RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males?

RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (Full Version)

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darchChylde -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 12:16:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Coupleofwhats I don't get the whole Alpha and Beta thing: by my understanding, Alphas are assholes and Betas are wusses. Neither sounds like my type. I like a man who is successful and ambitious, but not a workaholic. I like a man who likes women. I like a man that I don't have to baby. I like a man who speaks up for himself when the need arises. I like a submissive who understands the difference between groveling and service. I like a submissive who is also a hardcore masochist. Whatever you call guys that are all that, that's what I like. (Mostly I call him "my boyfriend.") Well, no one is 100 percent Alpha or Beta; these labels merely represent the dominant aspect of a personality. What you say about assholes and wusses are broad stereotypes based on the extremes of both groups. It's really the same as saying that all dominants are assholes and all submissives are wimps. Or, on the other hand; imagine how it would feel to be judged solely by the most extreme of your race, religion, age group, gender or sexual orientation... it doesn't exactly give you the warm fuzzies, does it?

Coupleofwhats -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 12:39:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darchChylde Well, no one is 100 percent Alpha or Beta; these labels merely represent the dominant aspect of a personality. What you say about assholes and wusses are broad stereotypes based on the extremes of both groups. It's really the same as saying that all dominants are assholes and all submissives are wimps. Or, on the other hand; imagine how it would feel to be judged solely by the most extreme of your race, religion, age group, gender or sexual orientation... it doesn't exactly give you the warm fuzzies, does it? My point was more that I don't buy into the binary classification system of Alphas and Betas: it sounds like something pop psychologists and "pickup artists" made up.

darchChylde -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 12:46:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Coupleofwhats quote: ORIGINAL: darchChylde Well, no one is 100 percent Alpha or Beta; these labels merely represent the dominant aspect of a personality. What you say about assholes and wusses are broad stereotypes based on the extremes of both groups. It's really the same as saying that all dominants are assholes and all submissives are wimps. Or, on the other hand; imagine how it would feel to be judged solely by the most extreme of your race, religion, age group, gender or sexual orientation... it doesn't exactly give you the warm fuzzies, does it? My point was more that I don't buy into the binary classification system of Alphas and Betas: it sounds like something pop psychologists and "pickup artists" made up. Well, no matter what the fundamental basis; it's true in the fact that most everybody fits into one or the other personality types... the same as dominant or submissive, type A or type B

Coupleofwhats -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 1:10:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darchChylde Well, no matter what the fundamental basis; it's true in the fact that most everybody fits into one or the other personality types... the same as dominant or submissive, type A or type B Like I said already: I disagree. I would hope most people are a bit more complex.

TwoNYCDommes -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 1:20:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Coupleofwhats quote: ORIGINAL: darchChylde Well, no matter what the fundamental basis; it's true in the fact that most everybody fits into one or the other personality types... the same as dominant or submissive, type A or type B Like I said already: I disagree. I would hope most people are a bit more complex. I agree with Coupleofwhats. People are complex, and while many may clearly tend toward A or B, or dom or sub, or straight or gay, or whatever, there are many more who fall closer to the middle of the spectrum than to either end (and possibly some who manage to create their own spectrums entirely).

ElanSubdued -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 1:32:58 PM)
pinnipedster, Perhaps my thoughts won't add much to the discussion, but I hope they do. As a submissive myself, I don't identify as an alpha or a beta. As cliche as this sounds, I am me. At times I lead and at others I prefer not to. In my romantic, BDSM relationships, I prefer not to lead. This doesn't mean that I don't initiate and it also doesn't mean that I'm not proactive. When it comes to my relationships, I'm more focused on helping create an environment that we both enjoy as opposed to issues of alpha versus beta. One thing I'm not is a pushover. Ah, but with the right person, I'm easily asked or "convinced". Take this as you will. :-) Elan.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 1:33:24 PM)
Human beings are dynamic, not static. Just as many on this site did not "discover" their BDSM or D/s interests until their thirties or forties, there are men who don't discover/realize/admit they are gay until they achieve middle age and a few kids from their hetero marriage -- and gay women who discover their heterosexuality six months after graduating from college. People experiment, test, and choose to emphasize or de-emphasize different aspects of themselves at different points in their life. To get a sense of someone's identity, what they call themselves only provides one clue, and what they are doing right now this minute only provides another clue. The real issue is: what behaviors and interests are they choosing to pursue more, and which are falling away? That's how you can see who the person will become.

ElanSubdued -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 1:43:03 PM)
Coupleofwhats, quote: Coupleofwhats to darchChylde: My point was more that I don't buy into the binary classification system of Alphas and Betas: it sounds like something pop psychologists and "pickup artists" made up. (snip to next post) Like I said already: I disagree. I would hope most people are a bit more complex. In parts of the animal kingdom, there is scientific basis for alpha and beta classifications. However, when it comes to homo sapiens, I'm not so sure that such a system is broadly applicable. And me? I consider myself considerably more complex than a binary classification system is capable of adequately describing. Thanks for your posts, Elan.

