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RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 6:13:05 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

Perhaps because its none of your business what the OP is talking about ... ?





But for the fact that he posted it on a public thread, I'd think you a genius but, alas....
Davan


Hmm, except that he hasn't posted the details you seem to think are so vital for your well being ... Guess maybe that means he doesn't think its any of your business, perhaps? Or maybe he doesn't care to hear your opinion after all. I know that may come as a shock, you being so self-important and all ...



Perhaps if you read through the thread you'd see that my voice is not the only one that has pointed out to the gentleman that more information is needed to render an opinion.  Vagaries can only beget speculation; that has nothing to do with really working on an actual issue, it's usually self-serving.  It hasn't the tiniest thing to do with my well-being, dear, I couldn't care less about the poster though I did have the intent of attempting to offer an opinion as I'd endeavor to assist any fellow human being asking for it.  At this point, I'm considering this thread an interesting social experiment as it isn't, on its face, at least, going anywhere in terms of feedback on an actual but rather hypothetical problem.  I will reiterate that if he didn't think it public business, he ought not bring it to a public forum.  Oh, and, doll, take a look in the mirror regarding the flaw of self-importance.  :>
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 12/9/2008 6:28:19 AM >

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to opposingtwilight)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 6:14:45 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Hmmmmm, perse----
I just can't conceptualize him as dominant; it doesn't work in my brain but that doesn't mean we can't each have our scenarios!  :> 
Hope your week's going well! 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 6:18:17 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
But for the fact that he posted it on a public thread, I'd think you a genius but, alas....
Davan

I'm not going to take a position about this particular threadfight... but, Davan?  OpposingTwilight is a genius.



You involved yourself via your interjection.  It's no fight as there is no sport in it; the proposed adversary, despite your admiration of her, doesn't worry me the least in terms of superceding my intellectual base. 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 7:58:05 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Wow.  I don't think my "intellectual base" is threatened when people say I made a mistake.  I want people in my life who point out errors I make... and I want people in my life with life histories significantly different from my own.

You might consider stepping away from the computer.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 9:09:39 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Wow.  I don't think my "intellectual base" is threatened when people say I made a mistake.  I want people in my life who point out errors I make... and I want people in my life with life histories significantly different from my own.

You might consider stepping away from the computer.



You misread what I wrote: I responded to your assertion of her genius with the assertion of my intellectual base not being threatened:.  Hope that clarifies for you.  If not, feel free to ask a question.   
I too, value people offeirng their opinions and I value differing opinions from my own unto themselves.  I also surround myself with people whose life hisotires vary vastly from my own; the distinctions are what make people unique and precious.  What I do not value is someone making a bratty comment, complete with emoticon when they've done nothing to attempt to contribute positively (Not you, the female you expressed admiration for).  Sooooo, based on your misinterpretation of what I said, perhaps you may wish to rescind your little suggestion at the end of your reply.  Or not.  Either way, this entire thread remains an exercise in, at best, philosophy, as the op hasn't given details, just vagaries. 
I can throw vague statements up all day long and use such vagary as a way to manipulate or obfuscate; that isn't productive.  The op hasn't given anyone details with which to work, so again, the entire thread (Sans comic relief of various sorts) is an exercise in hypotheticals as what he stated/queried initially does not lean to an absolute answer unto itself: hence, the multiple requests by myself and others for more information. 
Davan


< Message edited by DavanKael -- 12/9/2008 10:00:59 AM >

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 10:04:17 AM   
DogGoneBad


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

Perhaps because its none of your business what the OP is talking about ... ?





But for the fact that he posted it on a public thread, I'd think you a genius but, alas....
Davan


Hmm, except that he hasn't posted the details you seem to think are so vital for your well being ... Guess maybe that means he doesn't think its any of your business, perhaps? Or maybe he doesn't care to hear your opinion after all. I know that may come as a shock, you being so self-important and all ...

This sort of sums it up for me.

