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RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 3:47:39 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Umm....Did you just call him Dear John?


Yeah i did...but come to think of it, he doesnt look a thing like Judd Hirsch

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 3:55:12 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

Dear John...
People need to vent. Even the most domliest of dominants...such as yourself (altho i would need to search for you venting and i bet the server may have "somehow" eaten that morsel of truth)
Actually i have been dying to say that for a looooong time. Tonite was your nite...Thank you for playing along. *smooches the Domliest of all Dominants*

perse
(she knows cuz she perved you last nite)


Puhleeeze.... I utterly reject any portrayal of me as anything other than average.  It's easy to have an unrealistic perception of someone via the internet, which is limited in its ability to adequately convey us in all our complexities.
 
John


Puhleeze yourself...Sir. i happen to have read every blessed word of that thing and i think that you are marvelous.

That being said, lest someone say im hijacking...lets review what you said.
You were addressing the fundamental nature of Mastery...this particular Master was having a crisis of conscience related to having to give an ultimatum that would serve the dynamic but selfishly would not serve his best interest....what to do...what to do...
Long ago there was a chubby lil girl who only referred to herself as a lowly bottom...out of respect to submissives everywhere across the globe....she got over herself, slapped submissive on her profile and stopped getting all the gross mail and started having discussions with men of integrity...sorta...this is CM dontchaknow....

my point, and i do have one...is that while it is a fundamental tenant of D/s that there be a Master and a slave...Dom/sub....sometimes serving the best interest of the dynamic doesnt coincide with what either party might really want...in this case, an unfortunate ultimatum...lets help the man decide what to do...shall we?

(wow, im soooo unruly tonite....someone needs a spanking...)

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:02:36 PM   
DogGoneBad


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad
This is a new relationship.  I did express my expectation already, this is why I debate about ending it instead of giving an ultimatum.

Simple question: You give her the ultimatum. Will she respect it?

I suspect she will honor it.  I suspect she will become resentful.  I know if I end things that she will take it bad.  If it continues onward like this, I'm going to become resentful.

I suspect you have your answer on what to do.

What comes next is your choice.

Heartbreak or growing resentment.  I do not want her to resent me.  I do not want to resent her.  Perhaps laying out the ultimatum and suggesting a peaceful ending now, if it means resentment will take hold.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:13:14 PM   
laura2161


Posts: 254
Joined: 3/8/2008
From: Duluth, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad
This is a new relationship.  I did express my expectation already, this is why I debate about ending it instead of giving an ultimatum.

Simple question: You give her the ultimatum. Will she respect it?

I suspect she will honor it.  I suspect she will become resentful.  I know if I end things that she will take it bad.  If it continues onward like this, I'm going to become resentful.


So she honors the ultimatum and becomes resentful. Strike one.

You continue on as it stands now and you become resentful. Strike two

I think you have your answer already. On a personal note staying together because 'she will take it bad' will only make things worse and even harder down the line when you finally say enough is enough. IF you are going to end it, better to do it now then after any more time goes by. You are not helping her by staying if you're not happy.

Ugh...I'm much too tired- Edited for typos.


< Message edited by laura2161 -- 12/3/2008 4:15:28 PM >

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(in reply to DogGoneBad)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:18:24 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Concentrating on the issue in this thread....

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

my point, and i do have one...is that while it is a fundamental tenant of D/s that there be a Master and a slave...Dom/sub....sometimes serving the best interest of the dynamic doesnt coincide with what either party might really want...in this case, an unfortunate ultimatum...


If he is to *be* Master, he has to begin by acting like Master.  If he wants to make a choice that's in his own best interest rather than her best interest or the best interest of the relationship, so be it.  That's his perogative.  If he wants to do what is best for the relationship at the expense of his own best interest, that is also his choice.  And finally, if he wants to serve her interests, at the expense of the relationship and his own best interest, that too is up to him.

The point is, no matter what he decides, no matter what reasoning he uses.... HE has to decide (not us).  And in doing so, no matter what his decision, he has reinforced the dynamic.  And he is, literally, Master.
 
