RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah!

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TheHeretic -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 9:36:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia President Bush will go down as being one of the worse President's in US history, why would I vote for someone remotely similar? I'm guessing you missed the moment when McCain compared Obama's unwillingness to change his mind about the surge, to Pres. Bush's unwillingness to see the need for a change in Iraq strategy either. Clinging to stubborn idealism, in the face of reality... I thought McC made that point very well.

NumberSix -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 9:37:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Our country is in the worse shape it has been in 75 years, shit is bad. Why the hell would I want to vote for someone that represents all the things that are going wrong with our country? Really MzMia? The worse shape in 75 years? We aren't in our finest hour, granted. But again, the worst in 75 years? We do not have riots in the streets like we did in the 60's. not many died We are not facing a nuclear war with a military superpower. The difference would be what? Number of nukes? North Korea or Iran do not possess the jenais se quois of the Soviet Union. We have a significantly lower crime rate than we did 15, 20, or even 30 years ago (check the FBI uniform crime reports if you don't believe me.) The FBI is not the goto guy for those sorts of statistics, drive by shootings is a word coined in the 90s-00s We aren't doing that bad. We aren't going into another Great Depression, I promise you. Your promises are empty. doesn't pay my mortgage, guy. As far as wars go, the one we are in is pretty mild to the others we fought. 54,000 somewhich is what died for americans in Viet Nam. What is your count? Brighten up a little. Cute little pickup, nothing but spongecake.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 9:41:14 PM)
quote: lol, whatever. Opinions are like asses, everyone has one. Things aren't bad at all, everything is fine. [8\|] I expected a bit more rationality from you. You made an emotionally charged claim that we are in the worst shape in 75 years. Of course it's a bogus claim, and you know it. We aren't facing breadlines, and we aren't heading for the Apocalypse.

SunnyTawse -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 9:44:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia Our country is in the worse shape it has been in 75 years, shit is bad. Why the hell would I want to vote for someone that represents all the things that are going wrong with our country? President Bush will go down as being one of the worse President's in US history, why would I vote for someone remotely similar? I have come to agree, MzMia. McCain isn't as bad as some Republicans, to quote a friend of mine. But Obama represents himself better, is better read and better informed, more thoughtful, more intelligent. He is interested in restoring our middle class, which over the last eight years has been pulled apart, leaving some few as millionaires and many more hanging on by their fingernails. He understands that unless most of us earn enough to provide a strong market here at home, our own industries and service sectors will falter. No Child Left Behind legislation has pulled apart our public education system as well. Obama understands the importance of education. He understand the importance of health care and its relationship to our economy and our future well-being. He understands our interdependance and how the good of the individual is inseparably tied to the good of the whole society in which we live. No president is ever ready to sit in the Oval Office, contrary to McCain's comment this evening. It is a huge job. Some our best presidents have been young and relatively inexperienced. In his run for the presidency, Obama has proven that he can put together a smooth, well-working team, and I'm impressed with his grasp of the potential of technology and I'm impressed with the advisors he's brought on board. He'll do the same thing in the White House when he assembles his Cabinet. I'm also impressed with how reasonable he is, admitting truth where he sees it and treating everyone with respect. We could use more of that in this country. In terms of defense, I'd vote for statesmanship over bullying any day. I respect McCain's service and I especially respect his stance on torture, but I agree a pilot probably doesn't know war the way a grunt does, so that part of his background really isn't much help. And here at home--well, I'm not a Democrat, but the Republicans have certainly had their chance to prove that supply-side economics works. Look what they have to show for it--the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And even more deregulation? Not if my vote counts this November. And I'm very disturbed by McCain's choice of running mate. He's 72 years old. About a third of all presidents have historically had to turn over their presidency to their vice presidents due to death, incapacity, or other reasons. I shudder to think of Sarah Palin as President of the United States of America. Sunny Tawse Sadien Domina Archon of Rings http://AthenorLodge.com

slaveboyforyou -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 9:51:58 PM)
quote: not many died Huh? quote: The difference would be what? Number of nukes? North Korea or Iran do not possess the jenais se quois of the Soviet Union. Well, they don't have the ability to completely wipe out all life on Earth, and they don't have the delivery capability to sent over a thousand nukes to North America. quote: The FBI is not the goto guy for those sorts of statistics, drive by shootings is a word coined in the 90s-00s Yes they are. All the crime statistics are compiled by the FBI. Of course you live in the mean streets of Minnesota, so I guess it's different in your 'hood. [:D] quote: Your promises are empty. doesn't pay my mortgage, guy. Yep you might as well start hopping the trains now. We will all be eating hobo stew real soon. [8\|] quote: 54,000 somewhich is what died for americans in Viet Nam. What is your count? The Vietnam War ended in 1973 or 1975 depending on what you consider the official end. Were you not aware of that? Maybe you weren't, because it was 58,000 + that died, not "54,000 somewhich." We aren't fighting in Vietnam anymore in case you missed the press conference.