(in reply to opposingtwilight)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 10:35:51 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds like you are upset or angry at having to make a hard decision about a relationship you value.  It appears your sub has placed you between a rock and a hard place and there is no way to resolve this without someone resenting someone because they had to change something fundamental to their happiness.  i would suggest that you communicate - after the emotions have settled down - and talk this out with her.  This way she will walk away at least feeling valued - no one feels valued when issued an ultimatum.  You can tell her exactly what you told us, that you feel this situation is a no win one for the both of you and that that troubles you because you care deeply about her (i assume you do or this whole issue would be a mute point).  Maybe in the end you will have to walk away but at least you will have given it your best shot.  

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to DogGoneBad)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 11:01:50 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

Perhaps because its none of your business what the OP is talking about ... ?





Huh? 

The OP didn't come out and ask us to philosophize.  He put his situation out there in the vaguest possible terms without giving the readers the gist of what his situation is, and then asked for opinions on whether or not he should end "it".  I was one of the posters who wouldn't answer because I felt like I was in the dark. 

If you're going to come out to a public board with a problem and actually entertain the opinions of strangers about something as important as ending a relationship, it shouldn't be that odd that people might ask for more details before rendering an opinion.  Of course it's his prerogative to not give more info if he doesn't want to, but it's certainly not out of line, in this situation, for someone to seek clarification before giving a response.

(in reply to opposingtwilight)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 11:04:04 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

...I can throw vague statements up all day long and use such vagary as a way to manipulate or obfuscate; that isn't productive. The op hasn't given anyone details with which to work, so again, the entire thread (Sans comic relief of various sorts) is an exercise in hypotheticals...


Sometimes people post things that are very vague, yet in their follow-up replies you glean that they are really thinking and focusing and talking about something very specific; but since they aren't sharing key bits of information, the conversation amounts to fruitless stabs in the dark.
That can be frustrating.

On the other hand, though, you can talk in generalities and still have a productive conversation. You can talk about feelings and stuff, for example, without giving all of the content. (There's even such a thing as "contentless therapy"...I forget how that works, exactly, tho...)

I like what some people have said here about ultimatums, for instance.

Sure, replies are likely to be very hit-or-miss (and many posters include some little caveat to that effect), but it's up to the OP to understand that or not.


< Message edited by Jeptha -- 12/9/2008 11:08:01 AM >

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 11:05:51 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Next time, will someone please shoot me a cmail when a thread degenerates into a food fight?  Please? 

I have found that most people who issue ultimatums are not prepared for the result. 


Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 11:13:39 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		It appears to me that she is hoping he WILL issue an ultimatum, so she can say "bu bye!"

It really is a very passive agressive way to end a relationship, from either side.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/9/2008 11:14:25 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 2:23:28 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad

quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

Perhaps because its none of your business what the OP is talking about ... ?





But for the fact that he posted it on a public thread, I'd think you a genius but, alas....
Davan


Hmm, except that he hasn't posted the details you seem to think are so vital for your well being ... Guess maybe that means he doesn't think its any of your business, perhaps? Or maybe he doesn't care to hear your opinion after all. I know that may come as a shock, you being so self-important and all ...

This sort of sums it up for me.


Checked out this individual's profile; very vague and very recent...skeptical off the bat.  Dude, you started a thread on a public forum and as another male I once knew was apt to say, you take what you get when you post on a public forum. 
Rather pathetic, too, that a supposed dominant needs a bratty girl to articulate his thoughts rather than being willing to articulate them for himself. 
And, again, there are a bunch of people on here aside from me who have asked you for more information in an attempt to help you.  You evidence a tremendous lack of grace in your failure to acknowledge the positive intents of others.  Your situation doesn't have any meaning in my life (Unless you're someone I know being duplicitous) nor in the lives of most of the others who asked for more information in an attempt to help you to man up. 
Troglodites bore me < yawn >,
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to DogGoneBad)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 2:44:52 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		OMG.  I am so done playing nice.

According to your own profile, DavanKael, you have a "post-Masters level education."  Combine that phrase with your condescension to those you consider less intelligent, and what it means to me is, "I was ABD but didn't have the tenacity to finish, so I console myself by sounding more intelligent than the people around me."

