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RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 6:11:21 AM   
masterElDiablo


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline 		ok im putting on the fire proof suit.
the second edition of the Oxford English Dictionary gives: "One who is the property of, and entirely subject to another person, whether by capture, purchase or birth; a servant completely divested of freedom and personal rights."

ok i know were talking consensual slavery here and I do own a 24/7 slave. our one agreement is that if she wants to leave she can, and I will do my best to facilitate that if she should request it.
Other than that I believe its my choice if she stays home and cooks cleans and performs what ever perversions I desire or If the need arises to go out and bring home an income.
Now c has a desire to do spanking modeling and other photographic/video work, I allow her this as it makes her happy, the money from this then goes to household expenses and a portion of it goes into her bank account? why do I let her have money if shes a salve? simply I dont want to be bothered with having to give her money for tampax, lipstic and all the other things a girl needs and also as a responcible master to help provide for her future.
Now my slave has been with me 2 years and in that time she has been happy, sad well and ill and I take it as my responcibility to look after my property if she is ill, i do what it takes to ensure she gets better, if she is unhappy then I will do something to cheer her up, after all an unhappy slave is less productive, but its always my choice. I get to choose what she eats drinks and even where she sleeps, if i wanted to take it further I could, why? because she consented to being a SLAVE not a girlfriend or partner but a slave
So to answer the question by asking another question does the SLAVE have the right to demand anything other than slavery?






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 6:12:54 AM   
worshipmoons


Posts: 39
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Asmodeus

What happens to an owned slave when their Owner dies? Do you expect them to become part of the property of the estate?


Like the family who may inherrit the golden cage with the loud parrot!

LOL

Pamela

_____________________________

Live is too short to be unhappy, so when the moon is full you'll find me riding my broom through the air, landing here or there, taking in the beauty everywhere....

(in reply to Asmodeus)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 7:08:23 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterElDiablo
So to answer the question by asking another question does the SLAVE have the right to demand anything other than slavery?



Given the reality of the situation, I'd say that the "slave" has the right to determine the parameters of his or her "slavery" both prior to and during the period of enslavement.

I don't think anyone would seriously question the first. I haven't met a potential consensual slave who wasn't fairly fussy in chosing a master.

There may be some debate about the "during" part from the TPE folks, but in reality, the slave does have the right to "vote with his/her feet" and to expect the awesome force of the State to support that decision. There may be some internal resistence to chosing that route and even some pressures from the couple's community, but those are usually factors in the initial choice.

Given all this, the master also has a powerful option. Should the slave demand anything, he or she can elect to terminate the agreement or make modifications that will make the relationship less rewarding to the slave.

It's a delicate dance with the options of both partners dictating the outcome.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to masterElDiablo)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 7:55:12 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I have no problem with being financially responsible for a slave of mine, however the flip side of that is that I expect the slave to work towards my benifit, which means the compensation for their labor is mine. And unless I feel they are at the minimum a revenue neutral property then why would I own them.

Wouldn't invest in a property of real estate with it being a negative cash flow property why would I change that basic rule for a human property?


In Leather

Archer

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 8:31:35 AM   
worshipmoons


Posts: 39
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline 		I was wondering what the difference is if a slave is an at home parent compaired to the slave that stay home to clean, cook, yard work, etc...
If he/she is not working but is still contributing the house what difference does it really make? I mean isnt this the same old arguement that the working mother vs the non working mother. After all taking care of one's Master is can be just as difficult.

My 2 cents
Pamela

_____________________________

Live is too short to be unhappy, so when the moon is full you'll find me riding my broom through the air, landing here or there, taking in the beauty everywhere....

(in reply to masterElDiablo)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 8:55:46 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		A number of thoughts:

I've always had concerns about submissives/slaves that give up everything for their Dominant/Master with no exit plan. I've always wondered why the submissive/slave does not understand that having a way out is something that need to do for themselves.

I feel that if a Dominant/Master is going to demand that a submissive/slave is not going to be employed, then yes they need to be responsible for their submissive/slave's food, clothing, medical and maintenance.

As for the "what happens if the Dominant dies", we've seen what it can do first hand. It is precisely for these reasons that Master decided to marry me. Our "hardcore" friends insisted that marriage gave me rights to which I wasn't entitled to. But, Master wanted to make sure that if something happened to him that I'd have access to him in the hospital, control over his medical care and that I'd be taken care of without any interference by his family.

