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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 3:37:04 AM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		Umm...with ALL the problems this guy has...You wanna zero in on the dick??? Typical. 
~tulip

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 3:47:38 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Umm...with ALL the problems this guy has...You wanna zero in on the dick??? Typical. 
~tulip


If he gets his health in order, he may feel good enough about himself to fix alot of his other problems. If the diabetes continues ravaging him, not much else is going to matter.....
 
Happy Friday, tulip

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 3:59:25 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Using FR, because I have to deal with some real life issues.

Because I am a woman only interested in women, and because lots of men don't read, I get a great deal of interesting communications. Add to that, my warped sense of humour, and you can see a recipe for even more interesting communications.

Woman from the UK writes and says she is independently wealthy, wants to sell her vast income property empire in London and buy a large old house here. Create a very real dungeon and support me in the style I wish I was accustomed so I can keep her locked in said dungeon and torture her severely while dressed as a Nazi. Me being me.....decides it would be fun to find out more about this insane creature. Hates her dead parents, woships the Goddess Lillith, is jewish and parents or grands survived Nazi Germany. Is physically quite lovely. May or may not own this property she inherited from parents. Likes extreme physical torture. Ultimately wants to be tortured to death by means I would never contemplate. In addition to that whole death, dealing with a dead body mess......EWWWW!

Okay, now anyone that knows me, knows that even if this were a reality for her, it's sure as hell not mine. But now that I know she is serious, even if only in her little fantasy land. I start asking questions like......What about MY JOB, MY health insurance, car payment, mortgage, fun and thrills with the IRS, etc etc etc........ You are begging for me to quit my job and live in a farm you purchase with your money.... then die. What about my retirement plan? My etc etc etc..... Do I get some sort of financial package to ensure my ongoing life expenses (seemed she didn't plan on having any) Not to mention......the big black impending cloud of expensive legal bills I see for realizing your plan. Something you don't have to worry about because you are planning to be DEAD!

Or, the guy that wants me to spend my time lounging about eating bonbons holding a key to a cage for his dick, while I wait for him to show up so I can torture said dick. Oh, and I am supposed to take lots of compromising photos of him to blackmail him for lots of money too.

Or the many many girls that love the idea of moving to my happy little farm and being kept locked up 24/7 but havent a clue how they will be fed, clothed, provided medical care for etc. Because even though they want 24/7 for the rest of their life they assume because "I am very healthy Ma'am." now, that they won't have serious medical costs at any point in the rest of their life.

Just a few examples of the many people that contact me off the top of my bed tousled head.

I don't have a detailed laundry list. Not gonna make one. Yes I prefer to visit a bit and find out their unique situation. BUT, I am still a realist. I think beyond the moment. If that turns away a large number of starry eyed nubile slave girls that have some romantic novel of being swept away and kept without a worry beyond their service to me for the rest of their lives. GOOD!! I don't neeeeeed them to make my life full, happy and complete. I am simply offering it to anyone that is interested and has a reasonable grip on reality. MY version of reality.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 4:11:21 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Or the many many girls that love the idea of moving to my happy little farm and being kept locked up 24/7 but havent a clue how they will be fed


Tell them it'll be possum for dinner.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 4:19:36 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I kill it, they gotta clean it and cook it.........while I am eating a grilled ribeye and salad.

Hopefully they've watched enough Andrew Zimmern.....

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 4:24:19 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Heh heh, I think that'd cure a few of them, LT.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 4:33:21 AM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

This post comes as a result of a very heated one yesterday ( on another thread) --I hope we hear from a lot of varying situations regarding this---I think its worth a read from everyone out there---we recently in a variety of threads have discussed work or no work--it seems more in the Domina,male sub area--and I want to bring some reality here.
 
IMHO, in a 24/7 live-in or close relationship--90% of real life still exists--and bills have to be met/paid--though I personally can easily afford the main household bills, I still need a boy to work part time AND make sure the following are cared for by him--meaning you better be paying for or have paid for and intend to continue to pay for--( some of this may be rash, but I venture to say, many have not thought this out--and the solid D/s ones HAVE)--and I think this works for either a D or s--food for thought.
 
