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RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:19:28 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Oh you are such a bitter manPauknz. I assume you have actually lived a significant part of your life in Britain and know the relationship between those that were fucked and those fucked over. Since there hasn't been an English King for a thousand years but there has been Scottish and Welsh houses and many leading politicians have been Scotish, Welsh and Irish, I think the English could make the claim to being fucked over by the Celts. However, we aren't as bitter as you and since you are in New Zealand, it would be interesting to know where your bitterness comes from.


I expect a lot of it comes from the notion that all English people live in stately homes set in acres of gardens, derived from watching too many period dramas with sneering upper class types being horrid to their servants - and the allied misunderstanding that just because someone doesnt speak like the upper class, ergo they must be downtrodden Welsh, Scots or Irish.

My goodness, I'd love to take him out to a few pubs round the Black Country and have him pronounce on the exploitation by the natives of the other nations of these Isles.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:22:22 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Paulnz seems to hate the English as much as he hates the Americans.  I guess its because we are all "lazy, arrogant bigots who oppress the innocent so we don't have to work."  That seems to be the core of what he keeps telling us.

And, as far as the conquest of Wales, the country was pacified more by a single marriage more than all of Longshanks' castles.  My surname is from Wales and, in fact, means "one from Wales."  I spent a bit of time researching the history.  I didn't condemn the whole country as fucked over because I saw one ghetto but I did learn a bit about the past of the region.  It is one of my goals to visit Wales one of these days so I can see where we came from. 
I have a similar goal to visit Ireland and see where that part of the family came from.  Of course, I suppose that all of Ireland is fucked too.

< Message edited by Irishknight -- 10/13/2008 5:30:26 AM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:28:07 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I'd be more than pleased to accompany you IK! I'll have O'Connor (my Irish bondsman) collect you from the airport in the Bentley. We'll have tea and cucumber sandwiches ready on the lawn (prepared by McDougal my Scottish bondsman) for refreshment, served by Jones (my Welsh bondsman), prior to setting off on a tour of the conquered lands to the west, where of course the natives will remove their hats and bow low at our passing. When we weary of the day, we shall take lodgings in one of the many castles to which all English people have birthright, and amuse ourselves with a sizeable feast, served up by starving locals who will scrabble for any scraps from our table.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:31:06 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		And for that matter, who exactly are the English, are they the same people that invaded all those years ago, or are we really a mix of everyone in Britain. Yeah, I was born in England, but I have, and I have studied this, Irish, Cornish, Saxon, Norman  and  Romany ancestry. And this celt thing, the celtic people were less of an actual ethnic race, but more of a way of thinking, their migration through Europe to our shores picked up many of all nationalities along the way. This whimsical romantic idea that those born in the outlying lands surrounding Britain are celtic, is really pure crap. We are one people, and that is that, a many times mixed people, no one is pure anything.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:32:31 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I'd be more than pleased to accompany you IK! I'll have O'Connor (my Irish bondsman) collect you from the airport in the Bentley. We'll have tea and cucumber sandwiches ready on the lawn (prepared by McDougal my Scottish bondsman) for refreshment, served by Jones (my Welsh bondsman), prior to setting off on a tour of the conquered lands to the west, where of course the natives will remove their hats and bow low at our passing. When we weary of the day, we shall take lodgings in one of the many castles to which all English people have birthright, and amuse ourselves with a sizeable feast, served up by starving locals who will scrabble for any scraps from our table.

E

That would be so charming!  Can we whip some peasants?  Perhaps I could even force myself on some local village girls to improve the breed?  It sounds wonderful!

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:36:40 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		And a note to Paulnz,

Are you aware of the picture you are painting of yourself on these forums, how you are coming across ?

You are doing yourself no favours.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:38:18 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Why stop at whipping? As English, we have absolute right to take whatever we like, including life and limb as we will.

I shall have to check on the droit de seigneur as it applies to our conquest, but given the above I shouldnt think it would be a problem; after all, as uncivilised monsters its important we terrorise the locals as much as possible to keep them in their place, toiling for our wealth.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:44:06 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

And for that matter, who exactly are the English, are they the same people that invaded all those years ago, or are we really a mix of everyone in Britain. Yeah, I was born in England, but I have, and I have studied this, Irish, Cornish, Saxon, Norman  and  Romany ancestry. And this celt thing, the celtic people were less of an actual ethnic race, but more of a way of thinking, their migration through Europe to our shores picked up many of all nationalities along the way. This whimsical romantic idea that those born in the outlying lands surrounding Britain are celtic, is really pure crap. We are one people, and that is that, a many times mixed people, no one is pure anything.


