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RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 9:34:50 PM

MsMacComb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom

i was curious as to whether a slave in training should be allowed to use the safeword? i think i had indicated i had met a "Dom" recently who had given me two safewords to use during a meeting. When i asked some other bdsm communities whether T/they thought it was acceptable, many said it shouldnt be used because of the slave in training status. A/anyone else's opinions?

A sub (novice or veteran) who is with a master/mistress that doesnt allow safewords is being foolish. A master/mistress who doesnt insist on safewords is irresponsible. If someone is bound or gagged and is having a stroke, panic attack, heart attack, aneurysm or has some sort of mental issues the dom/domme could end up looking at a life sentence. Some may say otherwise, but in my opinion they take this a little to seriously and the desire to exert that much control over someone else should make people very nervous.

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RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 9:39:06 PM

MsMacComb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
The only things safewords offer that normal communication does not is the introduction of ambiguity into a situation where none is ever needed and a false sense of security for newbies and others who don't know any better. They're hardly going to keep someone from becoming a "crime statistic."
~stef

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2006/01/19/defense_in_dominatrix_trial_asks_for_physical_evidence/

Accidents happen, so could a crime. I believe Ted Bundy and a few of his ilk had a little bondage fetish thing going on.

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Post #: 102

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 9:41:07 PM

moon69

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Hmmmmmm, interesting..... no safe words...... well I guess we'll see you (unfortunately) on the nightly news later on. Hope not......

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Post #: 103

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 9:57:12 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

Accidents happen, so could a crime. I believe Ted Bundy and a few of his ilk had a little bondage fetish thing going on.

None of which has anything to do with safewords. Would a safeword have stopped Michael Lord's heart attack? Would a safeword have made Barbara Asher call for paramedics? Would a safeword have stopped her boyfriend from supposedly dismembering and disposing of the body? Would Ted Bundy (or any of his "ilk") have stopped what they were doing if their victims used a safeword?

Not in this reality.

Aside from garden variety obfuscation, what's your point?

~stef

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Post #: 104

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 10:15:50 PM

Dustyn

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quote:

but she didn't safeword

Has she used a safeword, would you have left her in the chain as long as you did? I'd like tot hink probably not, since you seem to be a reasonable type of guy.

Read what I wrote carefully before loading the howitzer. I never, ever said that it 'would prevent injury' but instead left it implied that it would help prevent some injury. I guess I'll just have to start spelling things out in as many words as possible...

- Dustyn

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Post #: 105

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 11:10:32 PM

CmotDribbler

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I think safewords would be More important while training then afterwards,
while you are in training, neither of you knows the other yet, you don't know whose has what limits, and you must be prepared to make adjusments for each other.
Once you get to know each other more, then maybe you can do without, once you know each others limits and can fully trust the other person with your body.
Though as is stated with other people, I Highly suggest you always have safewords.

Dribbler

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Post #: 106

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 11:17:45 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

A master/mistress who doesnt insist on safewords is irresponsible.

Let's not speak universally here.

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Post #: 107

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 11:55:14 PM

MsMacComb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Let's not speak universally here.

Umm, its my opinion so I just did.

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Post #: 108

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 11:59:07 PM

yourMissTress

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Using fast reply, this is in response to no one in particular.

I like safewords. But they only work if the D and the s agree to use them and honor them.

I have seen D's that don't hear safewords, don't honor safewords, or get irritated when they hear it and simply choose to continue. Believe me when I tell you that I know and remember each of them. That is a behavior that I find reprehensible and unforgivable. An abuse of power and one of the more abhorent practices of a bad Dom/me.

I have seen subs that just flat out refuse to use them. It's a matter of honor to them that they can and will take whatever the D gives them. It's stupid, vain, and dangerous. I have seen subs that pass out on the cross because they can. Because they are playing with someone new and they just want to be taken all the way and don't care. I have been in negotiations with subs that say they don't want a safeword. I will not play without one. I won't play anyone without a safeword unless W/we've been to the edge together. If not, then you and I need a safeword.

Safewords are like the umbrella you keep in the trunk of your car. You may never ever use it, but if you need it, you are damn glad it was there.

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Post #: 109

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 12:00:14 AM

ServiceNTucson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

jillwfsub4blkdom

everyone in Alternate Lifestyles has safewords Dominants submissives slaves period.