1. you must have healthcare
                         smokers or drinkers insurance is higher
2. you must have dental insurance
3. you must be able to afford eye exams and eyewear if needed.
4. you must be debt free--if you have a credit card you must be able to pay whatever you charge.
5. you must have a reliable car, legal, inspected ( and your note is not co-signed) and be paying your car insurance
6. you must be able to pay the property tax on said car every year
7. you must have a burial plan or life insurance ( if you have children or other family members, make sure it is paid, the beneficiary named)
8. you will sign a prenup if it comes to that as my estate goes to my UM
9. you must have some kind of Rx insurance
10. ability to pay your income tax  federal and state and all back taxes filed and paid
11. ability to pay all storage fees should you leave things behind or store in the new location
12. gas for your car
13. you may be asked to pay for your cigarettes
14. make sure you have made arrangements and documented what happens to things and who does what
15. any and all tickets, citations, arrests must be cleared up.
16. Any divorce issues resolved and paid for.
 
 
SO reality shatter the fantasy a tad?
 
Thoughts? 
 


What's truly amazing to me about this post is...that any of it needs to be said at all.

When I made 7 bucks an hour as a late teen 20 some years ago, I managed to own real estate.

When I made 10 bucks an hour in my mid 20's, my bills were paid 3 months in advance and I always had 6 months expenses in the bank in reserve.

When I got married in my 30's, she went from paying her bills 2 months late, to having the same as I had (all based on her own income) in under a year and had MORE money to spend after her bills were paid just from a little financial discipline, her car that was always running horribly, was paid off completely in under 2 years and it was replaced by one that didn't fall apart at every red light, and she paid for it with cash.

When we were dating, she told me "it can't be done on what I make".

Yet in under 2 years she'd done it, all by herself, with only one very small 5% raise.

99.9% of everything that happens in life is entirely predictable, yet probably as many people would rather roll the dice on their future than actually read the book (which states in big bold letters on the very last page..."the house always wins").

< Message edited by Griswold -- 3/7/2008 4:41:39 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 4:50:01 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

What's truly amazing to me about this post is...that any of it needs to be said at all.

It's a sign of the times we live in.  I can understand having a laundry list of requirements such as these in a profile.  I've encountered too many who seem drawn to this lifestyle because they seek a fantasy life where someone else will deal with the reality of life while they stay hidden away in a dungeon or a cage or something.  When you ask if they can do something useful, such as cook or clean the house, they quickly lose interest.  I've encountered too many that were buried under debt, owed taxes, owed child support, etc.  All of this seems even worse with online services, which seem to really attract the fantasy seekers.  Its one of the reasons I don't put much stock in online profiles as a way of meeting anyone.

My personal opinion is that anyone who doesn't understand why a dominant would have such requirements simply hasn't been dealing with online profiles long enough.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 6:59:00 AM   
SinergyNstrumpet


Posts: 305
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I have noticed that people who jump into relationships without bothering to take the trouble to find out if the person they are jumping with has the qualities they desire are soon without a partner too. Unfortunately by the time they are without that partner they have usually been hurt or damaged in some way.

By the way, I didn’t see anyone see anyone specifying dollar amounts or model of car here. What I see is someone asking for financial responsibility. This is not superficial. This is a core value.


My responses tp sugarmychurro were not related to Lady Hathor, so why you feel the need to assume they were is beyond me. I was speaking in general of certain replies like this

quote:

<shrug>
That's why I have high standards...so I don't get burned.  I still think the whole thing is strange.  I always assume someone is financially responsible because I am, and if they aren't, why demand it of them?  That's just too risky.  Why not just pass them by?


I live in California, land of the superficial. I have had plenty experience with a mindset that seeks to find a certain "lifestyle" by associating with only those who can keep up with it by virtue of a job that pays excellent wages. Now being economically responsible is a wonderful thing, but there are some of us that put familial obligations in front of a bottom line, and that should be lauded in my mind, not reviled by assuming someone is not responsible.

I have put my family first my entire adult life. I have chosen jobs that may not pay as well to be around for my UM. I put off graduate school to take care of an elderly family member until he passed away. On paper, my life isn't so spectacular. In reality, there is no one more committed than me to those I love. Now there is nothing wrong with having a list of economic credentials that one must pass to be in your life, but from my vantage point it could very well be your loss.

