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RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 3:23:01 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		Repeat after me.

I will always, always, always, have safe words.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to Veryfewcan)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 3:25:50 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Repeat after me.

I will always, always, always, have safe words.


~clears muh throat and uses muh best imitation voice~  i will always always always have a safeword


_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 3:35:44 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom

i was curious as to whether a slave in training should be allowed to use the safeword?
 
Yes, of course a slave or sub in training needs safewords.
 
 i think i had indicated i had met a "Dom" recently who had given me two safewords to use during a meeting.
 
A very good action on his part.
 
When i asked some other bdsm communities whether T/they thought it was acceptable, many said it shouldnt be used because of the slave in training status. A/anyone else's opinions?


Horsefeathers!  Newbies are the very people most in need of safewords.
 
Do you want to be a crime statistic waiting to happen or alive and kicking?
 
-Vendaval-

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 3:40:46 PM   
foxnotinsox


Posts: 84
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: eastern Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		When I ran play parties, we had the traffic light safewords for the bottoms as part of the rules .. plus MayDay which could be used by anybody at anytime .. say if somebody fainted.

I believe part of the training should be in learning how to safeword ..
how to signal you are in trouble,
how to communicate it, and
how to deal with it ...
else it's just some guy whacking at ya with no indication on when to stop or slow down.
Dangerous stuff ...

And so-called "punishment scenes" in which one is not "permitted" to safeword or to stop the action .. makes me shakes my head in wonderment .. that these guys keep on getting away with it. The best thing you can do is leave and walk away .

... and then <evil grin> go out and paint the town RED !


_____________________________

oxox,foX
Veni vidi veni

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 4:00:18 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Horsefeathers!  Newbies are the very people most in need of safewords.
 
Do you want to be a crime statistic waiting to happen or alive and kicking?

Oh please.

The only things safewords offer that normal communication does not is the introduction of ambiguity into a situation where none is ever needed and a false sense of security for newbies and others who don't know any better.  They're hardly going to keep someone from becoming a "crime statistic."

~stef


_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 4:41:39 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Oh please.

The only things safewords offer that normal communication does not is the introduction of ambiguity into a situation where none is ever needed and a false sense of security for newbies and others who don't know any better.  They're hardly going to keep someone from becoming a "crime statistic."

~stef



Your words fall on deaf ears.  People "in the know" know that safewords are the cornerstone to safety, and without them, newbie slaves will spontaenously combust.

The fact that newbies really shouldn't be jumping into intense resistance play, which is about the only thing safewords are any good for, doesn't mean a thing to them.

The fact that telling a slave in training that "no means no" and "stop means stop" and "more means more" makes a lot more sense than "yellow means slow" and "red means stop" and "hoo chi mamma" means "my husband is coming", doesn't mean a thing to them.

The fact that things like SSC and safewords are more for those who are "in the know" than for anyone's real safety, doesn't mean a thing to them.  How dare you question them...

All the worlds a stage, and all the men and women merely players.  Your role is of one wise and unheard...they are the allknowing...*wink*  I'd rather be you.

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 4:49:14 PM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

jillwfsub4blkdom

everyone in Alternate  Lifestyles has safewords Dominants submissives slaves period.

 
Not true.
 
quote:

ANYONE whom doesNOT have a safeword is NOT practicing S.S.C. which means in OUR Lifestyle SAFE SANE CONCENSUAL.
 
This is probably true.
 
However, "SSC" is not the be-all, end-all, and I prefer those I play with *not* recite this mantra ad infinitum.
 
quote:

IF you jillwfsub4blkdom find a Dominant whom  dont agree send
em MY WAY and ILL getem STRAIGHT.


Hooray for One True Way-ism in action.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 5:03:44 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		If safewords aren't allowed, be prepared for hospital bills and investigatiosn on alleged abuse, which in some states can be started not by 'abused' but by the medical officials that tend to your injuries...

- Dustyn


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 5:17:18 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

If safewords aren't allowed, be prepared for hospital bills and investigatiosn on alleged abuse, which in some states can be started not by 'abused' but by the medical officials that tend to your injuries...



