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RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/5/2005 8:59:34 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I also wonder, why can't people be real, genuine, be their true self? I think that it takes a lot of energy and effort to be someone you are not and it will eventually fall apart. I try to be genuine, with the thought (hope) that I will receive that in return. I do realize that it is a naive way to think in cyber space. Yet I truly feel that it is the way I will find what it is I seek.

(in reply to justrelaxd)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/5/2005 12:31:08 PM   
zaynab


Posts: 377
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		Some people get a lot of joy and satisfaction out of deceiving others... THAT in itself is their kink. That's why they do it.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/5/2005 10:10:28 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Conversely, there are many people who assume that another is lying, simple because they can not handle the truth even when it is laid out before them. Such people usually have a very narrow and limited in life experience. Thus some one who has done things which are out of the ordinary becomes suspect. At times it may be easier not to reveal the whole truth and even tell a porky in its place.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Alexander)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/5/2005 11:29:11 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		Boy can I ever relate to that one. I have led a long and not quiet life. Most people simply do not believe that I have done some of the things I have been involved in. Most of the time now I just keep My mouth shut rather then be looked at as if I was lying.

Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/5/2005 11:56:25 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		People are dishonest for two reasons:

1. They're dishonest with themselves--in which case they can't possibly be honest with anyone else.

2. They're not dishonest with themselves, but they're dishonest with others because they think it is easier and they can get away with it.

Number 1 is more interesting to me for various reasons. Mainly, I think we all go through, or have gone through, a phase of Number 1. You can't be honest with yourself until you have gone through the phase of not being honest with yourself, and realized why it leads to an inferior life.

Unfortunately, there are a whole lot of Number 2's out there too, and it's not possible to have a relationship with them. At least you might eventually get a Number 1 to be honest with himself or herself, but it takes a lot of work, and a willing patient.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/6/2005 12:14:41 AM   
luvdragonx


Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Number 1 and number 2 both stink................

_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/6/2005 12:33:55 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GentleLady

Boy can I ever relate to that one. I have led a long and not quiet life. Most people simply do not believe that I have done some of the things I have been involved in. Most of the time now I just keep My mouth shut rather then be looked at as if I was lying.

Gentle Lady


Raises my hat to GentleLady and smiles. "Jai a keh'ra greshak tahem jula. Jan di ashe drena kanta vethuk lina."

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to GentleLady)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/6/2005 2:47:38 AM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		Thank You IronBear

Jai na ven sev a lae an she'vo a porte.
(I hope I spelled that right.)

Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/6/2005 4:50:56 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i'm suprised that anyone is suprised. And unless you can find ways to circumvent it, you will find yourself again and again prey. The behavior of this topic, its quite a normal side of life. Personally i think there are millions of them out there and finding the ones that arent like a needle in a haystack.

Hmmm.. well i lie. To who? Mostly my mother as she cant handle the truth, never could. Lie by omission, heck, i'll even come out straight and lie to her. And if lying by omission is a lie, what do you all think of those who WONT tell their family members of this lifestyle? Or their closest friends? Isnt that a lie of sorts? And havent you the need to lie to "cover" the lifestyle? Personally i think everyone lies. Its the intent of the lie that matters. To do no harm, or to do harm?

Like Master, i think he lies to me sometimes. Why? Because unlike i like to tell myself, i just cant handle some things. So he'll lie about something to protect me, basically from me. Keep me emotionally safe. And actually i appreciate it.

Its the intent that matters. My personal motto is do no harm, unless done to first

(in reply to GentleLady)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/6/2005 5:40:22 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

Boy can I ever relate to that one. I have led a long and not quiet life. Most people simply do not believe that I have done some of the things I have been involved in. Most of the time now I just keep My mouth shut rather then be looked at as if I was lying.

Gentle Lady


Gentle Lady..my life's been "interesting" as well; depending on how much detail i give, i could probably hold someone's attention for say..maybe a couple of hours. But it does not make me interesting now. i'm not so sure it gives much insight into who i have become, since i did not allow circumstances to overwhelm me. So sometimes i share as a way of feeling closer to someone..sometimes i share as a way of breaking down someone's preconceptions (but less and less often for that reason) and generally i share with a Dom or Master if i am interested in Him because i think it would be dishonest not to. Still, as i have said, it does not define me..and does not make me interesting now. That requires daily effort.

P.S. i am not a "Lifetime" movie..so forget about guessing.

pinkpleasures

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RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/6/2005 10:51:31 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yup. They're people you can't have a relationship with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luvdragonx

Number 1 and number 2 both stink................


(in reply to luvdragonx)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 2:18:24 AM   
zaynab


Posts: 377
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GentleLady

Boy can I ever relate to that one. I have led a long and not quiet life. Most people simply do not believe that I have done some of the things I have been involved in. Most of the time now I just keep My mouth shut rather then be looked at as if I was lying.

Gentle Lady


GentleLady?
Isn't that the most irritating thing in the world?!! I don't lie and I've had people tell me that I'm lying so many times, it really makes me mad! If someone thinks I'm lying, they should just get out of my face then. Argh!!!



< Message edited by zaynab -- 8/8/2005 2:21:28 AM >

(in reply to GentleLady)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 5:32:39 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		This is like being accused of doing something you haven't done isn't it? My initial responce is to say, "If you want to fausly accuse me then I may as well go and do it!" Mind you there have been times when I have really thought seriously about do ing what I'm accused of but generally common sence prevails.... Then its off to the punching bag or another work out with my katana to work off the negative energy.... Unless I have to get over laughing myself sick about the twirp who accused me.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to zaynab)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 9:30:24 AM   
zaynab


Posts: 377
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

Like Master, i think he lies to me sometimes. Why? Because unlike i like to tell myself, i just cant handle some things. So he'll lie about something to protect me, basically from me. Keep me emotionally safe. And actually i appreciate it.