As far as someone becoming a financial responsibility down the line, some of us are not worried about that. Some of us realize the future cannot be predicted. My father was a successful person with a large family. He owned his own real estate business. The market fell apart kinda like it is falling apart today. He lost his business, our home, and because he lost his health insurance he ended up dead. No, life is really unpredictable, and if you are looking for economic security in another person you are really living in the Land of Denial,  that sort of security just doesn't exist.

What I looked for is a person that is committed to his UMs and others that he loves. I looked for someone that could spot my ability to commit too, and I found him. I do not care if he has had some economic bumps in the road, as have I. I do not measure a person's worth to my life on such things because the past is really no predictor of what the future holds. I can tell you, my father was in his 40s when he lost everything, including his life. He was one of the most responsible and hard working people I have ever known.

~Sinergy's strumpet~



(in reply to fornowimjustlook)
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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 7:00:56 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		who'd have thunk it everyones reality is differant from everyone elses
*SHOCK*




_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)
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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 7:05:51 AM   
LadyHathor


Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flower2007


Thoughts?  I'm offended just reading it.  Why on earth would you assume someone DIDN'T have their finances together?  None of those things are even on my radar screen, because they're non-issues.  Why wouldn't I be debt free?  Why wouldn't I pay my taxes?  Why wouldn't I maintain my car as legally required?

I think it's odd you seem to assume a submissive doesn't do all of that to begin with.  And that you assume she/he smokes, drinks, and has an arrest/citation record.  Really, really odd.  I'd be beyond offended that anyone would think that little of me and walk right away from anyone who gave me a list like that.

Maybe I'd just walk away because it shows a definite disparity in how I live my life compared to his.




In the US it is a valid assumption---if everyone had healthcare, it would not be a campaign issue---if everyone was debt free--rising debt in the US would not be a problem, if the divorce rate wasn't sky high, then alimony wouldn't be an issue--if dads paid child support then that wouldnt be an issue, if people filed their taxes, then that would not be an issue, if life insurance was not see as a luxury, then that would not be an issue. If people didn't drink and drive, that would not be an issue, if there weren't 400,000 registered sex offenders in the US, then arrests would nit be an issue--but they are and for me these are things I must look at---
 
...and I provide the same information in return--so its a goose and gander scenario.

_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 7:13:56 AM   
chezzy52


Posts: 220
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline 		Obviously life issues are problems with you and you must have thought about the dick too or you wouldn't have brought it up to begin with...sorry if i seem pissed at the world right now but the OP asked a question and i responded in earnest and honestly.

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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 7:22:02 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I would enter a relationship with the same level of responsibility I now hold myself to.  I don't expect a free ride.  I also do not expect to lose my possessions/assets to another.  I would tread most carefully into any situation where it would be construed that I would owe someone something after a period of cohabitation.  I think anyone with assets/children should safeguard themselves financially before entering into a marriage, to not do so isn't smart, especially when considering the failure rate of marriage.  Before I would consider a living-together arrangement with another person we would have spent a considerable amount of time together, so I don't think I would necessarily have a checklist, as much as I would hope that what I see demonstrated by the other person is the truth of that person.

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 3/7/2008 7:23:06 AM >

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 7:50:26 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Fast Reply!

I am amazed at the poor reading skills of some people in this thread! It was pretty clear to Me from the OP that this is by no means a complete list of ALL that Lady H requires in a sub, I am sure She is also looking for someone whose personality meshes with Hers, who likes similar aspects of bdsm, who has emotional maturity etc etc etc. All She was trying to say, is that in profiles that are often full of bdsm checklists, very few people consider the practical realities of life. And in Her case, these are some of the practical realities She considers when thinking about taking on a permanent 24/7 sub. Obviously they will not all be practicable for everyone, as people have pointed out ad nauseum, not everyone owns a car etc etc etc! That's not the point! The point is that in a 24/7 kind of life, reality bites ... it's not all whips and chains! And it behoves a Dominant (AND a sub!) to consider these aspects in every bit as serious a way as they consider hard limits, safewords and the like! In other words, as Katy said, before you get to the living together stage, by some means or another (and a list is simply one means) ... these sorts of issues need to be discussed or open to view. Lady H wouldn't necessarily have it as a list in Her profile (I haven't checked) ... it could easily be in Her head as things to talk about ... but to open it for discussion here it had to be written down ... creating a laundry list.

