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Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 9:31:15 AM

SassySarijane

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There've been a lot of discussions on Topping from the bottom. I've seen threads on it on message boards and seen it thrown into threads about other things. I've seen discussions on it in various D/s discussion groups. I saw this topic brought up in a slightly different way than usual. Instead of the usual what is it, it was brought up that it's being used by doms when subs they don't own and barely, if even, know ask questions in the getting to know each other stage. The dom will tell them they are topping from the bottom to avoid answering questions.

If they aren't involved in a dynamic with and submitting to the dom, then how can they honestly be topping from the bottom? They are on equal ground until the choice is made to submit and the dynamic of the relationship set. I've always seen topping from the bottom as deliberately manipulating the dom for the sub to get what they want and to have the control in the relationship dynamic. I'm not talking about the sub asking the dom for what they want openly and straight out either. I mean deliberate manipulation.

What I've seen over and over is that topping from the bottom is a vastly overused and misused term both in and out of relationships. It's used all too often as a bad way to control a sub or slave. As generic example: Dom doesn't want to hear it? The sub's topping from the bottom. Dom doesn't want to answer questions? Again, that's the sub topping from the bottom. And then added to that, they want to punish the sub for it.

Do others see this too? What are your thoughts on the topic? How do you define topping from the bottom? Do you believe it exists? Do you think it's overused and misused?

I honestly believe it exists, but is so much rarer than it's portrayed to be.

That's my view of this.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 9:35:16 AM

DaddyKeeper

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Oddly enough, its almost compulsory for me in the early stages of a relationship.

It allows me to quickly and safely find out what a partner wants and needs, whilst still being fun and allowing the (hopefully) eventual dynamic somewhere to put down roots

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 9:38:07 AM

Dnomyar

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DaddyKeeper can't you just ask your partner what she wants. Does the word communication mean anything.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 9:43:58 AM

RCdc

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It is often used as a derogatory term and you will often find those that use it in a negative way also use the words 'vanilla', 'community' and 'lifestyle'. Also those that use it in a mainly negative way may also use the terms 'doormat' and 'SAMs' negatively, talk much about 'the one' and suggest that BDSM relationships are far better, have better communication and are more openminded than any other kind.

Thus endeth the lesson.

the.dark.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 9:46:57 AM

KatyLied

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My opinon of domiants who run to the "topping from the bottom" excuse when dealing with the submissives is that they are weak. They can't/don't want to take the time to learn about someone, what pushes their buttons, to listen/learn. So when a girl disagrees or wants to discuss they immediately think she's topping from the bottom.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 9:58:24 AM

SassySarijane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

It is often used as a derogatory term and you will often find those that use it in a negative way also use the words 'vanilla', 'community' and 'lifestyle'. Also those that use it in a mainly negative way may also use the terms 'doormat' and 'SAMs' negatively, talk much about 'the one' and suggest that BDSM relationships are far better, have better communication and are more openminded than any other kind.

Thus endeth the lesson.

the.dark.

Good lesson

.

I know what you mean. I've definitely seen those correlations and had some eye rolling moments with a few.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 9:59:19 AM

ProlificNeeds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

My opinon of domiants who run to the "topping from the bottom" excuse when dealing with the submissives is that they are weak. They can't/don't want to take the time to learn about someone, what pushes their buttons, to listen/learn. So when a girl disagrees or wants to discuss they immediately think she's topping from the bottom.

Dito. Weak dominants allow it to happen. Wise dominants sit down and talk out difficulties they have with their submissive, and the power exchange can then be put into healthy perspective. "You're topping from the bottom" comes off as someone whining. I agree however it is waaay over used, and some people who use it don't even realize what it really means in it's negative context. But if a dominant whines about being topped from the bottom then they probably deserve it for allowing it to happen instead of being a big bad domly dom!

Noooow however if we're talking non-negative context, and your dynamic includes some topping from the bottom, or does that make the illusionary top a service top...? *confused* Then it can be a really fun thing to do!

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 9:59:37 AM

SailingBum

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I have had a number of subs explain to me that early in a relationship they will attempt to top them to check out the dom. To make sure that the dom is "strong enuff" to control them. Kinda like a test of the doms inner strength.

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 2/26/2008 10:03:26 AM >

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:12:30 AM

juliaoceania

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Your example aside, I do not really know what topping from the bottom really means because I think we all try to manipulate the world around us to some degree ,either unconsciously or consciously, to get what we want. Human beings, in my opinion, are born into this world learning to manipulate the world around them in order to get needs and wants met. Anyone who thinks they are not "topping from the bottom" is just lying to themselves in my mind.