Its the intent that matters. My personal motto is do no harm, unless done to first



I ask my Master to lie to me at times, if it will reduce stress for me....

If something stressful is going on and I don't NEED to know...
I definitely prefer to stay on the "need to know only basis".

If I don't need to know, please don't tell me.

_____________________________

zaynab[DM]
quote:

i used to care... but now i take a pill for that

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 10:26:52 AM   
Veav


Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		The way I put it is "lie to the mind, but never to the heart".

I don't have need for blatant lies, but sometimes it is advantageous to be discrete about certain things. For instance, my apartment complex is currently under the impression I do not have cats. This is because they want an exorbitant nonrefundable pet fee for the priviledge - and I've already put down a nice chunky deposit to cover for potential damages. Since these are indoor cats and therefore not causing damage to the property, I see no reason to pay what is effectively a cat tax (and I discussed this with the person in the office before moving in). But that's just a single checkbox on a very long list; no one would lose sleep over it either way.

If I know - or even suspect - that it matters to someone, I don't lie. For people I trust and respect, I simply don't need to. My parents know I'm a furry, they have my fursona up on a wall somewhere, and they know I've been exploring this scene too. These people I care for are a part of my life (online/offline, either way) and can accept or learn to accept the impact of what I tell them, or they can not... that's a decision they make on their own.

In my line of work, I get a lot of people who call me a liar just because they don't like the truth of what they're hearing. Mind you, I'm not passing judgement on their ability to consciously or subconsciously accept it - they just don't like it, so they lash out. It doesn't bother me... I just say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and keep on going. No huhu, they can hold whatever opinions they want.

As for online? I just remember that in the end, this contact is Arial (or Times New Roman, Courier New, etc.) in pleasant formations and nothing more. I don't look for pictures, 'cos how much effort does it take to upload someone else's mugshot? Nil. All men are women, all women are boys, all boys are FBI agents so far as I'm concerned but if they're amusing to talk to and not-boring, I'll enjoy their company. *grimaces* I have my own horror stories of trusting too much... but never mind that.

We can't regulate the honesty of others. All we can do is maintain our own, to the extent that our conscience and our situations allow, and decide how our principles will guide us when we inevitably encounter those less scrupulous than ourselves - or those who misjudge our own values. If these people are salvageable, set 'em straight. If they aren't, set 'em free.

_____________________________

Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to zaynab)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 11:18:19 AM   
thelight


Posts: 82
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		Lying is a learned behavior. People lie because their lies are often rewarded, while there honesty goes unrewarded.

Joe and Jack both want to skip work and go the the beach.

Joe calls his boss and says "I'm not comming in today because I'm going to the beach." Does his boss say "Thanks for being honest Joe. Enjoy your day at the beach."? Hell no. He says "Get your ass in here today or don't come back."

Jack calls his boss and says he can't come in because he's sick. His boss tells jack he hopes that he feels better. Jack enjoys a leisurely day at the beach, while Joe goes to work.


Or, Joe and Jack both have women they want to sleep with.

Joe says, "I'd like to sleep with you." She tells him to piss off.

Jack says, "I'd like to take you out for dinner." She accepts, they go out for dinner, during which Jack tells her more lies, and then they sleep together.

Or, Joe and Jack are both head over heels over a woman. They sent her an email, and check their in -boxes every 10 minutes to see if she wrote back. After a few days, she finally does.

Joe replies immediately. He says, "I'm so glad you finally wrote me back. I wanted to hear from you so badly, I checked my in-box every 10 minutes for your reply." She thinks "pathetic loser," and doesn't write him ever again.

Jack waits a day, then writes, "Good to hear from you. I've been really busy lately..." She writes back, thinking Jack seems to have it together.


And many people who reward dishonest behavior are the same ones who complain about dishonesty. In fact, I am convinced that most people don't really want honesty. They say they do, but they really prefer to be told what they want to hear. If we rewarded honesty more, people would be more honest.

< Message edited by thelight -- 8/8/2005 10:12:39 PM >

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 12:23:19 PM   
tara


Posts: 17
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I often wonder what happened to old time values. Mostly, honesty! What happened to the saying "A mans word is as good as gold." What happened to people really being proud in themselves that honesty was important to them and that they practiced it. Sometimes i feel i was born in the wrong era.

_____________________________

tara

"A strong man needs a woman at His feet, who is truly His. Anything else is less than His fullfillment"

"Only where there are true men can there be true women."

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 1:26:02 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Do you seriously believe that people lied less in the past than they do now?

(in reply to tara)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 3:23:03 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		They probably dont but the sence of Honour is no longer there. I can remember when a Man's word was his bond and many deals were done with the shake of a hand. These dfays I fine that people accept lies more readily and they expect others to lie to them. That's where the world has changed. Still there is hole, there are a few of us about who still hold to the old standards. Without Honour man is less than the animals. Honour is the only thing worth fighting and laying down your life for.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Why Can't People Be Honest? - 8/8/2005 8:07:38 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Without Honour man is less than the animals. Honour is the only thing worth fighting and laying down your life for.

That and to protect the family....which often is the same thing. My Honour...My Word...My Bond are all I have...without those I am nothing....with those I can achieve any goal.

Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 80
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