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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:01:11 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Damn I like Canadians… guess I’ll have to hate someone else...lol

I am confused though… please name a war that you think was purposely started by the US to ease domestic tension.  I could agree if you stated a war was started to secure an important asset like oil… but only if there were an excuse to use.

This I believe to be a fact… The US is the fastest country in the world to realize a mistake in leadership and change it. I truly think the rest of the world should be grateful of that. If the US was as self-centered as many attribute it to be they would be a citizen of another United State and paying the same high taxes I am.
Butch

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:04:01 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		why was george bush (allegedly) elected for two terms?  who might you think is a mistake in office world wise?  show your homework.


http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/eln01_leader.html  lol, for fun.

Ron


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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:14:55 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Popeye1250… on top of that China has no elective populous to answer too. They are unpredictable in there actions because they do not need a consensus of representative elected officials of the people.

They have a vast industrial base... even greater then the US. Yet they serve no useful or moral service to the world… however wrong or misguided the US may be they do because their people demand it.

China bases everything on China always has always will and there is no prospect of change according to the wants and needs of its people.
Butch

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:18:17 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
This I believe to be a fact… The US is the fastest country in the world to realize a mistake in leadership and change it. I truly think the rest of the world should be grateful of that.
Butch



.oh.

.goodness.

.wow.

Just composing myself now...

 
I know for certain that is one of the funniest things I have ever read.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:20:35 PM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
I am interested in what would happen to US society,ignore the turmoil in other countries, if you like,their problem,let them sort it out.What would the US do?Think into the future,the possibilities given your current leadership and social structure.


You must have a short memory. Apart from the behind the scenes manipulation that obviously goes on the US sat back and did nothing in loads of conflicts between the end of world war two and up until the first Iraq war.

We moaned at them when they were inward looking before the Iraq war and we moan at them for having a vision of what they want the Middle East to be during and after the Iraq wars. They can’t seem to win. I don’t doubt they serve their own interests in this but that is what every government around the world does and so why do we think our government is any better?


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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:24:15 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Ron…. Iraq is President Bush’s big mistake… But 3,000 American lives were and are hard to forget. If not for them he would not have been re-elected. Bush’s reasons for going to Iraq may have been faulty but the majority of Americans believed they needed to go there to protect their families.

As some of the lies, half-truths and false information the administration used comes out the American people are getting rid of him and his party.

This does not mean we will be leaving Iraq… but we will try to rectify the mistakes made.

Butch    

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/17/2007 1:26:26 PM >

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:37:34 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If not for them he would not have been re-elected. Bush’s reasons for going to Iraq may have been faulty but the majority of Americans believed they needed to go there to protect their families.



Strike that - I know that is now one of the funniest things I have read.

quote:

but we will try to rectify the mistakes made.


Oh please with that bullshit.  Maybe - sadam wouldnt have been in power if it wasnt for the states investments.
Maybe - bin laden wouldn't have been as powerful if it wasn't for the training the states gave him.
So what next?  The next government sponsered and trained by the states 'won't ' become a future threat?  Is that how you justify rectifying mistakes - by making new and much more dangerous ones?
 
I know that the people of the states on the whole despise the whole war... that they neither support their men and women dying for a stupid war where there was nothing but lies and falsehood.  You think that because I am british, I think that the UK is any less to blame because our government supported your government and not your people? Of course I am appalled.  I don't support a country, I support a world.  And I just wish that governments would stop with the bullshit 'doing it for the best intentions' crap and admit to their own selfishness instead of vomiting democracy.
 
the.dark.
(.editedsothatliarsandwordtwistersactuallygetnofun.)


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 10/17/2007 2:00:32 PM >

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:43:56 PM   
EPGAH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
...well to be fair KD my suggestion that the USA has tended to need an external enemy to suppress tension at home was meant seriously. i do try to criticise people specifically rather than a whole people but if i fail in this i apologise.
It's also worth noting that i have moved to Canada which means that US policy has become more important in my daily life than hitherto. Even today we hear that because of the US economic slowdown Canadian economic growth is being slowed down. The fact that the USA is the worlds only remaining hyper-power means that it effects people beyond its borders..... therefore it seems to me fair that i comment on those aspects of US policy that have a bearing on my own life. Please note though, that on issues such as gun ownership in the US i recognise that it is a purely domestic issue.

O, Canada! (Pun intended, as usual)
Then we have certain things in common, mostly immigration and lingual disunity leading to national disunity.
Immigration: America hates unpaid welfare leeches, mostly from Mexico, but El Salvador and even China(!) have found us to be a convenient dumping-ground for their malcontents, and they get to leech off our educational and medical centers. Canada doesn't understand that, but Canada objects to Americans coming LEGALLY into Canada and BUYING--not stealing--medicines!
Lingual/National Disunity: Perhaps because Canada was disputed territory between England and France, but BOTH languages are spoken in Canada. However, the French-speaking part has begun making noises about seceding from the primarily ENGLISH-speaking part. This could be analogous to America's great invading force of people who can't--or more likely, REFUSE TO--speak English invading large tracts of America and forming sub-societies (Yes, this has happened with every wave of immigrants), but Hispanics want to start breaking them off from America, yet still expecting Federal "financial service"! (I.e. they want us to fund their culturally-founded incompetence!)
Of course, some cooler heads have suggested annexing Mexico, spending a few billion dollars up front to bring them "up to code", rather than letting them slowly bleed us to death. Oddly, Mexico hates that idea, it "infringes on their national sovereignty"--No mention of their continuing infringement on our sovereignty...Guess America's not allowed to defend itself, just all these other guys...?