Well, by golly, you can probably sound so smart, you already know that the word "paralepsis" means "saying there's no need to mention something, to provide rhetorical effect."  Hey!  I can sound smart too!  Look: "I am sure there is no reason to point out that you misspelled the word 'troglodyte,' because it was a simple typo, not an ironic example of pseudo-intellectualism."

People impress me by acting smart, not by sounding smart.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 3:21:49 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I just have to admit that I don't know what either ahhhhhh....... aaaaaa........paralepsis or a troglodyte, even IS!!!

Call me an unedu-ma-cated edjut.

Although, in retrospect, a troglodyte sounds like some kind of fossil......or dinosaur.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/9/2008 3:25:27 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 3:29:19 PM   
DogGoneBad


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not breaking down and sharing any details in this post.  It's apparent the message board paparazzis here love to bully for gossip and entertainment. There were no attempts at private message exchanges, instead there was a lot of snarky attempts trying to entice me into giving up details.  It did not take rocket science for opposingtwilight to notice this either. 

There are self appointed VIP message board paparazzis which feel the need to be center of attention at the expense of others.  I'm certain David Duchovny or Brandon Fraser have more interesting lives to pry into and gossip about anyways. 

A number of people made thoughtful considerate posts while respecting privacy. Some of those posts were the best ones for any real advice.  I have a mind of my own, I can read and take things into consideration.

(in reply to DogGoneBad)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 3:31:06 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Who is David Duchonvy and Brandon Fraser? 

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DogGoneBad)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 3:39:29 PM   
DogGoneBad


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline 		I don't want any more advice on this matter.  I did not end things or give her an ultimatum, and I did not play the dom card on her. This thread is not worth anybodys time and energy at this point.

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 3:54:25 PM   
simpleplan2


Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline 		Come on.  Brandon Fraser was in the Mummy movies...Return to the Center of the Earth, Bedazzled...he's just a total cutie.  David, on the other hand, is in x files

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 8:54:58 PM   
DogGoneBad


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SunNMoon

Considering that the details haven’t been posted, I’m going to go with a gut reaction.

If you feel that you have to give an ultimatum to save the relationship is the relationship worth saving? If you answer yes then you both need to sit down and talk this through so you are both happy in the relationship (since I’m assuming no one’s forcing either party to be in it). If no, well then just end it already and save yourself the pain of dragging it out.


Thank you for such an insightful yes/no thought process.  Yes, I was thinking about using an ultimatum as a means to save the relationship.  No, I sincerely did not want to end it.  I found myself lost in a world of crappy thoughts late a night and started this thread.  I actually just reread my own posts and I can honestly say, I was in a bad frame of mind at the time.

(in reply to SunNMoon)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Ultimatum or end it - 12/9/2008 8:57:00 PM   
DogGoneBad


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad

I've been debating about laying down an ultimatum or ending things.  The issue this is over is one that I can not deal with anymore.  She is aware that I have a problem over this issue.  I thought the issue was resolved on her end. Last night during a phone conversation she brought up the fact it was still going on.

If I make the decision to end things, it will be final.  There will be no second chances or turning back.  If I lay down an ultimatum it gives her one last opportunity or chance. 

I can not press forward in the relationship as long as this is still going on.  In fact, I will end up emotionally detaching from her.  She has not taken this issue as a serious matter.


Here's the problem... I can't, I can't, I can't... instead of saying I can not, don't. This wouldn't be difficult if it weren't for the fact that instead of giving her one more chance, it sounds like you're giving yourself one more chance with her. Others may find ultimatums useful. I don't. I think they're basically bullshit since by the time they're uttered, shouted or scrawled across electronic paper, someone is on the verge of walking away anyway. I think if you have to lay them down, one of the two of you is missing some basic communication, and I don't necessarily mean her.

Seems simple to me. If you can't, don't. If you're going to, then stop with the can not crap and do what it takes to either get your point across or get the walking away thing started.

Thank you for this post.

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 140
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