And just how would safewords protect you in this case?  Would they have magically prevented the injury?  Are you somehow implying that they would provide legal shelter? (If you were, you would be wrong.)

Open communication with real words that mean what everyone thinks they mean is a far better safety net than any system of safewords will ever be.

I have been in this thing for a while now, and I have yet to see or hear of one real life scene (not involving heavy role or resitance play) that was demostrably made safer by the use of arbitrarily defined safewords.  I would love for someone to enlighten me...I am always willing to learn.

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 5:23:31 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		Words do not deflect arrows, so to speak... but in this type of relationship, the EASIEST way to get injured is to keep one's trap shut, either physically or proverbially...

here's a bland, but probable, scenario...

erotic asphixiation... go to far and the person dies... if you use a tap out signal, the other person should, in theory, release the pressure... doesn't mean they HAVE to, but there is a better chance of living through the experience if you use some of the grey matter as more than a hat rack...

just my take on it...

- Dustyn


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 5:37:17 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

Words do not deflect arrows, so to speak... but in this type of relationship, the EASIEST way to get injured is to keep one's trap shut, either physically or proverbially...


And do you honestly believe that safewords encourage abundant communication during a scene?

Let me give you an example from my past.  When I was very very new to this, I had a slave.  We went to the hardware store and bought some chain.  My slave spent 4 or 5 hours in the chain, and toward the end, I could tell she wasn't in the right headspace, but she didn't safeword (and we had quite a collection of them to communicate her state of mind) so I figured everything was ok.  It really wasn't.

During the aftercare, she confessed that she was getting bad cramps and was very very uncomfortable.  So I asked, "Why didn't you safeword?" and she replied "I didn't even think about it."  I was crushed.  I had no intention of hurting my slave (at least in ways I didn't intend :-)  and realized that safewords were no better, and perhaps an actual impediment, than plain old communication.  I don't do resistance play, so why should I make up words that mean other things when I can just use the normal word?

Since then, I have spoken to many bottoms and many have said that during play they have not used a safeword when they wanted to communicate discomfort because 1) they forgot the word 2) they were in subspace and wen't non-verbal or 3) they felt that using a safeword was a failure.  What could possibly be less safe than a system where the one giving the pain is relying on the bottom to safeword when they have had enough, and the bottom refuses to give that signal because they feel like it would be a failure.

Now, whenever I play, I make it crystal clear that "no means no", "stop means stop", and "ouch means ouch".  (I also make it clear that "ouch" does not mean "stop". *wink*)  This has worked far better for me than safewords ever did.


quote:


erotic asphixiation... go to far and the person dies... if you use a tap out signal, the other person should, in theory, release the pressure... doesn't mean they HAVE to, but there is a better chance of living through the experience if you use some of the grey matter as more than a hat rack...



So you have an example that actually involves a "safeword"?

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 5:42:16 PM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		i had a safeword until i was formally [permanantly] collared, but i retired it on my own. i am sure D would have let me keep it but i never used it and also felt it hindered my willingness to serve. i am always allowed though to speak up if i am about to embark on some kind of unintentional permanent damage of any kind.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 6:57:44 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I do Scenes with several heavy masochists, and safe words are absolutely used.
I know these people well, and can tell a great deal by their breathing and body
language.  They like having the limits pushed, but do use the "yellow" or "red"
safe word when the impact is too strong or the blows fall too fast.
 
Sometimes "yellow" means a change of position, adjusting the bondage gear,
or giving them some water to drink.  In Scenes where the sub is gagged, then
dropping an object or snapping fingers works.  I have heard "Red" rarely,
and that is usually because of a psychological limit rather than a physical one.
 
I also use the 1- 10 scale of pain with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest.
This method is especially useful with newbies who frequently have only a vague
idea of how much is not enough or too much.
 
Regards,
 
-Vendaval-
 


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

Words do not deflect arrows, so to speak... but in this type of relationship, the EASIEST way to get injured is to keep one's trap shut, either physically or proverbially...