Now in your example, someone who would tell me I was topping from the bottom to evade telling me information wouldn't ever dominate me. If someone does not want to answer a question, they can just outright tell me that this is something they do not want to talk about... otherwise they are bottoming from the top.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:13:02 AM

Justme696

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Actually I think I agree with the OP
to much talk about it.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:15:38 AM

GreedyTop

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heh. When I've been accused of topping from the bottom, my response is this:
No, I am simply making you aware of my wants and needs.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:17:27 AM

beargonewild

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~FR~

It's my thoughts that in most cases, a person being accused of topping from the bottom is a too convenient of an excuse that is placed on a person, whether they are a sub or they are a bottom. It's my belief that a dom frequently uses this ploy as a means to exert control over his/her sub in a slightly devious manner. Yes there are people who are manipulative in a relationship and will
deliberately control as much as they believe they can get away with. These are the type who with do this in a D/s or a vanilla relationship.
It is expected that in a new relationship, both the dom and the sub are getting to know their partner. The basic likes/dislikes in habits, food, personality, likes/dislikes in play, limits, etcetera. So logically, in the beginning, a sub will be fairy vocal in stating what they like, dislike, hate. I see this as a transitional phase mainly because the sub is learning to fit better in their role as their dom's property. Seems to me that to accuse a sub of topping from the bottom is a grave injustice. I wonder how many instances where a sub's input on the relationship from their view is asked for and the dom upon hearing this, becomes quite displeased and then turns around and punishes the sub for topping form the bottom?

How I interpret topping from the bottom is a state where the submissive sets out or deliberately tries to changes the agreed upon
dynamics of their relationship. A good example of this is a sub always asking for a specific type of play even though the sub had
consistently stated a variety of interests in types of play. Another example is a dom punishing the sub for a legitimate offense and the sub using emotional blackmail with hopes of receiving a lighter punishment.
Far too often I see in other forums the mindset of subs and doms who have the attitude of it's my way or the highway, absolutely no ifs ands or buts. We all have to keep in mind that all relationships we have to have compromise and tolerance for our partner.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:18:44 AM

GreedyTop

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well said, Bear!

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:24:20 AM

SassySarijane

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I second GreedyTop. Very well said and exactly what I'm trying to say. Thanks Bear.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:32:56 AM

xxblushesxx

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I'm with the girls on this one.
Which means I'm with the bear.
especially this part: It's my belief that a dom frequently uses this ploy as a means to exert control over his/her sub in a slightly devious manner.
This usually happens with 'doms' who are insecure with themselves imo.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:33:04 AM

camille65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane
<bunches snipped>
Instead of the usual what is it, it was brought up that it's being used by doms when subs they don't own and barely, if even, know ask questions in the getting to know each other stage. The dom will tell them they are topping from the bottom to avoid answering questions.

If they aren't involved in a dynamic with and submitting to the dom, then how can they honestly be topping from the bottom? They are on equal ground until the choice is made to submit and the dynamic of the relationship set. I mean deliberate manipulation.

Do others see this too? What are your thoughts on the topic? How do you define topping from the bottom? Do you believe it exists? Do you think it's overused and misused?

I honestly believe it exists, but is so much rarer than it's portrayed to be.

That's my view of this.

When used in that manner, yes I see it as a poorly done attempt at manipulation from the dominant.As to it being an overused term in general I don't know because I do see it in action quite a bit.People trying to manipulate a particular reaction by performing (or not performing) in a manner guarenteed to do just that. I see it in a lot of threads in varying degrees. I consider it a blatent form of deliberate miscommunication, holding back knowledge or feelings by the 's' in order to steer things the way they want often covered by the idea of 'well I wanted to prevent the D from knowing how I feel because it may upset them'. Some will probably say that I am completely wrong which is okay, but I do see that as TFB because they are conciously acting in a way to make things go in a certain direction instead of simply being honest or even more simply, trusting that the dominant can handle things.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 10:40:52 AM

SassySarijane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
align]People trying to manipulate a particular reaction by performing (or not performing) in a manner guarenteed to do just that. I see it in a lot of threads in varying degrees. I consider it a blatent form of deliberate miscommunication, holding back knowledge or feelings by the 's' in order to steer things the way they want often covered by the idea of 'well I wanted to prevent the D from knowing how I feel because it may upset them'. Some will probably say that I am completely wrong which is okay, but I do see that as TFB because they are conciously acting in a way to make things go in a certain direction instead of simply being honest or even more simply, trusting that the dominant can handle things.

I don't think you're wrong in that. The manipulation to control the relationship or aspects of it or situations is TFTB. I don't dispute it's existance at all, I've just seen it both overused and misused all too often when what is being called TFTB isn't.

< Message edited by SassySarijane -- 2/26/2008 10:44:03 AM >

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 11:18:35 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane
Do others see this too? What are your thoughts on the topic? How do you define topping from the bottom? Do you believe it exists? Do you think it's overused and misused?

Topping from the bottom: a dysfunctional situation when the self-proclaimed dominant lacks the testicular endowment to follow through with his chosen role.

It occurs whenever one makes the mistake of assuming that a submissive lacks strength of will or strength of character, and is ill-prepared to contend with her fully-formed personality.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 11:21:15 AM

GreedyTop

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane
Do others see this too? What are your thoughts on the topic? How do you define topping from the bottom? Do you believe it exists? Do you think it's overused and misused?

Topping from the bottom: a dysfunctional situation when the self-proclaimed dominant lacks the testicular endowment to follow through with his chosen role.

It occurs whenever one makes the mistake of assuming that a submissive lacks strength of will or strength of character, and is ill-prepared to contend with her fully-formed personality.

*snort*

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RE: Topping from the Bottom Misused and Overused? - 2/26/2008 11:29:34 AM

SassySarijane

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He has such a way with words doesn't he, GreedyTop?

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