I do have to say that we've been approached by a number of submissives/slaves that expect to be "stay at homes". I'm opposed to this idea. The flip side of this was talking to submissive that worked outside the home. She asked Master what form her service would be. He answered, "It would be sexual, general service, and some domestic service."

"You mean 'Domestic service' as in cleaning windows and things? I don't do that."

I found it amazing that this woman wanted to move into our house and not do her share of the housework.


Last thought. For the umpteenth time. For those that think that a slaves only entitlement is to serve. WRONG. We are all in this lifestyle because it makes us happy. Everyone is entitled to that happiness, not just the Dominant/Master. If, as a Dominant, you have no care for the mental state of your submissive/slave, then you'll be going through a lot of submissives/slaves.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to worshipmoons)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 2:04:00 PM   
RainGod


Posts: 230
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Hendersonville, NC
Status: offline 		I don't see any problem in providing a slave with all she needs to live.... food, shelter, clothing, medical care, toiletries and such... in exchange for her services at home. I would love that. I tend to love being a Provider/Protector.

But I have some reservations with those who email a shopping list of things they "require to live" and it includes a new Cobra Mustang and a in ground swimming pool. Sometimes, some people can confuse what is needed with what is wanted. If a girl is careful to reserve her needs to what is actually necessary, I do tend to spoil her because I want to. she has been thankful for what she has recieved, so she will recieve more than that which she asked.

I wouldn't have her seek outside employment unless she came to Me with more personal debt than the household budget could handle.... i.e. $25,000 in credit card debt, a new SUV payment, and such. That might be a different story, but her basic needs are My responsibility.

edited to add:

quote:

I was wondering what the difference is if a slave is an at home parent compaired to the slave that stay home to clean, cook, yard work, etc...


yard work??? uh uh!! you keep tiny slave butt far away from My mower! lol the yard work is Mine. I need it.

This is a good thread. How do you define "living expenses"?

< Message edited by RainGod -- 9/27/2005 2:06:42 PM >

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 3:26:01 PM   
sweetpettjenny


Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		Damn im out!!! i have the new SUV payment lol
quote:

ORIGINAL: RainGod

I don't see any problem in providing a slave with all she needs to live.... food, shelter, clothing, medical care, toiletries and such... in exchange for her services at home. I would love that. I tend to love being a Provider/Protector.

But I have some reservations with those who email a shopping list of things they "require to live" and it includes a new Cobra Mustang and a in ground swimming pool. Sometimes, some people can confuse what is needed with what is wanted. If a girl is careful to reserve her needs to what is actually necessary, I do tend to spoil her because I want to. she has been thankful for what she has recieved, so she will recieve more than that which she asked.

I wouldn't have her seek outside employment unless she came to Me with more personal debt than the household budget could handle.... i.e. $25,000 in credit card debt, a new SUV payment, and such. That might be a different story, but her basic needs are My responsibility.

edited to add:

quote:

I was wondering what the difference is if a slave is an at home parent compaired to the slave that stay home to clean, cook, yard work, etc...


yard work??? uh uh!! you keep tiny slave butt far away from My mower! lol the yard work is Mine. I need it.

This is a good thread. How do you define "living expenses"?


(in reply to RainGod)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 3:31:54 PM   
WickedKev


Posts: 305
Joined: 11/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

I'll start by saying that I'm very much in the minority here on issues of slave ownership. In fact, I'm probably not representative of anyone here but me.

Yes, when a master takes ownership of a slave, the care, feeding, and socialization of that slave become his responsibility. Slaves are property, and a decent man takes care of the valuable property that he owns, whether that is a car, a home, or a human being. That said, some men do send their slaves to work outside the home. There is nothing wrong with that, as far as I'm concerned. A slave is his or her master's property, to do with as they see fit. I personally have owned slaves that I kept home, doing the work of the house, and I have owned slaves that had professions outside the house. It is incumbant on a good master to manage his slave in such a way that they are of the greatest value. For some slaves, that means having a career. For others it might not.