- Dustyn



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 7:03:14 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		I totally believe in safewords, although I have never had to use one.  A new person is especially needing these, like training wheels when learning to ride a bike.  

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 7:09:16 PM   
MsPoetress


Posts: 1066
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Not everyone believes in safe words. However, if you are going to use safewords, it surely would be with a slave in training. Once a slave has been trained to her Master/Owner's likes and (assumably) he learns her limits as well, safewords can usually be dispensed with.


I agree with TallDarkAndWitty on this one. In training there should always be 'safewords' established.

That was the first thing my husband and I did. Now that we have come to know each other's boundaries and limits, it is not as much as an issue.

~poe

< Message edited by MsPoetress -- 5/2/2006 7:12:00 PM >

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 8:38:27 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Diamond Diva,

My favorite safe word - OUCH! Or if she is gagged or blindfolded I use a visual safe word, like "Isn't that your bone coming through your skin?"

My problem with the whole safe word concept is that while you are considering what stage of the stoplight aren't you missing out on the experience? And from the Dom's point of view, at least this one being that I hate surprises of this nature, I would want to start at a Red point and work my way back-wards. And loving a challenge, what does that say about a Dom's intensity if he doesn't at least hit "Amber/Orange"?

I say, instead of learning safe words, take you time and learn your partner. During a session - read them, touch them, whisper to them and have them respond. Everyone, even if it's been 20+ years ago, has romanced and been with a new vanilla partner. Before being romantic with them did you have a checklist of where you can/cannot touch, kiss, caress? No - a good lover has no script. A good lover reads the reactions of the partner, reacts to them, and expands the sensations.

There is no difference with a good Dom. A good Dom makes love to the sub not only with his/her body, but with their mind. The floggers, whips, clips, etc, are mere props. I wouldn't want to be a part of the process if my sub was ever thinking about a safe word instead of me and the feeling.

Merc


Wow this is a really old post but this thread was brought to the surface so I read it...and I have to say, what a fantastic post.  Merc, you expressed what I had trouble expressing earlier.  I have never had a safe word (and one here on CM asked me if I was stupid or insane for that).  My Master took the time to know me and read me and know exactly when to pull back and when to push forward...exactly as you have stated.

Thank you for your words.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 8:41:22 PM   
unquenchable


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline 		I would not play without a safeword.  Though I have seldom needed to use it.

un--------

(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 9:14:50 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		Safewords do not exist to defend the submissive.  Good god, if the submissive is in need of defending while in subspace, he or she is in trouble.  i don't think i could defend myself if you had a gun to my head durring those times.
 
No, a safeword exists for BOTH parties.  For the submissive, it exists so that if things get to be too much, he or she can use it to stop the scene.  Again, W/we are assuming that the Dominant will adhere to the SSC rules, if not, it's not BDSM, it's abuse. 
 
For the Dominant, it exists so that He or She can know the submissive has a out...and can thus feel free to push and prod at the submissive's limits.
 
Question:
 
Do you also establish a non-verbal safeword?

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to unquenchable)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 9:22:32 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Repeat after me.

I will always, always, always, have safe words.


Here's a thought:
(all submissives/slaves raise your right hand and repeat)  "I will always, always, always communicate when I am unable to tolerate any more."
(all dominants raise your right hand and repeat) "I will always, always, always pay attention to what is happening with my submissive/slave and stop before I need to call 911 or the therapist." 

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? - 5/2/2006 9:28:08 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

jillwfsub4blkdom

everyone
in
Alternate
Lifestyles
has safewords
Dominants
submissives
slaves
period.
ANYONE
whom
doesNOT
have
a
safeword
is
NOT
practicing
S.S.C.
which
means
in
OUR
Lifestyle
SAFE
SANE
CONCENSUAL.
safe
words
are
for
All
and
can
and
will
be
used
by
ALL
when
needed
at
any
time.
IF you
jillwfsub4blkdom
find
a Dominant
whom
dont
agree
send
em MY
WAY
and
ILL
getem
STRAIGHT.


LOL... MistressDread... this response... makes me miss the bright colors you use to use...


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 100
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