YOURsubcuck -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 1:55:28 PM)
As a cuckold-hubby-wannabe, my romantic experiences have ALL REPEATEDLY taught me that what Marilyn Monroe said, was absolutely correct: "Beauty is to men as money is to women." So, the FemDom alpha/beta male distinctions between sexually aggressive versus sexually submissive males is ultimately rendered secondary to the CASH SITUATION. The BOTTOM LINE is: "Show me the money", just like the movie line. Cash is the "Point Of Entrance", or "Price of Admission" to romance with a female. "Dating" involves repeatedly spending cash, over time, to gain "credibility" as being a "serious" romantic candidate. The alpha/beta male are sexual demanor distictions used by fenmales AFTER the CASH SITUATION has been resolved. Prostitution is legal, and is most commonly refrred to as "marriage". Sexual gratification is occasionally exchanged, DEPENDING UPON THE FEMALE MOOD, given that her financial desires are FIRST met. So, the alpha/beta male thing is ultimately decided AFTER the CASH THING has been resolved!

ElanSubdued -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 2:06:47 PM)
quote: YOURsubcuck: Cash is the "Point Of Entrance", or "Price of Admission" to romance with a female. "Dating" involves repeatedly spending cash, over time, to gain "credibility" as being a "serious" romantic candidate. (snip) Prostitution is legal, and is most commonly refrred to as "marriage". Sexual gratification is occasionally exchanged, DEPENDING UPON THE FEMALE MOOD, given that her financial desires are FIRST met. So, the alpha/beta male thing is ultimately decided AFTER the CASH THING has been resolved! I'm losing my ability to communicate with grace so I should probably log off soon. This point of view is so fucked up I don't even know where to start. I'll admit that I've met women for whom a partner's money is the primary relationship motivator. The inverse is also true in that there are people who try to and do buy their partners with money. Thankfully, many people I meet are not this way. Elan.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 2:28:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YOURsubcuck So, the alpha/beta male thing is ultimately decided AFTER the CASH THING has been resolved! I have no doubt you are telling the truth about your world and your experiences. Not everyone has the same experiences -- because not everyone lives in your world.

Coupleofwhats -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 2:29:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued In parts of the animal kingdom, there is scientific basis for alpha and beta classifications. However, when it comes to homo sapiens, I'm not so sure that such a system is broadly applicable. And me? I consider myself considerably more complex than a binary classification system is capable of adequately describing. Thanks for your posts, Elan. No prob. It's a tough job being perpetually contrary, but someone's gotta do it. [:D]

LadyJeelys -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 2:41:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster So many profiles of dominant women specify that they're looking for an alpha male type. Someone who is confident, aggressive, ambitious, goal-oriented, succesful, all that kind of thing in their day-to-day life, but willing to submit to her at night. Hmmmm. Ok, I'm just going to honest. It seems to me this is more about finding a reason for not having luck in the meeting up arena. I don't mean that as an attack. It just seems like an excuse, "Most dommes are after some abusive jerk therefore they don't consider a nice guy like me". Being goal ambitious, goal-oriented and successful is not the same as being aggressive. A man being strong isn't the same as being aggressive. quote: Well, that's not me, you see. :) I've never been particularly confident, I am completely not aggressive, I tend to be somewhat indecisive, have trouble setting goals...I definitely do have ambitions, but I'm not entirely sure what they are. :) More of a follower. My favorite sort of position is one where I am listened to and respected, but where the ultimate authority and responsibility like elsewhere. See, for me, that would be a problem. I personally believe that submission has to come from a place of strength---and choice. See, if I ever thought that secondary was not with me by choice, was not so totally capable of accepting authority....which is ultimately linked to accountability.....then I'm not sure we'd work. See, its the choice that is so sexy. Just any Domme wouldn't do--and most definitely just any sub wouldn't do for me. He is fully capable of making decisions and setting goals; he yields from that place of ability to me. Also, as much as secondary is my pet, our relationship is a "we" kind of relationship. I don't always have the ultimate responsibility-there have been many times when we share responsibility even with he context of our of Lady/pet relationship. quote: I don't mean I'm a doormat. I have opinions, and I'm willing to state them. I can be assertive when it's required. I speak up when I think something isn't right, or can be done in a better way. I don't respond well to threats of attempts at coercion. But I'm also not a take-charge guy who wants to run things. I've always though I'd make a good vice-president. :) Which gets back to my original point. What you're saying about yourself is pretty much true of most men who are submissive. Most submissive men are great guys, smart, intelligent, capable and strong. Thing is, being sub isn't a cut in line free card for relationships. It may not be that Dommes are looking for some aggressive jerk alpha male, therefore you haven't found someone yet. More likely its that finding someone who works with you is tough, and can take a while. quote: So, are there any dominant ladies who prefer, or at least accept, that kind of personality in a male sub? Just curious if the only way I'm ever going to find someone who likes me as I am is to be completely different.... Now see, this to me is just, well manipulative. We're supposed to be all reassuring, right? We're supposed to say, "oh, you're great as you are." Well, yeah, but the thing is, unless you believe that, it won't help for others to say it. Anyway, that's what I think.....good thing I never claimed to by nice. Guess I'll go kick my puppy now....