That's really my point.  Though I was much less verbose in my initial post.  When you get brevity from me, accept it happily.  ;)

quote:


lets help the man decide what to do...shall we?


If he needs someone to reinforce the fact that he can make this decision, and by doing so he's fulfilling his obligation to a power exchange dynamic, by all means let's help him.  But if helping him means making the decision for him, or advocating what he *should* decide, then we are (in my opinion) doing him a great disservice.
 
He knows the issues.  He knows the consequences to those issues.  He expressed them very well.  He just doesn't want to decide.  Well, I'm not going to do that for him.

quote:


(wow, im soooo unruly tonite....someone needs a spanking...)


I'm sure there are ample volunteers. ;)
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:19:30 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Am I the only one in the dark about the details of this?  This thread's gone 2 pages now and I haven't the foggiest clue what the vagaries of the original post reference.  If I have missed something, please alert me, I'll acknowledge it and apologize for my error, find the requisite info, and try to say something useful.  Otherwise, for the love of god, more details, please.  What exactly is the issue?  I'm just indulging in more verbal masturbation than usual if I only go with the info in the original post. 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to laura2161)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:20:58 PM   
simpleplan2


Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline 		It's a conspiracy...you are, in fact, the only one who doesn't know.

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:24:49 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Am I the only one in the dark about the details of this?  This thread's gone 2 pages now and I haven't the foggiest clue what the vagaries of the original post reference. 


Nope, you're not the only one.  I'm confused as to how everyone can answer to this knowing basically nothing about what the OP is refering to.

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:27:35 PM   
laura2161


Posts: 254
Joined: 3/8/2008
From: Duluth, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2

It's a conspiracy...you are, in fact, the only one who doesn't know.


Hhaahahah. Made me chuckle out loud. :-)


_____________________________

'I am not infantile, You StinkyButt Poophead!'

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:28:54 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2

It's a conspiracy...you are, in fact, the only one who doesn't know.


So, I should start hearing the X-Files theme music any second then, right?  Hey, someone send meDavid Duchovny....  :>
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to simpleplan2)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:30:43 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
Am I the only one in the dark about the details of this?  This thread's gone 2 pages now and I haven't the foggiest clue what the vagaries of the original post reference. 

Nope, you're not the only one.  I'm confused as to how everyone can answer to this knowing basically nothing about what the OP is refering to.


Oh, thank goodness; there were so many firm assertions that I was sure that I was brain-addled enough from the day to have missed something. 
  Davan
(Who still requests that someone send David Duchovny to me post haste)

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:32:02 PM   
simpleplan2


Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline 		I would, but David is having dinner with me right now :)  Um...we may just be awhile.

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:33:57 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		An ultimatum usually gets a goodbye. Most of us don't respond well to this kind of adversarial relationship.

With that said, as this is a new relationship I don't think an ultimatum is appropriate. What is appropriate is to say that you hadn't realized prior to this issue that you were fundamentally incompatible. Because you need to realize she isn't doing this just to spite you, she simply feels very differently than you do on the subject. And as that is so, there doesn't appear to be a win/win situation. Either she gives up something important to her, which will make her resent you or you give in and are unhappy.

Next time, take the time before going exclusive to talk more and play less. Figure out ahead of time what you cannot compromise on. Do some soul searching while single to determine your must haves and your deal breakers. And talk to potential partners about theirs. If they don't know what they are, then that may be a warning sign of rough times ahead.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:39:31 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2
I would, but David is having dinner with me right now :)  Um...we may just be awhile.


Take your time, then send him along.  :> 
Davan
(Who figures that since verbal masturbation is the fare, she may as well order up hot men for potential future use in non-verbal forms)

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 12/3/2008 4:42:35 PM >

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to simpleplan2)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:41:35 PM   
bamabbwsub


Posts: 566
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

So she honors the ultimatum and becomes resentful. Strike one.

You continue on as it stands now and you become resentful. Strike two


I think Laura has it right. If you're at a place where an ultimatum must be issued, then there will be no winners. Someone will be unhappy. Whether it's unhappy and resentful or *just* unhappy is something to consider.