It's not a matter of assuming the worst about a sub, or thinking they wouldn't have these things sorted ... it's more a matter of reassuring Oneself that they do! And a sub should do likewise with a future Dominant. I do take stella's point that being too hard and fast doesn't leave much room for breathing space in the relationship ... I could give on some of these things but not all, depending upon what strategies are in place. For eg, someone in Australia who has accumulated a HECS debt (higher education debt) ... I wouldn't count them out as a potential 24/7 permanent sub as that is only repayable once they start earning a certain level of income. As I would intend a sub/slave to have a job (for their own personal growth and development as much as financial reasons) ... then once they attain that income level, the govt takes the money ... it's easy to deal with! However, someone with $100,000 of personal debt and no strategy for repayment? Or someone who gambles regularly and more than they can afford? No thanks! I am not a bottomless pit of money and I'm not going to be suckered into paying off someone else's irresponsibility. In Our Household, everyone contributes and everyone shares the chores and the benefits (and as Master and I have no UMs ... ultimately the estate!).

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 8:18:02 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		my reality is a little different and comes with a slap from the other side...as it stands, i have never been able to hold a job for more than 2.5 weeks (that ended in a mental break down, and i am not eager to test it again, that would be insane - i know the difference between reality and fantasy, i just can't work) and that was after the SS err social security psych doc determined i was quallified for SSI in less than half the time of everyone else i've ever spoken to on the subject, if they get it at all...but that being said...i get a measly check, which though it is the full amount you can get from SSI, is not enough to live on, unless i were to move to a 3rd world country and keep my mailing address the same, and then i could live like a queen...but i do have medicaid...for what it's worth...so...here's my reality...as it stands, i will never be a productive member of society, i will always be financially dependent on someone else, i can't own property of any sort or have anything else in my name worth more than $2000 (incuding a car), i have psych issues that i have been working on dilligently so that they may become non-issues or at least not subscriptions anymore, but as a result of some past behaviors, i know have [more] seizures and fibromyalgia...so my brain has been functioning relatively well, but my body has not...and yet i deal with it....
and then i get on the internet, because it is one of the few things i can do with out being exhausted, though it does hurt my hips, back and shoulders, and it has nothing to do with my posture and everything to do with the fibro....and see someone lecturing about how reality is about being responsible...and lists all these things about how se would expect her submissive to be repsonsible...and i know it's not a personal attack, i am not paranoid...but i am a bit annoyed...because she doesn't have to deal with everyone else's reality, much less my mine...so, no...to the OP, your reality doesn't shatter my fantasy in the least bit...because my fantasy and reality meet up...but i may be an odd one out on that one...i am willing to accept that....

chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 8:31:41 AM   
SinergyNstrumpet


Posts: 305
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

but i am a bit annoyed...because she doesn't have to deal with everyone else's reality, much less my mine...so, no...to the OP, your reality doesn't shatter my fantasy in the least bit...because my fantasy and reality meet up...but i may be an odd one out on that one...i am willing to accept that....


One thing about life, none of us gets out of it alive. If people are not looking for a lifelong commitment, laundry lists of requirements make sense. I think of lifelong commitment like the marriage vows, in sickness and in health.. yadda yadda yadda. We are all just one stroke away from being an unfunctional member of society. Most of us are just one serious illness away from homelessness if not for government programs or friends and family taking us on. People need people.

If a dominant asked me if I had all his economic financial requirements, I wouldn't answer such questions because I was raised not to ask or answer such questions. I would think them shallow to ask in a new situation. I have a car, I pay my bills, I work, and I have health insurance. I am also educated, but I would still find those sorts of questions to be shallow. Just me I know, but knowing how long someone has held a job, what sort of investment plan they have, that information does not tell me how they got to where they are. It does not tell me if they will leave if I got breast cancer.

Chelle, here is the thing, someone that accepts you the way that you are will love you for who you are, not how long you held a job or how good your health insurance is and if they can get put on it. Believe it or not, that is an advantage in some ways. To be loved for the essense of who we are, not what we have, well I think most of us deep down desire that. That is why when you see a couple that started with nothing but each other, and build a life... there is something extraordinarily special about that... they did it together. I wish I would have had that.