Madame4a -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 2:45:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Coupleofwhats quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued In parts of the animal kingdom, there is scientific basis for alpha and beta classifications. However, when it comes to homo sapiens, I'm not so sure that such a system is broadly applicable. And me? I consider myself considerably more complex than a binary classification system is capable of adequately describing. Thanks for your posts, Elan. No prob. It's a tough job being perpetually contrary, but someone's gotta do it. [:D] I think I like you.

Reigna -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 2:55:31 PM)
Christopher Moore's novel, A Dirty Job, is a funny and engaging story about a self-identified beta male who does quite nicely for himself, thank you. Alpha anythings are rare, by definition. Beta males can serve just fine. Frankly, how many femdoms are alpha females? Oh, sure, you are, and I am. But as to the rest? Not so much.

LadyLou -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 4:05:56 PM)
The ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ labels are somewhat redundant terms when it comes to describing the complex nature of human psyche and human interaction imo. I find them to be silly labels that are far to limiting to accurately fit someone, and it comes with too much connotation, that is always inaccurate. It also doesn’t fit well with someone like myself, who doesn’t identify as either, and laughs at the whole absurd concept of ’alpha’ and ’beta’ humans. I like to think I transcend those labels lmao! [;)] If I can be so bold as to read into your post a little, and make a few assumptions; what your describing sounds more to do with being passive, than being a ‘beta‘ male. Confidence, or lack there of, does not make someone ’alpha’ or ’beta’. Just as someone who is, “ aggressive ambitious, goal-oriented, successful” can be both ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ qualities (as well as sub and dom/me qualities). I am guessing, but I think what most women mean when they put that they seek ‘alpha male’ in there profile, is the stereotype of masculinity, and quite possibly looking for their male counterpart. I would suggest not putting a label on yourself, and seek someone who appreciates your strengths. And, what you perceive as a weakness, i.e “having trouble setting goals”, would quite possibly be considered desirable in someone who has a natural inclination to micro-manage, or who has an a natural inclination to nurture. Good luck to you. [:)]

subexploring -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 4:37:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued Coupleofwhats, quote: Coupleofwhats to darchChylde: My point was more that I don't buy into the binary classification system of Alphas and Betas: it sounds like something pop psychologists and "pickup artists" made up. (snip to next post) Like I said already: I disagree. I would hope most people are a bit more complex. In parts of the animal kingdom, there is scientific basis for alpha and beta classifications. However, when it comes to homo sapiens, I'm not so sure that such a system is broadly applicable. And me? I consider myself considerably more complex than a binary classification system is capable of adequately describing. Thanks for your posts, Elan. I think coupleofwhats is basically right that "alpha" and "beta" are just made up bits of pop psychology. Even in studying animals, "alpha" and "beta" are names for different social roles, not different types of animals. Even in the (much!) simpler society of primates, an animal can be alpha at one point in their life and beta at another. Let alone human society, where we can all be leaders in one domain and followers in another. I think "alpha" and "beta" mostly express American anxiety about being a "winner" or a "loser", which is an obsession in this society and often gets in the way of just relaxing and discovering your proper personal balance.

subexploring -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 4:40:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YOURsubcuck Cash is the "Point Of Entrance", or "Price of Admission" to romance with a female. "Dating" involves repeatedly spending cash, over time, to gain "credibility" as being a "serious" romantic candidate. Now that is nonsense. If this is your experience, then you're probably doing everything else wrong.

MySweetSubmssive -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 4:56:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subexploring I think "alpha" and "beta" mostly express American anxiety about being a "winner" or a "loser" ... Nicely stated. There is an important distinction between "power over" and "power within." I'm not particularly attracted to men who are of the former variety, but I am very attracted to men who are self-defined, self-posessed, strong of ethics, warm, present, reflective, probably introverted and who define success for themselves. To call those men "betas" is a gross mischaracterization and fails to see who they really are -- it's defining them within an alpha framework and is a silly trap. Mss

petdave -> RE: Do any ladies prefer beta males? (7/25/2008 5:09:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyLou It also doesn’t fit well with someone like myself, who doesn’t identify as either, and laughs at the whole absurd concept of ’alpha’ and ’beta’ humans. I like to think I transcend those labels lmao! [;)] Me too.... i think i'm somewhere in the omicron range. Labels are just a convenient shorthand... obviously if you have the time and inclination to provide greater detail they can be improved upon, but sooner or later people have to agree on some lingo, however imperfect, if they're gonna communimacate.

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