ANYONE whom (sic) does NOT have a safeword is NOT practicing S.S.C. which means in OUR Lifestyle SAFE SANE CONCENSUAL. safe words are for All and can and will be used by ALL when needed at anytime.

IF you jillwfsub4blkdom find a Dominant whom (sic) dont agree send em MY WAY and ILL getem STRAIGHT.

(Editted for legibility by ServiceNTucson)

I find this post a perfect example of "lifestylers" dictating what's right for everybody, a practice which anybody who's read some of my posts will realize I disapprove of.

There are many of us who do NOT worship at the alter of "SSC." The problems I have with SSC are: "Safe" There are inherent dangers in many of the things we do. Therefore, many types of BDSM play are NOT completely safe. "Sane" Who defines "sanity?" According to many in the vanilla world, we're ALL battier than a belfry. I do agree with "Consent," although there is such a thing as consensual non-consent, a concept I like a lot.

The standard I vastly prefer to SSC is known as RACK. (Risk Aware Consensual Kink.) This involves learning the dangers inherent in various actions, accepting them, and being willing to deal with the consequences if something goes wrong (as something eventually will.)

As for safewords, I'm of two minds. I'm certainly not opposed to them, for those who feel they need them. I do think that for a Dominant to give a submissive a safeword, then not honor it is a danger sign. As for myself, I've never used a safeword and cannot foresee myself doing so. But then again, I'm not the kind of bottom who gets into the "'Please don't!' 'Please stop!' and have it ignored" thing. For those who are into that sort of thing, yes, a safeword is essential.

I'm more of a "take whatever She's dishing out" kind of pain slut. If, during a "scene," I thought I might be getting close to having a heart attack, then I'd say, "I think I'm about to have a heart attack!" rather than "RED!" I do believe in having a Safe Signal for use when gagged or otherwise unable to speak, to let the Dom know that I am TRULY in distress. For that I like the number three. The number three is an international distress signal, three of anything means, "HELP!"

< Message edited by ServiceNTucson -- 5/3/2006 12:01:20 AM >

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Post #: 110

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 12:10:28 AM

MsMacComb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
None of which has anything to do with safewords. Would a safeword have stopped Michael Lord's heart attack? Would a safeword have made Barbara Asher call for paramedics? Would a safeword have stopped her boyfriend from supposedly dismembering and disposing of the body? Would Ted Bundy (or any of his "ilk") have stopped what they were doing if their victims used a safeword?
Not in this reality.
Aside from garden variety obfuscation, what's your point?
~stef

For those able to digest and process information the above are whats known as "examples". Some are capable of taking those examples and applying them to other situations that may apply to their own unique set of circumstances. For instance the example of the guy with the heart attack, some would see that as a "what if" they had someone bound and gagged (with no safeword/signal) and that person was experiencing myocardial infarction of the type that would not normally be lethal but could be without urgent treatment. In that "example" a safeword/signal could save that person life.
As to Barbara Ashers conscientious scruples, her grit, her agenda, morals and ability to deal with a crisis she may or may not have called 911 but no doubt I can not say for sure. I would suggest you ask her.
The point of my mentioning Ted Bundy is perhaps out of context. Unless one were to assume that on the off chance someone realized that things were not as they should be, were able to give a signal and then scream if they were able. Odd things happen. Some serial killers are very congenial right up to that last moment. Some like to draw the process out and there is always the hope of convincing them to change their mind, draw attention or to scare them off. So sorry for the oblique referance. It was not an effort on my part to occlude your brains abilities. Anyhow, I'll let you get back to "your" reality.

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Post #: 111

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 4:30:38 AM

Lashra

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Always use safewords or risk getting hurt, badly.

~Lashra

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Post #: 112

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 11:46:12 AM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

For those able to digest and process information the above are whats known as "examples". Some are capable of taking those examples and applying them to other situations that may apply to their own unique set of circumstances.

Your expected ad-hominem attack aside, listing "examples" that don't apply to the topic at hand are generally not of any real value to the discussion. To refresh your memory, you replied to my post where I said that safewords were 'hardly going to keep someone from becoming a "crime statistic." '

How do any of your "examples" apply to that statement?

quote:

For instance the example of the guy with the heart attack, some would see that as a "what if" they had someone bound and gagged (with no safeword/signal) and that person was experiencing myocardial infarction of the type that would not normally be lethal but could be without urgent treatment. In that "example" a safeword/signal could save that person life.