These kinds of issues are relatively simple to sort out if a slave is thought of, in the classical sense, as valuable human property. I think of them that way, and so for me issues like this are fairly cut and dried. I think that you'll find that, as with many terms here, "slave" can mean just about anything depending on who you ask.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas



Interesting concept but then with your thinking, if a slave is property on par with a car or a house, and I choose to make money out of those, renting out the house, or leasing out the car, then that is in my right, as the owner. Therefore if i send my slave out to work to cover the cost of her expensives then that is also within my rights.

My slave and myself both go out to work, we have two kids to support plus we hope to buy a house next year. That is a vanilla side of our relationship and no matter how much we would like, vanilla or real life does step in, demading money for bills groceries all sorts of things. That does not make her any less of a slave or me any less her Master.

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 4:10:43 PM   
RainGod


Posts: 230
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Hendersonville, NC
Status: offline 		sweetpetjenny writes:

quote:

Damn im out!!! i have the new SUV payment lol


no, that's not what I said. I don't mind you not working outside the home unless you have all those other expenses. If you didnt have the SUV payment and wanted to be a stay home slave/mommy to the kids, I would be alll for it.

(in reply to sweetpettjenny)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 5:05:14 PM   
sultryvoice


Posts: 368
Joined: 3/31/2004
Status: offline 		All that can be said here is be prepared for every possibility. Get out of the fantasy world and look around. The real world doesn't work like your fantasy. Be realistic first, make sure everything is in order and everyone's skills are up-to-date. You never know when the bomb will hit.

Respectfully,
sultry

_____________________________

Blessed are the cracked,
For it is they who let in the light.


www.themarkbycpi.com

(in reply to masterElDiablo)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: living expenses - 9/27/2005 8:21:24 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: denimknight

Ok, let’s be realistic here. If you are a Master and expect for ye random cute/handsome slave to pull up roots and come to you, eliminating the job they have already been trained at, spent time to establish contacts in, and may well be in line for a promotion with, yes you should pay them. I would say at least 9 months worth of their salary at the job they were forced to leave to come to you.


Excuse me? Forced??? I have yet to meet the respectable dominant who would "force" someone to give up a lucrative career to be a stay-at-home house slave. Everyone has a choice. If the job's too good, don't give it up and find a dominant who better fits your goals and aspirations.

quote:

People have kids to attend to (child support ect) they have hopes and dreams that they are saving away for, they have futures they are trying to build. To dismiss these things is not only unethical on the part of a Master, it is also irresponsible, mean spirited, and worst of all reckless with someone else’s life.


Of course, NONE of this could possibly rest on the shoulders of the submissive who fails to consider the impact of THEIR decision to leave their job to live as a slave and simply leaps into it without having all their bases covered. Why is fault always laid at the feet of the dominant? Submissives and slaves have brains. We expect them to be capable of using them.

quote:

Now many of you may see these requirements as being too much for anyone to deal with.


I'm wondering how anyone could have the nerve to demand payment to do something they obviously want to do. Pay me and I'll come, but if you don't pay me, I won't? Don't do me any favors!

quote:

I can understand this, it’s hardly chump change. However, I think you must consider what you are getting in return. I’ll use myself for an example to illustrate my point. I plan on finishing grad school and heading into a job that pays upwards of 70K a year right out of the box. Now never mind that I’m hoping to do the kind of work where it’s the good being accomplished that matters, not the money, but in order for One to have me even consider dropping my existence to come and place myself in your hands You need to be able to put up approximately $52,500.


Good luck with that. Very few dominants are willing to "buy" a slave. They don't have to.

quote:

Honestly, this is a small price to pay to have someone with obviously marketable skills (to say nothing of the drive and focus needed to acquire graduate education, the same could be said of military training) drop their entire life and start a whole new life in a whole new place, a life centered around serving your wants and needs.


Yeah, but can you clean a toilet? All those alleged "marketable skills" are worthless in a domestic service-type slavery. In fact, you could be in desperate need of training in that area, in which case it would be you who should be paying the dominant to train you in those skills. In the end, we all live with the choices we make. I would never have DREAMED of asking Master to "pay" me to resign my position and move to His home. I could just as easily have stayed where I was and continued my search for someone more local to me.

quote:

In the end perhaps this matter is summed up by something a wonderful Dominatrix friend of mine once said to Her boy in the days leading up to their wedding: “Baby I love you more than I can hope to express in words, but if you ever fuck with my money, they’ll have to dredge the river for months before they find your bloated corpse.”


