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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 3:26:46 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

To simplify........

The poker is on the top.

The pokee is on the bottom.

Make sense now?

Really?

There are a lot of ways to have sex, even vanilla sex.

I forgot to add the <sarcasm> </sarcasm> tags, sorry.

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 3:45:26 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

To simplify........

The poker is on the top.

The pokee is on the bottom.

Make sense now?

I was under the impression that this view had become considerably less popular since the Puritans (and Puritanical thought) seem to have lost some steam.

John

You don't watch politics, do you?

Sure, I watch plenty of politics but haven't noticed anyone wearing those funny hats with the belt buckle.

John

(tongue planted firmly in cheek)

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 3:47:46 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

To simplify........

The poker is on the top.

The pokee is on the bottom.

Make sense now?

I was under the impression that this view had become considerably less popular since the Puritans (and Puritanical thought) seem to have lost some steam.

John

You don't watch politics, do you?

Sure, I watch plenty of politics but haven't noticed anyone wearing those funny hats with the belt buckle.

John

(tongue planted firmly in cheek)

Oh dear, you haven't noticed the puritan perverts here?

They changed hats-very insidious.

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 3:57:36 PM

dawntreader

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightMaiden

Interesting discussion :)

I can explain why I am a sub. In my every day life I am the central core around which everything revolves. I organize the house, the kids, the money, I take care of everything. I am strong, independant, free thinking. I have been told by friends that they admire my confidence, my willingness to tackle any task head on, and I have also been told that I can come across to the uninitiated as intimidating. Perhaps for this reason I typically attract submissive men (not the sexually submissive BDSM type, although they do tend to be the type to want to lay there with the "take me me mentality")... but submissive in the sense that they are sweet and sensitive but with no real backbone. So in a very real sense, not only do I take care of their physical and environmental needs, but I am also their support system.

Who is my support system? Who do I turn to?

SO at the end of the day when I crawl into bed I am left with the thought, who is there to take care of me. When I go to bed and want physical satisfaction, its just another "chore" (not the right word but its close) to have to come up with ways to satisfy my partner and try and get what I want. I think this is one of the reasons that sex wanes in vanilla marriages. One of the partners typically has the role that I do, and by the time they get to bed, they dont want to have to think anymore... its not so much physical exhaustion as emotional/mental weariness.

I want to be elevated from the mundane, to have all responsibilities removed from me for a while. I want a man who is stronger than me that can say "you're mine and thats ALL you need to think about right now".

Well said

and i totally relate~

edited to add: my personal thoughts on it are that there are few strong Dominants and fewer still that can handle strong women. By the time i toss in the BDSM towel for something more rewarding, i will be like steel...and a part of me finds that a little sad~

< Message edited by dawntreader -- 10/23/2007 4:02:04 PM >

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 4:19:11 PM

Carrianna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

Why would you assume that most women are subs? Blanket statements as such are going to result in some heavy backlash so be warned.

According to the statistics compiled by Trevor Jacques, most women in the lifestyle are indeed submissives. In fact, they comprise the largest segment of the BDSM community.

John

Ummmmmmmm, I am under the assumption TV’s are the reason why! (ie men added as female) Or don’t they count as female/submissive?

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 5:24:02 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Carrianna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

Why would you assume that most women are subs? Blanket statements as such are going to result in some heavy backlash so be warned.

According to the statistics compiled by Trevor Jacques, most women in the lifestyle are indeed submissives. In fact, they comprise the largest segment of the BDSM community.

John

Ummmmmmmm, I am under the assumption TV’s are the reason why! (ie men added as female) Or don’t they count as female/submissive?

I believe transvestites counted as transvestites. And why would transvestites's be the reason for the majority of lifestyle women being submissive, or for the fact that submissive women comprise the largest segment of the real time BDSM community (you did not specify which you were referring to)?

John

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 5:52:13 PM

RosesHaveThorns

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I disagree with the statement that girls are taught that men and women are equal. Yes, the teacher may say it, or perhaps a parent or two(Or three?) but culture does NOT.