gina0055 -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 9:55:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol See how diverse opinions can be? What you saw as smirking, I saw as smiling (sometimes, I think, of disbelief). On the other hand, I noticed McCain's sneering and restlessness. Body language says a lot, that is true. I agree... McCain kept fidgeting and doing that George W smirk thing. He didn't come off well at all. One of the talking heads observed that he appeared angry when Obama said he was wrong. I don't know about that but McCain looks and smells like the same old crap we've had for the past eight years.

NumberSix -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 10:09:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: not many died Huh? Yes, thank you for your insightful and politically astute comments. 54-58 grand, small city, how many died in Iraq? 54 was the number banded about in the 72-75 timeframe. I happened upon it, honestly. Vietnam is not being fought anymore. hmmmmmmmmmmm in what way? an unpopular war in which we die and the government of the country is not looking for our help? The fact that this is a conflict at the behest of a president and not a widely supported war like vietnam..........ummmmmmmmmm or I am 55 years old, you work at mcdonalds part time. If you are going to forward an opinion, you should be able to grasp the not so inconsequential rebuttals to your one liners. And have a rather full and rounded grasp of the issue. Thanks for playing. Ron

popeye1250 -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 10:32:24 PM)
I don't have a dog in this fight so I didn't watch it. I'll be voting for Charles Baldwin of the Constitution Party.

Marc2b -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 11:14:17 PM)
quote: Thanks for playing. Ron That sounds familar. Where have I heard that before? Whoa! I remember you! Where did ya go, when did you sneak back on and what happened to the traffic light, Ron? Or have I just been obtuse?

TheUtopian -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 11:19:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 I don't have a dog in this fight so I didn't watch it. I'll be voting for Charles Baldwin of the Constitution Party. Yup....not going to do the phony democrat/republican dance this year. Vlad Putin will be my '' write in '' selection. [;)] - R

TheUtopian -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/26/2008 11:30:31 PM)
quote: Bush's approval rating is about 10 these days, he will go down as one of the worse President's in history. Damn.....I'd say he stole the show from Hoover 2-3 years back....[:D] - R

cyberdude611 -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 5:08:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Yeah, I could see where John is gonna get a little hinky about the economy. And there is no question that an appeal to emotions is why the movie industry will never really fail. So, the anecdotes about some stupid shit that happened 35 years ago and how it built your character, like racing cockroaches across the cell, have great import. I don't see talking about your experience as an appeal to emotion. When you go to a job interview, you talk about your experience. Obama doesn't have any to talk about; McCain does. I don't see his experiences as "stupid shit" either. [>:] slaveboy? we all know McCain = Bush. Bush's approval rating is about 10 these days, he will go down as one of the worse President's in history. We should vote for 4 more years of the same shit? Bush's approval rating is 33%. It is the Democrat-lead Congress that is around 10%.

MissSCD -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 5:13:12 AM)
*That is a good thing. At least they finally took it away from Jimmy Carter. lol* *Regards, SCD* quote: ORIGINAL: TheUtopian quote: Bush's approval rating is about 10 these days, he will go down as one of the worse President's in history. Damn.....I'd say he stole the show from Hoover 2-3 years back....[:D] - R

cyberdude611 -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 5:15:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC We all saw what we expected to see; I doubt anyone's mind was changed by this...screw this snorefest- bring on the VP debate, THAT'S gonna be fuuuuuuuuuun! Yeah....Biden is sure to gaffe that thing to death. He cant get through one campaign stop lately without slipping up.

cyberdude611 -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 5:23:24 AM)
Obama held his own but McCain won this debate. Obama's foreign policy responses had a lot of rambling and filler. Especially on the surge issue where Obama still wont admit that it had any success when it clearly has. McCain had him beat on the Pakistan stuff. And Obama was spanked when it came to Russia. McCain went deep into the politics of the region naming specific leaders and their alliances. Obama's response was very surface level and typical response of someone that does not know all that much of what's going on over there.