Well, at least we know where your, and her, priorities lie. It's all about the Benjamins.

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to denimknight)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: living expenses - 9/28/2005 6:49:15 PM   
SirMike2elusive


Posts: 2
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hi A/all

First post sorry so here goes!

I am a full time mum and will be a 24/7 to my Master as of next week. The way we see it for ourselves is that I am at home anyway for now (was my choice to take 12 months off to bring up my bubs) I also think because we are on the same wave its not an issue. I don't expect him to work for me and am happy to get a job. I am not stupid, I have certificates behind me in different areas of work and plan to go back to it part time next year. Reason being part time is because I can not look after my bubs needs and then my Masters on top of this as well as working a full week (damn I would be needing him to look after my damn needs by friday LOL)
I also have no problem being at home to tend to everything though as I am not lazy...far from it and if anyone thinks i sit on my arse all day painting my nails is a right idiot. From the moment i get up i am looking after things around here from breakfast, cleaning, washing, lunch, dinners, going up town to do things, ie paying bills, shopping for home ect.
And I also LOVE being domestic! I love looking after things here and the people under this roof, I love being a homemaker! I am also looking at work I can do from home that enables me to keep things together here and still do what I love, Master is happy with this idea. But I believe no matter what the sitch is its better for the slave to do something in the workforce at some stage because the longer you are out of the workforce the harder it is to find something and keep your skills up. Everything moves fast in the world these days so you need to stay on top of it. A person owes it to themselves to keep up with it so they dont get up sh..creek with out a paddle.

regards, elusive

(oops pay no heed to the in reply too, it was a general comment to this thread)

< Message edited by SirMike2elusive -- 9/28/2005 6:54:01 PM >

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: living expenses - 9/29/2005 7:41:25 AM   
Aussiedogg


Posts: 5
Joined: 8/14/2004
Status: offline 		In reality....a submissive,slave,24/7 is "sexual" servitude and nothing more. No matter who you pair up with..it's meant to be a "partnership". No couple use sexual titles in All circumstances..you dont introduce your partner say to the neighbor, co-workers, etc as your sub or slave. Being a slave or a 24/7 some express it as though it is a all encompassing lifestyle where the roles never end even in public,social gatherings etc.

Some wives choose to work and others choose to remain home. In both cases they are having a sexual relationship. This being owned and controlled is a head game and is sublime. From my perspective..I dont want or need a Submissive or Slave to serve me unless they WILLINGLY do so. It doesnt takes acts of violence or force to handle one. A sub or slave may feel "sexually" co-dependent....without force they have free will and always recieve by consent.

Yet...some view 24/7 as a means of not having to work in exchange for room and board...exchange sexual favours. Why Pimps/Players pretend to be Dom's/Masters...they simply want to whore you out....and thats how you are being kept. Or on another level, you get calls for Houseboys, Maids,Nannies and Personal Assistance...skilled professional subs who want a life outside the home..but co-dependent on how you have sex...which bring you back to being Partners.....and only each couple knows what is right for them and how THEY define and use those terms

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: living expenses - 9/29/2005 1:16:26 PM   
LADYBOA


Posts: 54
Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetieboop

I don't understand why Masters don't feel that "all living expenses provided" is a necessity when trying to aquire a slave. If you want to own someone, then you need to be responsible for them, IMHO. Living expenses doesn't mean anything the slave WANTS you to buy her, it means anything she NEEDS. If you want someone to come live in your house, take care of your wants and needs, and do as you say, then don't you have the responsibility to take care of them and provide for them?


I think that this is something that needs some serious conversations about before getting into it with both feet... Talk Talk talk

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: living expenses - 9/30/2005 6:50:12 AM   
RaeRae39