WARNING: This is written by someone in U.S., so this mostly applies to people in the U.S., or to people in "Westren" countries. I doubt that I could write something for another set of cultural beliefs.

First of all, even if most of us are not Christian(And I am not even sure if that is true), plenty of us live in a country dominated by them. And pretty conservative ones, too. In th U.S., politicans are constantly judged on height, appearence, moral values, and appeal to Christians. Our freaking Pledge of Alliegance has the statement in it "Under God".

There aren't exaclty many good female role models out there in politics for girls in the U.S.

Looking at Anorexia/Bulimia, disorders which affect primarily girls. They are taught that they must sacrafice their health in order to be weak and thin to appeal to BOYS. They do it to confirm to what boys want.

Girls still get made fun of for trying to join high school football teams or even athletics. I know that at my school, most of the girls on teams were assumed to be sluts.

Hell, guys find it funny to remark upon the fact that I open the frigging door sometimes.

And do I even have to mention the slut/madonna complex?

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 5:55:43 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Carrianna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

Why would you assume that most women are subs? Blanket statements as such are going to result in some heavy backlash so be warned.

According to the statistics compiled by Trevor Jacques, most women in the lifestyle are indeed submissives. In fact, they comprise the largest segment of the BDSM community.

John

Ummmmmmmm, I am under the assumption TV’s are the reason why! (ie men added as female) Or don’t they count as female/submissive?

If it has a cock-it's a male.

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 6:02:19 PM

Lashra

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Conditioning by society is the major factor and many women do like the attention/sensations and to please. Personally I am Dominant and it comes to me naturally. I have never had a desire to submit or allow another to have control over me. I have never submitted in the past and I never will. I do not find it natural for me nor do I find it pleasant.

I have often thought that there are many more male subs/switches out there than acknowledged, usually because society has conditioned men to be the ones in charge and it flames them if they vary away from that path. I know many male "Doms" who secretly are submissive/switches and either hide it from their submissives or they pretend not to have a sub side and go thru life wearing a mask of dominance.

Personally I think switching or bottming is probably the bigger part of BDSM, just getting people to admit it is difficult.

~Lashra

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 6:20:45 PM

Jasmyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It seems that in BDSM most of the women into it are submissive. I was just curious what you all think the reason for that may be. Do you think gender roles of the vanilla world play a role here? Or is it a genuine submissive tendency?

Also, another interesting aspect is that I notice that a lot of dominant women started off as a sub. If this is you, what made you make that switch?

I grew up the youngest of 9 boys, 5 girls, in a very patriachol environment ... despite my earlier leanings towards independence ... I'm a 4th of July girl ... in my teens, a rape, a pregnancy, and general subservience to tow the family line and be the good little girl I needed to be to attract a good man and have him make an honest woman of me, given that a good little catholic girl was only as good as the ring on her finger ... I desperately tried to be subservient to my partners ... only to find this actually did their heads in ... while my actions spoke of subservience and wanting a male to take care of me so I in turn could take care of him ... my demeanor, how I thought about myself, about life, about partnerships, about sex, about genders ...screamed different... what my partners thought they were getting ... a strong, confident, independent woman ...was not who crawled into their bed at night ... I defered to them......sexually and within the relationship ... ... years later, when I looked back, I realised that what these men saw in me, found attractive in me, was my ability to lead, my calm, my ability to get things done and make things happen.... which stopped the moment traditional gender roles were forced upon us ... Putting pressure on them to lead (because that is what the man does right?) ...was, I know now unfair ... the relationships weren't honest ... it was like okay ...here is Barbie, here is Ken ... now Barbie be a good girl for Ken ... when really all Ken wanted was for Barbie to bend him over and rodger him senseless ... give him boundaries and let him please her ...

Throughout those relationships the real me would surface ... I was the more sexually adventurous ...but I held back on being deviant as I wanted to be ...because the man's suppose to unleash the woman in me right? Ayecrumba I'd being unleashing the woman in me since I was twelve and masting furiously to my brothers' secret stash of Forum magazines ... the stories I wrote back then all consisted of dominant females and subservient men ... but my life took a longtime to reflect that ...