Again, your "what if" scenario does nothing to address my original point. I'm not arguing that the use of some sort of signal wouldn't be useful in the situations where speech is prevented by a gag or some other means.

quote:

As to Barbara Ashers conscientious scruples, her grit, her agenda, morals and ability to deal with a crisis she may or may not have called 911 but no doubt I can not say for sure. I would suggest you ask her.

I don't need to ask her. It's public record that no 911 call was ever made.

quote:

The point of my mentioning Ted Bundy is perhaps out of context. Unless one were to assume that on the off chance someone realized that things were not as they should be, were able to give a signal and then scream if they were able.

Perhaps indeed. Screaming for help in the hope that a third party will hear and come to your aid is not using a safeword.

quote:

Odd things happen. Some serial killers are very congenial right up to that last moment. Some like to draw the process out and there is always the hope of convincing them to change their mind, draw attention or to scare them off.

Yes, I hear stories about serial killers being talked out of killing potential victims all the time. It's a credit to their humanity that serial killers are such dedicated adherents to the SSC doctrine and always use safewords. God bless them!

Thanks for such a useful "example."

If you want to try addressing the original issue I made without the insults and meandering off into Tangentland, I'd honestly like to hear what you have to say on the matter. How can the use of safewords keep someone from becoming a "crime statistic?"

~stef

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Post #: 113

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 11:50:25 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

A sub (novice or veteran) who is with a master/mistress that doesnt allow safewords is being foolish. A master/mistress who doesnt insist on safewords is irresponsible.

A master/mistress who insists on a safe-word is a submissive to the desires of the person who controls the scene defined by the safe-word.

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Post #: 114

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 11:50:36 AM

kittensmailbox

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I WAS TRAINED THAT IF A SUB IS NOT ALLOWED SAFE WORDS THEN THE "Dom" does not know what he/she is doing... Even in many books written on the life style have brought the fact that safe words should be used... "Screw The Roses, Give me the Thorns"... "Different Kind of Loving"... "S/m 101"...

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Post #: 115

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 12:00:46 PM

MsMacComb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
If you want to try addressing the original issue I made without the insults and meandering off into Tangentland, I'd honestly like to hear what you have to say on the matter. How can the use of safewords keep someone from becoming a "crime statistic?"
~stef

Your original sarcastic reply listed 3 things, not one. I replied to all three. I'm not going to list every possible scenario that could exist in the world. To say anything in absolutes regarding this (this portion) is a waste of time. You mentioned that my three examples don't apply to the topic at hand, unless you changed the topic then I think they do. If you can't even stay in focus with your own side of the argument, how is one expected to make a point. Go read your original reply and then resume debating yourself.

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Post #: 116

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 12:02:53 PM

MsMacComb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
A master/mistress who insists on a safe-word is a submissive to the desires of the person who controls the scene defined by the safe-word.

One who places their safety in someone else so hung up on the details you mentioned just graduated from being foolish to being a royal jackass.

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Post #: 117

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 12:28:39 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

One who places their safety in someone else so hung up on the details you mentioned just graduated from being foolish to being a royal jackass.

One who resorts to insult and name calling has no other argument and by definition is the loser of that argument. Pity!

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Post #: 118

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 12:30:53 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

I WAS TRAINED THAT IF A SUB IS NOT ALLOWED SAFE WORDS THEN THE "Dom" does not know what he/she is doing...

I was "trained" to communicate using all the language ability at my disposal. Which do you think is more useful for sharing information?

quote:

Even in many books written on the life style have brought the fact that safe words should be used... "Screw The Roses, Give me the Thorns"... "Different Kind of Loving"... "S/m 101"...

Well golly. If it's in a book, it must be true.

~stef

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Post #: 119

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/3/2006 12:35:40 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom

i was curious as to whether a slave in training should be allowed to use the safeword? i think i had indicated i had met a "Dom" recently who had given me two safewords to use during a meeting. When i asked some other bdsm communities whether T/they thought it was acceptable, many said it shouldnt be used because of the slave in training status. A/anyone else's opinions?

Since I can't read minds and I can't read auras to tell me who someone's body is doing, safewords of all forms are important ways to communicate without feeling like you break up the flow of scene.

Fox still has a stop word and occasionally I'll ask him to use a slowword or an intensity term or number to give me feedback.

He hasn't used his stopword in, I can't remember the last time frankly.

After some years though you get to know each other pretty well and I suspect other ways of communicating develop and limits and boundaries change.

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Post #: 120

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