Posts: 35
Joined: 10/26/2004
Status: offline 		Sweetieboop does make a good point, and I can see this thread really hits a lot of Dom and subs nerves. Money is a concern in ALL relationships, period.
But, I personally feel everything should be discussed up front from the get go, the bottom line again is communication.
I like to work part time only, and fortunately for me, I make good money doing so. I am a single mother at this time,...but if I where to live with my Dom/Master, I want to be able to tend to his needs. I do like to cook a good, healthy dinner for my Dom, keep him healthy~! I do like to sit down at the dinner table and talk or just be with one another, too many now adays just zone out in front of a tv not even connecting. I want to be able to keep up the household as well, and at night, well, hmmmmm, I want to have the energy to have some "playtime" as my Dom wishes:) I also like working toward a mutual goal,....say we both want to go on a great vacation. or we want to save for something special, .....when I am with someone, it is not my money, it is ours, I share all that I have. It is the trust thing, and I choose to trust my Dom with all of it.
Now on as additional comment here, with my ex, in my marriage, I was the one that came to the relationship with the money. "In Love" I was. I bought him clothes, got him the car he wanted,....and even offered to put the money on the down payment of a home for us, ..all with asking one thing,.....please stay employed~! And you know what? He couldn't do it, he was perpetually unemployed. So, it's not just you guys that have been burned,.....those of us with big hearts seem to learn the hard way.
Rae

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: living expenses - 9/30/2005 6:56:00 AM   
vixxy


Posts: 32
Status: offline 		Warm greetings :)

I wouldn't be with someone unless they were 'capable' of providing my living expenses. I come from a traditional upbringing and have also lived in most extents the same way. My sole purpose in life is to leech off someone :)

I have 3 sons, two in college. Luckily I haven't had any problems with them, no smoking, no drugs and they are pretty well mannered and polite. I honestly don't have one complaint about them.

But, I have to be thankful to my cleaning lady. She cleans the house 3 hours a day! She is a little bit anal with cleanliness, but its nice having a home well organized.

I also have to thank the cook, she cooks 3 meals a day from scratch. She tries to be careful in making healthy food that is also delicious.

There is also the gardener. Not only does she cut the lawn, and weed gardens, she also grows flowers so she can put arrangements around the house. In the winter, someone is hired for snow removal..the driveway must be done right away!

Periodically a tutor is hired, a nursemaid, and a chauffeur. Over the years I have hired a woman attend endless sports events and recitals; she learned how to clap and cheer accordingly. Oh, and of course the handyman! Wish I could find someone to exercise and go to the gym for me, but I have had to settle with seeing a personal trainer.

Have to dash, need to have my manicure, pedicure and hair done. Then its to the couch where I can watch soap operas, read the National Enquirer and each bon-bons. Where is my masseuse today?


vixxy

p.s-its tongue in cheek :) I don't have a masseuse.

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: living expenses - 9/30/2005 7:02:49 AM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		You read the National Enquirer? That's just wrong.

XI

_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to vixxy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: living expenses - 9/30/2005 8:26:26 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Our "hardcore" friends insisted that marriage gave me rights to which I wasn't entitled to.

I really get a big kick out of how semantics can frame issues or distort them. For example, your friends may consider themselves hardcore; I'd use the word delusional because they are apparently so caught up in their idealized definitions that they completely ignore real world concepts like "palimony" and "common law marriage" that would define the rights in a relationship like yours after a period of time.

Similarly, as has been discussed around here numerous times, it is an oxymoron to describe a consensual relationship as "slavery". Sure, it is a commonly accepted term within in this subculture, but it is nothing more than role playing compared to slavery still exists as illustrated in this article. So if someone wants to consider himself a hardcore slave owner, he ought to go to Africa because all this talk of property and the most finely crafted slave contract would just get laughed out of court elsewhere.

Anyway OsideGirl, everything you said makes perfect sense to me, but I'm mentioning that stuff for those hardcore folks out there whose fantasies have diminished their grips on reality.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 9/30/2005 8:30:35 AM >

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: living expenses - 9/30/2005 9:37:53 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

Our "hardcore" friends insisted that marriage gave me rights to which I wasn't entitled to.

I really get a big kick out of how semantics can frame issues or distort them. For example, your friends may consider themselves hardcore; I'd use the word delusional because they are apparently so caught up in their idealized definitions that they completely ignore real world concepts like "palimony" and "common law marriage" that would define the rights in a relationship like yours after a period of time.


Yeah, I love this particular couple dearly, but their D/s is not for me. I've frequently thought that maybe his views were because of his fear of marriage. She had a scientific career finding oil for oil companies which she gave up to become a massage therapist because he thought it deepen her submission to be in a personal service industry. But, hey, if they're happy, more power to them.


California does not recognize common law marriage, the only thing that comes close is if we filed for "Domestic Partners", which Master did not want to do.



_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 60
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