lronitulstahp -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 5:34:26 AM)
quote: And Obama was spanked when it came to Russia. McCain went deep into the politics of the region naming specific leaders and their alliances Say it with me..... p-e-r-e-s-t-r-o-i-k-a g-l-a-s-n-o-s-t [;)]

cloudboy -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 5:52:50 AM)
Obama did not do as well as I had hoped. In terms of foreign policy and the IRAQ fallout, Obama failed to mention how this alienated us from our allies and how it further encouraged rouge states to nuclear up to counter our preemption policy. He also didn't properly address how the US cannot be fighting far-off foreign wars by itself without any help --- in countries where the local population wants our army to leave. He failed to talk about "the green zone" in IRAQ and how cloistered and unsafe Americans are outside of its walls. At what cost is the US going to engage in these ill fated military campaigns? Obama also could have pointed out that the IRAQ war an offensive war, not a defensive one. He could have clearly stated that he does not believe in offensive wars or democracy by gun point. He could also say that an election of him would send the world a message that Americans have renounced torture and Abu Gharib. He could have mentioned how Europe is excited about his candidacy and the world is ready for the US to return to normal, rational, cooperative leadership. McCain's glaring weakness in the debate were claims that he could cure the US's budget woes with futher tax cuts and curbs on earmark spending. Such a policy is nothing more than pipe-dream bullshit. The budget woes call for reduced defense spending, a reallocation of discretionary spending, and a sensible increase in taxes. Obama should have called McCain on what he meant by "winning" in IRAQ. How exactly are we "winning" there? What does the surge's "success" mean? When can our troops pull out? When will IRAQ be able to paddle its own canoe? Tactically, I think Obama could have scored some points by linking McCain to Dick Cheney -- in terms of being wrong headed. Obama should have pounded harder on McCain for claiming he's budget conscious and wants to save tax payers money --- when he signed us up for a $700B Dollar war without having any grasp of the end game. He should have reiterated the WMD fallacy, "we'll be greeted as liberators" fiction, and our troops will be home after about a year or two. FALSE, FALSE, and FALSE.

Aileen1968 -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 5:55:59 AM)
WTF was up with how Obama pronounced Pakistan. He sounded like Madonna after she turned British. [8\|] Edited to add...the actual words they said...blah blah blah. Same old garbage from both. Neither will change this country in a positive way. Neither has the balls to do or say what really needs to be done.

MzMia -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 6:02:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: lol, whatever. Opinions are like asses, everyone has one. Things aren't bad at all, everything is fine. [8\|] I expected a bit more rationality from you. You made an emotionally charged claim that we are in the worst shape in 75 years. Of course it's a bogus claim, and you know it. We aren't facing breadlines, and we aren't heading for the Apocalypse. slaveboy, I am not going to argue this point with you. I did not say we were heading for an Apocalypse, don't put words in my mouth. I will say it again, this country is in terrible shape and things are not getting better any time soon. We are heading for another DEPRESSION, and it will be different from the last DEPRESSION, because we are in the 21st century. If you don't see or realize all the situations that are in dire straits in the USA, then I can't help you. If you want to believe the USA is in great shape, feel free. Everyone just does not see it that way. To each their own, dude. Take care and peace out!

meatcleaver -> RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! (9/27/2008 6:04:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Obama held his own but McCain won this debate. Obama's foreign policy responses had a lot of rambling and filler. Especially on the surge issue where Obama still wont admit that it had any success when it clearly has. McCain had him beat on the Pakistan stuff. And Obama was spanked when it came to Russia. McCain went deep into the politics of the region naming specific leaders and their alliances. Obama's response was very surface level and typical response of someone that does not know all that much of what's going on over there. You saw a defferent debate to me, McCain was weak and shallow on foreign policy but what was disappointing was that Obama let McCain get away with being weak and shallow. McCain said talking to Iran would be naive and dangerous but never said why it would be, especially when just about everyone else in the world apart from the US and Israel talk to Iran. Obama should have asked why doesn't the US seem to solve any international problems, could it be because the US refused to talk to anyone or at least not until its too late. Cuba offered to negotiate with the US after the revolution, USA declined and has been declining ever since. The USA declined to talk to Fatah until Fatah was sidelined by Hamas, too late for that one. The US declined to talk to Hamas when Hamas offered negotiations after their elections. The US has declined to negotiate with Iran when Iran offered negotiations. What has declining talks ever achieved Mr McCain apart from nothing? N Korea is going back to nuclear because of US refusal to move. Yeah, not talking is a solution to everything. You might look big and tough in America Mr McCain, you look weak and shallow and another potentially pathetic Hollywood cut out in the rest of the world. McCain is seeking credit for the surge but the surge wouldn't be necessary if the stupid unnecessary war McCain supported hadn't been fought and where are the WMDs McCain? Nowhere, you are a typical warmongering cowboy Republican that thinks the only way to solve a problem is with the barrel of a gun, even when there isn't a problem. McCain, you are weak and pathetic and just more of the same.

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