort of god. He is going to fuck up. He is only human and would whip me harder for pretending he is otherwise than for simply stating the facts: He is only human. He will make a mistake.
I agree as i stated in my op, Sir is not incapable of making mistakes.

We have a safeword because we view it as just another tool in the safety box, like medical scissors and a first aide kit. We have a safeword because I like to fight back, so pushing him away and even trying to push him up by his neck just signals "I am really turned on right now!" during some scenes.
Thank you.

I don't think using or not using one is right anymore. I used to think that but now I just see it as a personal preference. If a dominant isn't going to stop for your safeword, he isn't going to stop for "No, get off me you fucking bastard" either. That being my opinion, I'll go the route that lets me scream "NO!" all I want when I really mean "MORE!".
I don't think there is a right or wrong either. Personal preference, definately. Like i said though i just find mysekf being a little judgemental where trust, safe word and limit are put in the same sentence. Trying to understand as i hate being judgemental.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to AquaticSub)

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:41:40 AM

Driver1961

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He dips His lid:

Is it simply possible that your relationship has evolved, where others (that you think you are being judgemental on) have not?

I'd say, enjoy where you are (like you state you do) and smile contentedly that few here express the dual level of understanding that has evolved between you both.

(Edited) Please note; this post is not meant to offend those that use safe words etc.

Warm regards Driver.

< Message edited by Driver1961 -- 9/19/2007 7:44:23 AM >

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:41:46 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UR2Badored

This seems to be carried over from the other thread. The need for no limits versus the reality of "no limits". There should be no need for limits in an openly communicated, established, and trusting relationship versus the extreme. I do think there are extremes by the way. What is wrong with that type of thinking if that works for a person?

No its not about whether you have limits or not, its about how trusting someone 100% can equate to placing limits.
Nothing wrong with anyones thinking. Im having trouble with my thinking at present, that is why i posted this. Im trying not to judge but i clearly am and want to change that.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 9/19/2007 7:42:21 AM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to UR2Badored)

Post #: 11

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:44:19 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Driver1961

He dips His lid:

Is it simply possible that your relationship has evolved, where others (that you think you are being judgemental on) have not?

I'd say, enjoy where you are (like you state you do) and smile contentedly that few here express the dual level of understanding that has evloved between you.

Warm regards Driver.

Thank you.
You are right in both your statements. Quite possible it is just about evolvement. However i hate judgemental me and am just trying to understand so i can stop.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Driver1961)

Post #: 12

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:45:26 AM

Aswad

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The purpose of safewords, in the final analysis, is to alert the top of an impending medical emergency, whether somatic or psychiatric. For those who play in a manner where mere intensity is cause to stop, an intermediate safeword (e.g. "pink") should be used to distinguish the two; for me- if playing so- "pink" (nice monosyllabic word) means to ease up or pause (e.g. to check on a restraint that might be too tight), whereas "red" means to cut ropes and check vitals while getting out the phone to call 911. That is a rather major difference in what one is communicating, and what role it plays with regard to trust, power exchange, etc.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:47:13 AM

breatheasone

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I cannot read my Masters mind...nor can He mine...perhaps we will be a better more enlightened couple in the future but we don't seem to be there yet...so HE wants me to have and USE the safe words He gave me if i need them....i love that He cares that much for me and that we have that level of respect and consideration for each other.

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:48:49 AM

RRafe

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The real divide seems to come from the need for trust-vs the need for intensity. Some people get off on fear-some are traumatized by it. When we speak of extremes-we usually do so with a sense of anticipation -for those who enjoy going there. Where others might view the same as insane.

The divide exists at the point that we choose to suspend disbelief, and just go with it. This is where limits and a safety net become of importance. If you trust the top's limits to keep you safe-if not totally intact.........You know that you will recover-at the very least.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:49:10 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

May i ask for clarification here. You say 'no' is a safe word and you trust him to stop, yet you then state you like to say 'no, stop' without him actually doing so? Then 'no' surely is not a safe word for you.

If you say no and expect him to stop because that is what you have discussed, I call that a safeword. No is not our safeword. Which means if I use it he may or may not stop, depending on how he feels. This is done because it arouses me to be able to say no and not mean it.

quote:

We have a safeword because we view it as just another tool in the safety box, like medical scissors and a first aide kit. We have a safeword because I like to fight back, so pushing him away and even trying to push him up by his neck just signals "I am really turned on right now!" during some scenes.
Thank you.

Welcome! I realize not everyone likes to play that way. But we do, so we think that having a safeword in place - even though it is never used and we keep having to make a new one because we keep forgetting what the damn thing is - is useful. Just in case. Just having a first aide kit around for when you do knife play. Doesn't mean you don't trust them. Just means that you know they might screw up and you would like to having something handy to stop the bleeding!

quote:

I don't think there is a right or wrong either. Personal preference, definately. Like i said though i just find mysekf being a little judgemental where trust, safe word and limit are put in the same sentence. Trying to understand as i hate being judgemental.

Trying to understand the other side of things is always admirable. I hope I helped a little.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 9/19/2007 7:50:54 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to missturbation)

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:49:41 AM

missturbation

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See i can understand that use of a safe word, but to clarify i think i am looking more towards the stop play safe word, not the pause kind of safe word.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 17

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:50:20 AM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

The purpose of safewords, in the final analysis, is to alert the top of an impending medical emergency, whether somatic or psychiatric. For those who play in a manner where mere intensity is cause to stop, an intermediate safeword (e.g. "pink") should be used to distinguish the two; for me- if playing so- "pink" (nice monosyllabic word) means to ease up or pause (e.g. to check on a restraint that might be too tight), whereas "red" means to cut ropes and check vitals while getting out the phone to call 911. That is a rather major difference in what one is communicating, and what role it plays with regard to trust, power exchange, etc.

Health,
al-Aswad.

But they get used for other reasons as well-such as fear.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:54:30 AM

Celeste43

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I trust him implicitly but that doesn't mean I think he's a mindreader. He isn't going to know from looking at me that the third wind of the rope on my upper left thigh is pinching slightly. Or that I'm going to sneeze if he doesn't get the hair caught in the blindfold to stop tickling my nose. Or that I think I'm coming down with a cold and really need to not have my head off the side of the bed because it will start up my vertigo which only comes on with sinus problems.

So I tell him, or use a gesture so he will remove the gag and then tell him. And then he fixes the problem and we go on if we can and stop if we can't. Here it just means there's a problem.

(in reply to Aswad)

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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:54:48 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

I cannot read my Masters mind...nor can He mine...perhaps we will be a better more enlightened couple in the future but we don't seem to be there yet...so HE wants me to have and USE the safe words He gave me if i need them....i love that He cares that much for me and that we have that level of respect and consideration for each other.

This i can understand, thank you. However i will say that not having safe words for me does not imply that Sir does not care for or respect me.
**************************************************************

Thank you Aquatic, i realised after i posted i had read the 'no' bits wrong lol - doh me!!

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to breatheasone)

Post #: 20

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