The Celtic culure developed (actually become recognized by archeaologists) in what is now Germany and spread mainly west from there. The Germanic culture came from northern Europe, Scandinavia, north Germany, Holland and then spread into the Italian and Iberian pennisulas from there. Linguists now believe they have found Germanic place names in England that pre-date the Roman invasion, if that is true, that would explain the lack of evidence for the Germanic invasion of the sicth centuries as England would have already been Germanic for hundreds of years. There are big discrepencies between archaeologists and lingusitic archeaologists about the spreading of various cultures. What we think of as popular Celtic culture which people tend to mean when they discuss Celtic culture, that was a 19th century invention and more to do with nationalism than actual history of cultures.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:52:01 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Yep, the victorian revivalists, people who perhaps have created this modern celtic nationalism bullshit, and of the victorian period, it was not the peasant who created it, but the wealthy, the land owners and industrialists, those with the leisure time to muse on these romantic fancies. The victorian period to me, socially, was a very fucked up period of history.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 5:55:57 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		The English were  the first terrorist that the United States had to deal with.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:15:48 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

The English were  the first terrorist that the United States had to deal with.


No, Americans or at least the colonists were the first terroists the British had to deal with. The 1812 war, if that is what you are referring to, was started by the US with an attempted invasion of Canada.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/13/2008 6:16:19 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:17:11 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Hey!!!  One man's terrorist is another man's bloodthirsty cutthroat.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:18:43 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yep, the victorian revivalists, people who perhaps have created this modern celtic nationalism bullshit, and of the victorian period, it was not the peasant who created it, but the wealthy, the land owners and industrialists, those with the leisure time to muse on these romantic fancies. The victorian period to me, socially, was a very fucked up period of history.


Laissez faire capitalism is what you are talking about I think.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:19:43 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Hey!!!  One man's terrorist is another man's bloodthirsty cutthroat.


We have forgiven the colonists a long time ago but they were rebels, don't you agree?

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:20:24 AM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline 		I see paulwxyz shut his kiwi hole when people call him out. How charming. Lady Ellen, You should make your sojourn with IrishKnight a tour of the hinterlands.

_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:26:25 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		well, in fairness even he has to sleep sometime - though I'm sure he'd likely tell us that like all good New Zealanders he regards sleep as a weakness inherited from lazy European culture

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:34:59 AM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

well, in fairness even he has to sleep sometime - though I'm sure he'd likely tell us that like all good New Zealanders he regards sleep as a weakness inherited from lazy European culture

E


hahahaha. Sleep? who needs it.


_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:41:10 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Hey!!!  One man's terrorist is another man's bloodthirsty cutthroat.


We have forgiven the colonists a long time ago but they were rebels, don't you agree?

I neversaid they weren't.  However, I don't see rebelling against unjust governance as bad.  We should see a bit more of that today.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 6:57:52 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Hey!!!  One man's terrorist is another man's bloodthirsty cutthroat.


We have forgiven the colonists a long time ago but they were rebels, don't you agree?

I neversaid they weren't.  However, I don't see rebelling against unjust governance as bad.  We should see a bit more of that today.


Hmm. I think you will find that the war of independence was more about the colonies' establishment wanting to consolidate their power than them caring about the ordicary colonist. The founding fathers gave less representation to the new citizens of the colony than they had before. The economy of the colonies also took a dive post independence and the war was as much a civil war as against the British per se. Like all national myths, none stand up to scrutiny.

However, according to the British shadow minister on return from Afghanistan, he said a large portion of the Taliban are fighting the injustices and corruption of the western backed regime in Kabul and are not Al Qeada led fighters. As you pointed out earlier, it depends which side you are on and terrorism is just a label aportioned by an enemy.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Independence for Wales - NOW! - 10/13/2008 7:05:03 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Amazingly, you have rewritten history once again.  Can you go back in time to stop my wifefrom writing all of those hot checks?  Please?
I won't argue American history with you because I don't believe that you could ever see or listen to anything not made up by those who hate America.  Your own past statements have shown a need to deny any good that America has done in the past and a pathological need to put down all things American.  You are a sad, bigotted little man.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 100
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