Add in the D/s dynamic as Rover has stated -- if you're the Dom/Master/whatever, then she should do as you require. If, however, you know it's a deal-breaker for her but insist on it anyway, then she might ask to be released.

It truly is difficult to know with the scant information given. I wish you the best with your decision.

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

(in reply to simpleplan2)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:43:26 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		Ultimatums tend to not work in the end.. if you're willing to put one out there and deal with the consequences, you might as well just end it now... ultimatums aren't good -- by that time, its probably over... good luck

quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad

I've been debating about laying down an ultimatum or ending things.  The issue this is over is one that I can not deal with anymore.  She is aware that I have a problem over this issue.  I thought the issue was resolved on her end. Last night during a phone conversation she brought up the fact it was still going on.

If I make the decision to end things, it will be final.  There will be no second chances or turning back.  If I lay down an ultimatum it gives her one last opportunity or chance. 

I can not press forward in the relationship as long as this is still going on.  In fact, I will end up emotionally detaching from her.  She has not taken this issue as a serious matter.


_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to DogGoneBad)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:46:45 PM   
DogGoneBad


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Concentrating on the issue in this thread....

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

my point, and i do have one...is that while it is a fundamental tenant of D/s that there be a Master and a slave...Dom/sub....sometimes serving the best interest of the dynamic doesnt coincide with what either party might really want...in this case, an unfortunate ultimatum...


If he is to *be* Master, he has to begin by acting like Master.  If he wants to make a choice that's in his own best interest rather than her best interest or the best interest of the relationship, so be it.  That's his perogative.  If he wants to do what is best for the relationship at the expense of his own best interest, that is also his choice.  And finally, if he wants to serve her interests, at the expense of the relationship and his own best interest, that too is up to him.

The point is, no matter what he decides, no matter what reasoning he uses.... HE has to decide (not us).  And in doing so, no matter what his decision, he has reinforced the dynamic.  And he is, literally, Master.
 
That's really my point.  Though I was much less verbose in my initial post.  When you get brevity from me, accept it happily.  ;)

quote:


lets help the man decide what to do...shall we?


If he needs someone to reinforce the fact that he can make this decision, and by doing so he's fulfilling his obligation to a power exchange dynamic, by all means let's help him.  But if helping him means making the decision for him, or advocating what he *should* decide, then we are (in my opinion) doing him a great disservice.
 
He knows the issues.  He knows the consequences to those issues.  He expressed them very well.  He just doesn't want to decide.  Well, I'm not going to do that for him.

quote:


(wow, im soooo unruly tonite....someone needs a spanking...)


I'm sure there are ample volunteers. ;)
 
John

I'm using this thread as sounding board for careful thought.  Ending a relationship or giving an ultimatum is very serious business. How one goes about laying down an ultimatum or ending things requires equal careful thought.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:47:44 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2

I would, but David is having dinner with me right now :)  Um...we may just be awhile.<----


The truth is out there but it's not in there.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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(in reply to simpleplan2)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 4:57:50 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2
I would, but David is having dinner with me right now :)  Um...we may just be awhile.


Take your time, then send him along.  :> 
Davan
(Who figures that since verbal masturbation is the fare, she may as well order up hot men for potential future use in non-verbal forms)


What...no women???...*mutters...not very poly, now is she?*

harumph
perse

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/3/2008 5:15:39 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Firstly I applaud the OP for having the balls to air his thoughts here. I see it not as a Dominant at thew cross woirds but a dominant voicing his choices and their likely results. It matters not what any of us say for if he be a Master he will make up his own mind and stand behind his decision.

In my world, a Man is a Man and he alone make such decisions. He alone has the dream and sets sail on the course he has chosen to achieve his dereams. His crew follow and do not attempt tp pervert the course he has set. There will be storms and there will be rocks. he alone will strat his vessel through the former and arond the latter. It may be he will become ship wrecked and if so he will learn, repair his ship, take on extra crew if necessary and carry on towards his goal. Should there be discention and even bloody mutiny, he must cast off those who cause disruption even though they be close to his heart and replace them at the  next port of call..


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 40
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