~Sinergy's strumpet~

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 8:42:04 AM   
AS11


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		I find it quite interesting that in this post we have a lady that has established a realistic reasonable and logical criteria by which she will consider qualities in another that are in addition to the fundamental requirements she expressed in her opening comment. My question is, does she not have the right to set her own standards, to define for herself the personal characteristics, successes and failures, strengths and weakness's that will measure-up to her standards?
I applaud her for her approach to finding what she wants and requires, I certainly wander down a similar path.

< Message edited by AS11 -- 3/7/2008 8:48:14 AM >

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RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 8:51:47 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Fuck, I'm going to quote my dad, and I really hate that, but here it is anyway...



My father claims that when I was born that my family was living hand-to-mouth. That's a mom, a dad, an older brother, and me - a naked child splashing in the basinette. We lived in Queens, NY and my father began his work life in the U.S. as a dishwasher. He tells a story of walking miles to and from work so that he could save on bus fair so that he could buy milk for me instead.

Pretty crazy, huh? So one day I asked him: "Why didn't you wait to have children until you could afford them more easily?" His reply was simply: "If you wait until everything is perfect, you never accomplish anything."

Wisdom from the late 60s...and some love for the lonelyhearts of 2008.

So yeah, the world just passes you by while you try to herd your cats...


< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 3/7/2008 8:52:47 AM >

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 8:55:42 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Chelle, here is the thing, someone that accepts you the way that you are will love you for who you are, not how long you held a job or how good your health insurance is and if they can get put on it. Believe it or not, that is an advantage in some ways. To be loved for the essense of who we are, not what we have, well I think most of us deep down desire that. That is why when you see a couple that started with nothing but each other, and build a life... there is something extraordinarily special about that... they did it together. I wish I would have had that.

~Sinergy's strumpet~


thanks...to be loved for who i am am, not what i have or what i could be or what i could have or anything else like that...yep...that pretty much covers it....

edited to add: Sugar....as much as you hated doing it, or so you say...i think your dad was a pretty smart guy
"If you wait until everything is perfect, you never accomplish anything."


< Message edited by chellekitty -- 3/7/2008 8:58:10 AM >

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The slap of reality - 3/7/2008 9:06:50 AM   
soul2share


Posts: 7084
Joined: 12/18/2007
From: somewhere out there.....
Status: offline 		I don't see the list as being out of line at all....since I am already doing the things on it, why would I stop simply because I enter into a relationship?  Hell, I'd make sure all of those things were covered in a vanilla relationship!  Any relationship in my opinion should be 50/50.  I was "under consideration" , for lack of a better term, to be moved into the household of someone who wanted me as his.  One thing he insisted upon was that I not work....he would provide everything I needed.  That rubbed me wrong in several ways, first, I'm not out to find someone to support me.  I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself, have been doing so since I moved out of the house to go to college.....independence is important to me....I don't want to end up on the street with nothing.  Second, I have a few minor health issues that I have to deal with on a daily basis, and therefore health insurance is important to me.....I don't want to be a burden on anyone.  Again, it's that whole independence thing.  I want to be able to contribute to the finanacial responsibilities of a relationship.  Giving up my job was a real sticking point between us...besides, I'd go completely out of my mind without a job....unemployment is terrible...great for the first week, then it's like totally mind-numbing!  Eventually, he relented on the job, but life intruded, and things didn't happen the way we were hoping they would.

There is some real truth to the saying "Reality bites", but like it or not, it's always part of the relationships between people.  We all have baggage, and life's little messes to deal with.  But my messes are mine, and I will deal with them as I see fit.  As far as retirement, insurance and other cash benefits, until or unless marriage enters the picture, my son is my beneficiary, and will remain so.  Honestly, I don't see myself ever getting married again.....live in, yes, married no....it's that damn independence thing again....I know, independent sub...a bit of an oxymoron, but I have a feeling that many of you can relate.

_____________________________

I have to stop saying "How stupid can you be?"...people are starting to take it as a challenge!

*Not a fuck was given.*

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)
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