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 1:56:18 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Do all citizens of the UK think 3,000 deaths are funny… I hope not… Now maybe they…as I…think 75,000 Iraqis was a steep price to pay but not funny.

Oh well makes no difference you are not worth the typing effort…PS.. was it funny when they blew up your subways?

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 2:01:27 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		who blew up subways ?

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 2:01:58 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		OK... yup - you proved it.
Your good at lying and trying to twist words.
S'ok - I highlighted it for you so you can actually see whats so funny...
Now go take the cheerleaers outfit off - you surely don't have the legs for it.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 2:03:15 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		Who is not important just now... but was it funny?...

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 2:03:44 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Dunno Ron - just more lies being perpetuated by the same person I guess.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 3:19:50 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Lingual/National Disunity: Perhaps because Canada was disputed territory between England and France, but BOTH languages are spoken in Canada. However, the French-speaking part has begun making noises about seceding from the primarily ENGLISH-speaking part.


...it gets worse.....the part of the UK i came from is also bilingual: Wales. There we speak both english and welsh. There have also been noises about seceding from the union. Where, again, we differ is that you see it as a bad thing and i see it as evidence of free speech, democracy and cultural identity. Clearly you feel multiculturalism is a bad thing, fair enough, you have some supporters in that view on these boards. Others, like me, enjoy the challenges that multiculturalism bring. Being human is not, in my view, about which culture is better.....it is about the rich complexity of existence.
i understand that in parts of the US Spanish is being spoken more and more......to the point where it is becoming a semi-official language. Obviously this concerns you, but were i to reside in those areas i'd enjoy the new experiences that a new language bring me.
Life, in my view, is a roller coaster, not a sedate dawdle through a park. Try to enjoy the differences rather than fear them......you'd possibly be happier.......

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 3:23:29 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Do all citizens of the UK think 3,000 deaths are funny… I hope not… Now maybe they…as I…think 75,000 Iraqis was a steep price to pay but not funny.

Oh well makes no difference you are not worth the typing effort…PS.. was it funny when they blew up your subways?



.....nope, 3000 deaths aren't funny. Nor are cheap shots about terrorism. What is funny is your assertion that the US is good at rectifying mistakes in governmental policy. Experience does not back up your assertion. However, i'm sure that you're a good patriot.......for a given value of patriot. The 'my country, right or wrong' sort of patriot.

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 3:27:06 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No my country... change it when its wrong... I think that is happening... is Canada ever wrong?... you have enough problems of your own don't you think... should you really be thowing stones. 

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 3:50:13 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		911 was nothing to do with Iraq, Bush and co just told everyone it was.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223932/

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 3:53:40 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

But,what would happen if the US stopped helping it's allies and concerned itself purely with defence of it's own shores.You,like us are a warring nation, it seems we have to have a scrap now and again to be happy, but what would happen do you think if the US suddenly ignored the rest of the world.

I am interested in what would happen to US society,ignore the turmoil in other countries, if you like,their problem,let them sort it out.What would the US do?Think into the future,the possibilities given your current leadership and social structure.


It could be they may end up becoming more tolerant of the differences of others much like Canada both within their own borders  and of those globally, it seems all these wars tend to divide the population and have them fighting amongst themselves with a lot of finger pointing in every direction, breeding contempt and intolerance amongst the population


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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 3:59:10 PM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH
Lingual/National Disunity: Perhaps because Canada was disputed territory between England and France, but BOTH languages are spoken in Canada. However, the French-speaking part has begun making noises about seceding from the primarily ENGLISH-speaking part.

...it gets worse.....the part of the UK i came from is also bilingual: Wales. There we speak both english and welsh. There have also been noises about seceding from the union. Where, again, we differ is that you see it as a bad thing and i see it as evidence of free speech, democracy and cultural identity. Clearly you feel multiculturalism is a bad thing, fair enough, you have some supporters in that view on these boards. Others, like me, enjoy the challenges that multiculturalism bring. Being human is not, in my view, about which culture is better.....it is about the rich complexity of existence.
i understand that in parts of the US Spanish is being spoken more and more......to the point where it is becoming a semi-official language. Obviously this concerns you, but were i to reside in those areas i'd enjoy the new experiences that a new language bring me.
Life, in my view, is a roller coaster, not a sedate dawdle through a park. Try to enjoy the differences rather than fear them......you'd possibly be happier.......

Yes, I suppose I would be happier if I thought that invaders taking over part of my country (with or without the tacit consent of the Government), sucking our economy dry, closing down hospitals, trying to double the cost of education, committing LOTS more crime, and breeding uncontrollably--because it's part of their "culture"--all the while demanding all the benefits of living in the First World, but abdicating the responsibilities and costs to the taxpayers--was somehow a good thing...Which of those is a good thing, again?

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RE: Giving up war? - 10/17/2007 4:08:25 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Politesub53

I’m not so sure they had absolutely nothing to do with 911…but after what has come out about the Vice President and Bush enhancing or suppressing information… we were dead wrong to go there. We were deceived!!! Many people died for that deception and if it were up to me there would be an impeachment.

But remember the people were behind them thinking they did have a connection…. and were harboring terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. The UK agreed… I don’t believe they are under our control… they had faulty intelligence... which is different then deceived.  The People are the country here and they will make changes if slowly. And if we don’t then the people are at fault because eventually our government reflects our wishes.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 60
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