In my late 20's, I thought there was more to live than being a cum recepticle ...so I began to explore bondage and discipline, sadism and masochism, fetish dressing and master/slave role play ... ayecrumba this shit was hot ... what have I been doing for the past 15 years ...

One day my play partner, who became my lover and boyfriend for a year ... asked me to Top him ... thinking he too wanted the subservient partner, white picket fence 1950's wife/life I became that for him ... until that day ... and Top him I did ...

It was like a light had being turned on ... and I could comfortably say I was for once in my life finally able and happy and content to stand in my own light ... stand in my own power ...

I'd come full circle ... that girl who was there in my teens, who questioned gender roles and expectations, who would happily stand up and be counted ... who was lost in a wilderness of bullshit after being raped at 15 ... finally found her way out of the darkness and I've never looked back. ... this is me:

"Standing in her own light...she learns to find out who she is ... beneath all the layers of life ... and finds herself happy ... like a butterfly emerging from her cocoon ... she comes full circle and says ... this is me... this is who I am ...I am me ...and I'm in charge ... if you have a problem with that ... poguemahone and don't let the door hit you on the way out ..."

To answer your question cyber ... nothing made me switch ..but evolution itself. ... I always was dominant.

Do I think woman have a genuine tendency to be submissive? Yes I do ... but that doesn't necessarily equate to happiness for all ... for some women it's because they know no other way ... when they do ... many will evolve beyond it ...

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 6:50:42 PM

PsyVamp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

In fact, I'd venture to say that nearly half the women who call themselves dommes are really subs or switches. That's not to say that there aren't any dommes in the world, just that I've known quite a few who secretly yearned for their One True Master.

I am SO glad that you said "nearly half" and "quite a few" instead of all, I nearly spit nails!
Actually, I don't mind someone who wants to try to be my "One True Master" , I love a good dominance fight.. as long as I win (which has been always)

To the OP:
I don't know why or if "most" woman (who are not vanilla) are submissive, maybe it has to do with Christian upbringing or influence, I won't comment on things I do not know. I only know that I am a dominant woman and submission isn't in my nature.

Psy... aka Lady Jag

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 6:52:25 PM

adoracat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

Interesting topic...
Not having opportunity to attend many lifestyle functions, i can't really debate too much on that, however the few i have been to - the majority were couples, then Doms and the smallest group was subs, and they were primarily women.

i don't buy conditioning for my generation but perhaps my mother's gen. i was raised by her to be Dominant Woman in all ways and if i wanted to, i believe i could be a pretty decent Domme, however my heart would not be in it. i would be coming at it from trying to have some control over how my relationships would turn out. Handing over control to those that don't do so well with it - has left me jaded that the "elusive" Dominant even exists. Lets just say, i can narrow down to 2 that i know personally and have served...not very many~

i'm not sure of what your generation is (i was born in the early 60's), but i can assure you that in my case, i was conditioned.

my father (may he fry in hell) WAS the center of the household. and mama raised me to treat him so. he came home, and if i wasnt making dinner, my first job was to take off his shoes and socks, and massage his feet. clip his toenails if they needed it, put the athletes' foot stuff on his toes. every single day.

fetch and tote for him so that he didnt have to raise a finger, and that's just the way things were. i still do that. i do it for Daddy when he's here, i do it for my husband when he's home every day. (hubby swears he hates it, but if i DONT do it, he's not happy either. *eyeroll* men!)

i'm not happy when i am asked to not act submissively. i'm just happy that i've found my place with Daddy, where i am accepted and loved for who i am.

(but of course this is all how i am, and doesnt pertain to anyone else, or anyone else's experience. your milage may vary, and all those other disclaimers.)

kitten, content.

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 6:57:09 PM

PsyVamp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
The poker is on the top.
The pokee is on the bottom.

The "pokee" is not always on the bottom... at least not from what I remember last night

quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1

I don't really like the terms but I'm a sadist and a masochist. That doesn't make me a switch.
And no enjoying a good hard fucking doesn't make me submissive.

*claps* Very Well Stated.

And to MidnightMaiden...
I am a single parent.. the only one to handle the money, the house, the job, the lunches, the homework...doctors, dentists, sick days, sick dogs... And I'm the one at work with the most experience.
I still don't give up control at the end of the day.
I can accept a shoulder to lean on, I can delegate responsibility and I will accept help when its offered. But I will not, can not let other people make decisions for me. I cannot let another person tell me what to do... it isn't in my nature and it annoys the hell out of me when people try to do it.

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 7:00:10 PM

RosesHaveThorns

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Actually, now that I think about it...I have no edvidence to back up this claim, but would a woman who is shy and just dipping her toes into BDSM first go in as a sub, if she thinks that dommes are these man-hating psychos, and that good girls do what their men tell them to? (Not that either is true, mind you)

Or is this completely and utterly untrue for most cases?

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 7:23:18 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

Why would you assume that most women are subs? Blanket statements as such are going to result in some heavy backlash so be warned.

According to the statistics compiled by Trevor Jacques, most women in the lifestyle are indeed submissives. In fact, they comprise the largest segment of the BDSM community.

John

I have always thought there were more women in the lifestyle that are submissive.
IMHO I think it is because many women are just "wired" that way.
There is no right or wrong answer here, most people are picking the role that
fullfills there need.
On the flip side, I think there are more male Dominants than male submissives,
I could be wrong.
I keep laughing at this "how we were raised crap".
Unless you are oppressed or in an oppressive society, many of us are being true to who we are.
I was born a Dominant spirirt, my parents can tell you that.
Many people are cradle to the grave, regardless of how they were "raised".
At what point are you just "authentic" to the real spirit and essence of "who and what" you are?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/23/2007 7:42:55 PM >

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 7:25:19 PM

PsyVamp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RosesHaveThorns

Actually, now that I think about it...I have no edvidence to back up this claim, but would a woman who is shy and just dipping her toes into BDSM first go in as a sub, if she thinks that dommes are these man-hating psychos, and that good girls do what their men tell them to? (Not that either is true, mind you)

Or is this completely and utterly untrue for most cases?

Oh, I know that the phrase "man hating psychos" is not true... I adore men
They are beautiful when they are tied down and helpless...

I guess it would depend on your definition of "shy". I never thought about coming into this as a submissive, but then again, I was only acting in my natural manner (and hadn't thought about the "typical" sub or domme in the way you described them as I had never got any information at all at the time I started playing).

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 7:30:38 PM

RosesHaveThorns

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Apologies to anyone who thinks that I meant that to be true of Dommes. What I tried to convey, and failed at, is if people are infulenced either by cultural conditioning or by untrue stereotypes to take on a role that doesn't suit them when they first get into BDSM?

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 7:34:45 PM

came4U

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Girls have been raised to be pleasers or nurturers. Depending on the generation that raised you and the generation that you were raised within, that varies on how much of any actions or thoughts a girl turned woman would want to give into a totalitarian relationship.

Dommes as previous subs? It could be that some were raised as such, tried to be all and everything at a past time but after a feeling of being taken advantage of and/or abuse by a spouse they prefer to not allow power to be swayed in another's direction ever again. A means of self-preservation? Only they know. As long as they stay true to their soul and not their agenda, it is likely harmless to both them and their partner.

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 7:55:00 PM

RRafe

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I'm the reverse-I spend all day working retail-and helping customers. It's a service job-and I do it well. The last thing *I* want to do-is to keep serving people when I'm at home.

I guess it all balances out.

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RE: Why are most women subs? - 10/23/2007 8:05:16 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I'm the reverse-I spend all day working retail-and helping customers. It's a service job-and I do it well. The last thing *I* want to do-is to keep serving people when I'm at home.

I guess it all balances out.

^5 I am right here with you on this one.
Damn skippy on this one.
Can we get some good service here?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/23/2007 8:11:17 PM >

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